deal at the wsop main event final table

[Konidias 0]

After watching the final hand... I would have to say that given Dannenman's skill, he felt that Hachem was on a draw or top pair on the flop. There was a flush draw and a straight draw out there after the turn, right?I'm sure Dannenman though "hey, top pair of aces and a straight draw, there's no way this guy has the straight, so I'm probably ahead with my ace pair, plus I have the straight draw as well just in case".I really don't think there was any deal. They were mostly all donkeys anyway. Especially Kanter. Wow, what a donk.

[CFVPoker 0]

Especially Kanter. Wow, what a donk.

But one extremely lucky donk.

[THOAAG 0]

You've also got to put a fatigue factor into cosideration. It was 6 am or so when they were heads up, and they had been playing for 12 hours or so already at the final table.

[badasmybreath 0]

You've also got to put a fatigue factor into cosideration.  It was 6 am or so when they were heads up, and they had been playing for 12 hours or so already at the final table.

You guys overestimate the true "test of strength" (mental AND physical)that 12 hours of poker represents. 12 hours is nothing. I myself have played for a bit over 18 hours str8 in a live tourney i won, started at 2pm and i was able to go out afetrwards for a celebratory breakfast. Its not like were talking about some sort of grueling athletic contest here....u sit and play cards, and if concentrating gets to be that hard pop some rittles geeeeez... If someone is seriously gonna be ready to dump a chance at 7.5m just because theyre a little tired...wow...

[LAS22 0]

I don't see there being a deal, especially with the huge chip lead that Hachem had. He was like 3 or 4 to 1 over Danneman. Regardless, I think the bracelet meant more to Hatchem, Danneman was just happy to be there (as he said so many times).

[NJPoker 0]

There may have been a deal, but I think both guys were playing their best on the final hand. If you're Dannenman, are you really expecting Hachem to play 7-3 for a raise? Small raise, final table, etc...I don't care. If I'm holding 7-3 and there is a raise in front of me, then I fold. I think Dannenman thought his Ace was good, and he was probably certain Hachem wasn't holding 7-3. Also, 12 hours might not seem to bad, but do that continuously over a week. Then add in the TV camera's, makeup crew, lights, crowd, etc and it could be mentally draining. None of us have ever been in that situation, but I have to imagine it's not like your normal home game.

[Azwethinkweiz 0]

Joe had over 38 million to Steve's 17million (approx.).Plain and simple, these are two new faces to the poker world. to be frank they are novice players(though Joe has a mean game). Steve had top pair with an open ended straight draw. It is heads-up. He just took a pot off of Joe with J6. It was not rigged. Coupling Steve's easy going approach, making it further then he expected, and poker story's past, he had enough to determine that he would put it all on the line.This pocket cam makes everyone talk like they would handle the situation any better. I'm pretty confident that over 3/4th's of you, in that situation(without a card cam on tv), with top pair and open both ways to the straight would have a hard time getting away from it. Steve was on cloud nine with his performance. he was happy with his decision. all that matters.Would it have been awesome if he could have got away from that happen, absolutely. But that's how it rolled.

[lightingguy 0]

As far as a deal is concerned, with second winning as much as they did, I would doubt the need for one. I do think that alot of people are underestimating Dannenmans level of skill. Obviously, there is not enough televised to really gauge this, but I think his whole "I'm just happy to be here" personality was part of his game. I'm also guessing he is not just the 4th or 5th best player in his home game. I know I wouldn't stake the 4th best player in my home game $5000. He also took 5th in the TOC at Ceasar's. He must be at least somewhat solid.Off the subject, if you haven't heard about what he did to Hellmuth at the TOC, make sure you watch on Dec. 24. Too funny.

[Jesse Jersey 0]

No way there was a deal. Think about it. Both players are assured at least second-place money. What was that $3.5 - 4 million? But winning brings prestige, endorsement deals, etc. Second place will be forgotten 3 years from now. Who finished second to Varkoni?Oh, by the way, the Mafia killed Kennedy.

[koolromeo 0]

Hachem pointed at him and said, "You da man" This was right after the cards were flipped.  By his body language it seemed like he was saying we are splitting the money. Thank you for letting me take credit for winning, even though the money has been pre determined."You da man" thank you for moving in when you know you were probably beat but it looks ok for the cameras!

Why would hachem split the cash with such a toolkit? Anyone on this forum could take danneman for what he is worth, come on.....

i don't think it would be as easy as you think to beat steve. having to call all in bets when you have a semi strong hand is tough. ask andrew black about it. steve played his game well, which was playing huge pots against better players. i'd make a deal in a second if it guaranteed me an axtra million or 2.

[CrAcKeDaCeS 0]

No way there was a deal.  Think about it.  Both players are assured at least second-place money.   What was that $3.5 - 4 million?  But winning brings prestige, endorsement deals, etc.  Second place will be forgotten 3 years from now.  Who finished second to Varkoni?Oh, by the way, the Mafia killed Kennedy.

Julian Gardner.

[healeydays 0]

No way there was a deal.  Think about it.  Both players are assured at least second-place money.   What was that $3.5 - 4 million?  But winning brings prestige, endorsement deals, etc.  Second place will be forgotten 3 years from now.  Who finished second to Varkoni?

That could also be the reason. He might not have wanted the noteriety. Not every megabucks winner wants the spotlight and maybe he's one that was just as happy with 1/2 of the 2nd place prize and go back to his home life. Also, wasn't there a couple articles about the taxes Hachem owed the australian government getting into detail how much he took home? I thought it was the full amount.JMHO...

[Entrepeneur 0]

There certainly could have been a deal. That's a good question.1st place 7.5 million2nd place 4.25 millionTotal 11.75 millionA typical chop in this situation would probably be 5 million each and the winner takes the extra 1.75 million AND the bracelet.The chop has nothing to do with how hard they play per se. It's just agreeing about the money.Both of those guys are completely aware of the prestige and money that comes with the bracelet. Neither of them would blow a hand. That's not what the chop is talking about. It's just guaranteeing them both 5 million.First place has a LOT of endorsement benefits as well as buyins for major tournaments. Celebrity tournaments. Fundraisers and all of that. Just check out Greg Raymer's site about where he's playing and notice his face on the commercials on TV.Just happy to be there..sure...happy to be this far...sure..ready to completely blow it after that many days of laying down hands that weren't the winners. No...I think he wanted to win. Besides, he's chopping his half with his friend, isn't he? (thought they said that on tv).Knowing how big of a deal the bracelet is, no way would they blow the game. Chop the money..Yes..Give up the bracelet without what you think is the best hand or drawing to the best hand with plenty of outs...Nope.just my 10 centsBy the way..does it seem surreal when you type 7.5million and think about that. Raymer talks about what he took home on his sight straighforward."hacker" from Nashville, TN.

[CaneBrain 95]

No way there was a deal.  Think about it.  Both players are assured at least second-place money.   What was that $3.5 - 4 million?  But winning brings prestige, endorsement deals, etc.  Second place will be forgotten 3 years from now.  Who finished second to Varkoni?Oh, by the way, the Mafia killed Kennedy.

Julian Gardner finished 2nd to Varkonyi.

[CaneBrain 95]

You've also got to put a fatigue factor into cosideration.  It was 6 am or so when they were heads up, and they had been playing for 12 hours or so already at the final table.

You guys overestimate the true "test of strength" (mental AND physical)that 12 hours of poker represents. 12 hours is nothing. I myself have played for a bit over 18 hours str8 in a live tourney i won, started at 2pm and i was able to go out afetrwards for a celebratory breakfast. Its not like were talking about some sort of grueling athletic contest here....u sit and play cards, and if concentrating gets to be that hard pop some rittles geeeeez... If someone is seriously gonna be ready to dump a chance at 7.5m just because theyre a little tired...wow...

this would be a great insight except you forget that they had been playing in the most instense tournament poker setting possible for several days before the very long final table.i would be stunned if fatigue was not at least a factor.

[ajs1281 0]

I could see the deal being something likeDannenman locking in for 5Hachem locking in for 5.5Play it out for the final 1.25 and the bracelet

[brian67 0]

I highly doubt a deal was struck. Hachem had the chip lead, and he was clearly the more experienced player. It also wasn't like second place was going to leave anyone poor either. Whatever table talk you thought was fishy was probably just talk. nothing more.

[Norhas99 0]

Also, wasn't there a couple articles about the taxes Hachem owed the australian government getting into detail how much he took home?  I thought it was the full amount.JMHO...

Huh?

[mcpickl 0]

Just watching the replay and definitely believe there had to be a deal.There seemed to be no life in the crowd when Danneneman won his hand, even his family seemed resigned to whatever the deal was.  Danneman even acknowledges "a large bet" then raises and waits for Hatchem to come over the top on him and still calls, pretty much seeming to know he was behind. Danneman just seemed happy it was over and Hatchem didnt get too excited when he knew the worst he could do was chop or be the world champ.

So you're saying that not only was there a deal, but Danneman told his family about the deal, and his family in turn told the crowd so there was no excitement when Danneman won his hand?That doesn't sound silly to you?

[Longshanks 0]

they probably did have a deal, but not whos gonna win the bracelet, they couldent script that, they both seemed jovial and second place wasent that bad

[offmandh 0]

While reading your various agruments, i was pretty sure there was no deal and that dannenman was just being a goof, but then i remembered somehting that made me change my mind. That guy who was going to get 50% of the winnings left far before the tourny was over. Who in the world would leave to take a nap when their guy is still playing fora 3 million dollar difference in prize money. way too fishy. i am convinced that there was a deal after remembering this fact.

[brian67 0]

What's even more likely is that they were both extremely tired and stressed out from a week straight of poker. The second place money was still quite good, and both players probably were just ready to get it over with and rest.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Plain and simple, these are two new faces to the poker world. to be frank they are novice players(though Joe has a mean game).

uhhh, joe hachem is not a novice at all. He has been an australian pro for a while now

[6foot3 0]

I listened to the final table commentary live via CP. There were no breaks for discussion and the tourney continued until 6am, a 17 hour run. ESPN did not show how Dannenmen lost his chip lead. A highly edited heads up play. This does not mean they did not strike a deal on one of the scheduled breaks, but live play there were no such conversations.

[sjm20 0]

I, for one, enjoyed this final table a LOT more than watching last years. I love Raymer's style, but it was so nice watching 9 guys play cards. Even Matusow handled himself very very well. Nobody was screaming for cards, nobody was berating other players, it was a very nice and professionally played table.As far as the deal, you're right that there probably was one. But let's face it, as soon as they got to heads up the first thing I said to myself was "this guy has no chance". On another note, does anyone else think that Danneman is going to get signed somewhere. This guy has to be better for poker than Moneymaker. Especially since they made him out to be a homegame player. He didn't wear sunglasses, his poker stare looked like somebody wrote it out for him. This guy might increase the number of people that play next year all by himself. Think about it, Moneymaker had to win an online tournament to gain entry. This guy had a friend split the cost with him. Played like an amateur (no offense because I wish I could run that good) and still had a fantastic main event. He reminds me a lot of "Country" the year that Carlos Mortenson won the thing. Just a friendly guy having fun, trying to make the rent. I LOVED ITjust my random thoughts, once again I missed the final table thread - damn college!