anyone else not winning at poker?

[bcook823 0]

Well thought out informative post. I just disagree. I know many players who are winners live and not online, and vice versa. I am a winning player for over 3 years live, so thats certainly not a rush. You say it takes one year to gauge what one's win rate may be live. While that may be true, by your own reasoning, if you can play 4x the hands online, then you can measure your win rate in 3 months? 4x would be the minimum if one is playing 3 tables. Its more like 6-8 times.

No problem disagreeing. The year factor I threw out there was just a guess (I dont feel like doing the math lol) and it really depends on how many hours you play. But in online play you need to rack up about 10000 hands at a minimum to really get a grip on how you are doing (100,000 is what I would recommend). Not sure how that translates into live play. All casual live players have played far fewer hands that online players. With the smaller sample size, they are probably not nearly as good (or bad) as they think.Not saying this is you, but what I find most from live players is that they are very poor record keepers. I have a spreadsheet (thanks excel) where I count not only my raw win/loss for the day, but I also have column for food and gas, and the clock starts running when I leave the house for the casino and doesnt stop until I get home. I pay for all drinks and tips with chips from the table so thats counted in the raw win/loss column. Once you start doing that you notice a big effect on your win rate. This is a big reason why some live players dont tip (cheap bastards). They've done the math. They know it has a big effect on their win rate.Now in contrast with online play, things are much different. They provide EXACT record keeping with that nice little dollar number in your profile. There is no way to fudge the numbers. So you know exactly, without a doubt, if you are winning or losing. All players, both online and live, have short term memories. They always remember their most recent sessions the best. The difference with the online players is that they see that dollar number every time they log in. It can be a real wake up call for people who have only played live.

When you don't keep accurate records, online or otherwise your going to fail.There is some good information in this thread, and since I loose online, I will at a minimum, do a better job at finding out why. I actually have been having some good MTT results, but feel I may be missing some profitable opprotunities online. I will start to make game selection more of a factor online. Live, I feel I am excellent at game selection, even playing quite a bit of non holdem games when the game is better elsewhere.

[Thriceknurd 0]

Personally I continue to have problems winning online. Overall I've been a losing player at ultimatebet. I find myself depositing again and again to no avail. Although I am starting to see a nice return now. I withdrew my first winnings in a long time and continue to play well at the .25 cent no limit tables. I think I'm starting to catch on to this online poker.Live play at the casino or house games is another story. I've been real successful at the casino near my house. This year alone I'm up $800 playing 1-3 no limit. I've consistantly been a winning poker player in live games.Yes this is my first post. I've been a lurker far too long. I'd like to contribute now. Good luck to the OP in becoming a winning player.

Welcome! You may be a Matusow type. That is a compliment (although you may find it a bankhanded compliment). What I mean is you have a unique ability to make a read from looking at a player, and you lose that edge online. I would suggest playing fundamental poker online, don't try to make to many fancy plays, pretty much just play your cards until you get better at reading players online. Online, I would suggest to look more at betting patterns and making good notes about players. These notes should be simple for the most part, plays loose, plays tight, steams, plays poor hands out of position, calls raises with small pairs, slowplays top pair top kicker, ect.

Thanks for that bit of advice bcook. Personally, learning betting patterns and adapting to online play where there are no physical tells can become daunting to me. I find myself trying to be 'fancy' at times I suppose. These type of plays work far more against me then favorably. The live play factor is so significant for me because I do rely on tells heavily as a part of my game (As do most serious poker players). Lately I feel my game has improved in that area. Take this for example:At the 1-3 no limit table I like to play at the casino.. I raise it up to $12 on the Dealer button with A7 after 2 limpers, sensing weakness and playing my position. Everyone folds with the exception of one of the limpers who surprisingly re-raised to $24! I called his raise to see a flop of K 9 8. He is sitting there with 3 stacks of $20 left in front of him. He is first to act and quick;y he grabs one of those stacks and pushes it past the line for a bet of $20. I think about it for a moment, and for some odd reason I was overcome with the feeling that he was b*s-ing so bad. I re-raised him all in. He is so disgusted at this point LoL. He folds after a second of thought. I show my bluff and it actually turned out he had A3. I had the best hand anyways playing for a split pot most likely. Good times. I felt so good for the rest of the night. That particualr hand helped me gain more confidence in my overall game and reading abilities.And that's my story...Chuck Norris has counted to infinity: Twice.

[KTW 0]

I play L and NL. I am not a big fan of PL. I do better at L but I enjoy NL more than L. I am not greedy so I do ok. I have always found setting a goal for the amount you want to win and then stick to it will work. If you play smaller games like $.50/$1NL and $5/$10 L and set a goal of lets say $200. With sound solid play and because there is no risk perse; It is not possible to not make that in 1 session of play. After you make your set amount you stop.It doesn't matter if it took you 30 min or 4 hours. If you have the will to do this everytime you will do ok. If not you won't.

[Fluffdog87 2]

I'm sure all the loyal FCPers read posts about people who have won hundreds and even thousands of dollars, tearing up the 10/20 and what not.I am not a winning online player, which is probably due to poor bankroll skills and lack of variance at the lower limit tables, but is anyone else hear losing.I study the game and have been playing a few years and feel my game is improving, but it is frustrating.Anyone else here not winning besides myself?

luckily no.keep at it you'll get there.record your play and watch it over again, and take more notes on the players.This will help u out.gl to u.

[jlgosse 0]

Sometimes I feel like I'm a losing player, but it's clear that I'm not.I have a problem though, and that is the fact that I always spend my winnings, so I never build a bankroll.Over the last year and a half or so I would guess I'm up at least 2000 but I've spent virtually all of it on booze and gadgets.I could be playing 1/2 NL or probably 2/4 or 3/6 LHE, but I have no will power to keep going.

[BNH77 0]

Take this for example:At the 1-3 no limit table I like to play at the casino.. I raise it up to $12 on the Dealer button with A7 after 2 limpers, sensing weakness and playing my position. Everyone folds with the exception of one of the limpers who surprisingly re-raised to $24! I called his raise Raising a pot w/ A7 after a few limpers, and then calling a reraise....... Maybe this is why your having trouble online. It worked out this time, but if u make that play time and time again which playing online allows you to do, you will be a losing player.

[MisterB 2]

Take this for example:At the 1-3 no limit table I like to play at the casino.. I raise it up to $12 on the Dealer button with A7 after 2 limpers, sensing weakness and playing my position. Everyone folds with the exception of one of the limpers who surprisingly re-raised to $24!  I called his raise  Raising a pot w/ A7 after a few limpers, and then calling a reraise.......  Maybe this is why your having trouble online.   It worked out this time, but if u make that play time and time again which playing online allows you to do, you will be a losing player.

very very very good point... kind of like the hand above calling with QJs... and catching a miracle card to win???... is it just me or did anyone else notice that it was pokerstars he was playing on???I have one question... at what point during a losing session do you quit? Is it just me or do you feel like you can keep playing and win it back, or just go all in with the pittance you have left and hope to double up??? I just want to know peoples thought process of when to shut it down for the night when youre losing$$$

[Loismustdie 0]

I do good, then I do bad. It is up and down. I am just now finally getting a handle on Bankroll management and really life management- I am in the process of starting a blog where you can all see details. I promise hilarity and a genuine insight into my life, not just poker stuff.

[Thriceknurd 0]

Take this for example:At the 1-3 no limit table I like to play at the casino.. I raise it up to $12 on the Dealer button with A7 after 2 limpers, sensing weakness and playing my position. Everyone folds with the exception of one of the limpers who surprisingly re-raised to $24!  I called his raise  Raising a pot w/ A7 after a few limpers, and then calling a reraise.......  Maybe this is why your having trouble online.   It worked out this time, but if u make that play time and time again which playing online allows you to do, you will be a losing player.

Beleive me BNH77 I'm typically not this loose aggressive. I'm actually quite the opposite. ESPECIALLY so online. I had been sitting at this table for more than an hour with the same players. I had a feel for the table. It was purely situational. These limpers had been playing weak during my time there. I felt my raise was right for several reasons:-I thought I had the best hand after seeing the action to me.-I had position on the dealer button.-I thought I could possible take the pot down with that raise.After I was re-raised, my read on the bettor was better was correct. I felt he was goofing around. He seemed to be getting tired and going a bit on tilt after losing a huge pot earlier to a bad beat. That is why I justify my call I suppose. Then of course I had another good read against him on the flop. This turned out to be one of my biggest wins that night.Although I do agree with you that these type of plays online lead to a losing player. I typically tend to only make these kinds of plays live. I'm more comfortable and confident at a live table. Online is another story, which is why I find it hard, personally, to be a constant winner.Thanks for the insight though.

[chane 0]

I always go down in stakes when I am on a bad run. If it's a long bad run, I quit for awhile. I just stop playing. I will do whatever it takes to avoid going on tilt.I usually play at like .25/.50 nl...sometimes .50/1 if I'm hot or the bonus I am shooting for requires it. I know it doesn't sound like much to some of you bigger ballers but, I make a decent 2nd income from it and it's where I am comfortable.Anyway, I absolutely hate it and feel like it's a waste of time to go down to lower stakes tables, especially if I am trying to get some money back...but, I do it.Going up in stakes when you're on a bad run is risky, but I understand why one might want to try that given the maniacs that plat at the lower stakes tables. It get's old getting my pocket rockets cracked by hands like 82 off. Yes, I raised the sh*t out of them pre flop. Who calls with 82 off? It's enough to really piss you off.

[Dhall901 0]

Over the last 3 years, I have not been a winning player.  I play mostly small stakes limit.  I cannot win online.  I recently moved to a city that has casinos, so I can play whenever I want.   Since Sept. I have been playing 3/6 limit at this casino and have been winning.  I am serious about bankroll management.  I keep records of every session.  I find that when I can play at a B&M whenever I want, I play more relaxed.  I do not play limit online any more.  I sometimes will play a LN tourney online.

If that's a picture of your girl, you sir are a winner in my book.

[ilovejulie 0]

I don't win regularly, but I am getting better all the time. Online, I am best at NL Headsup, strangely. Then NL tournaments both live and online as I have the most expereince there. I play limit at B&M when I can (rarely). I play for recreation as I love the game and never lose anything that I can't afford.

[The Bwaves 0]

Personally I continue to have problems winning online. Overall I've been a losing player at ultimatebet. I find myself depositing again and again to no avail. Although I am starting to see a nice return now. I withdrew my first winnings in a long time and continue to play well at the .25 cent no limit tables. I think I'm starting to catch on to this online poker.Live play at the casino or house games is another story. I've been real successful at the casino near my house. This year alone I'm up $800 playing 1-3 no limit. I've consistantly been a winning poker player in live games.Yes this is my first post. I've been a lurker far too long. I'd like to contribute now.  Good luck to the OP in becoming a winning player.

I was reading this and it sounded like what I would post almost exactly. I play live and am up a little over 700 from January 1st. Haven't lost a session yet, hoping to keep it up till I have about 10 buy ins. I win some online and I lose some, I don't care about online though, I never deposite enough for a sufficient BR anyway, 25 here 25 there. So I donk it off when I play a 5 dollar sng then think i'm pro and run up the the 10 dollar and get smashed then all your money is gone.

[Brisco 0]

I have been doing well at .10-.10 pot limit. I multi table and play tight.

[Jeff 0]

Over the last 3 years, I have not been a winning player.  I play mostly small stakes limit.  I cannot win online.  I recently moved to a city that has casinos, so I can play whenever I want.   Since Sept. I have been playing 3/6 limit at this casino and have been winning.  I am serious about bankroll management.  I keep records of every session.  I find that when I can play at a B&M whenever I want, I play more relaxed.  I do not play limit online any more.  I sometimes will play a LN tourney online.

wow. the ass in your avatar might be the most amazing ass i've ever seen. i think i stared at it for damn close to 6 seconds. that has got to be photoshoped. where's the cellulite?

This is Keyra Augistina Julieta, and Argentine girl who is not a model. She is ranked by Howard Stern as the "Best Ass in the World." She agreed to do a spread (pun intended) in Maxim, but does not want to go into modeling. Google her. She has a few strip tease videos floating around the internet which are outstanding.

[Pokerghost2 0]

i am on a week long downswing, but it feels like its a lifelong curse about now. for the first time in a while im considering a break from poker.

[Simpleton 0]

I can't believe noone has posted about that moron corrados plays in his hand history up above. Talk about a friggin donkey.

[Thriceknurd 0]

[i win some online and I lose some, I don't care about online though, I never deposite enough for a sufficient BR anyway, 25 here 25 there. So I donk it off when I play a 5 dollar sng then think i'm pro and run up the the 10 dollar and get smashed then all your money is gone.

I'm in the same boat. I'm the guy who deposits $25 here $25 there that tries the $5 SNG's. I get smashed at these as well.. In which case I lose my initial deposit only to end up submitting yet another minimum deposit.Luckily I've finally broken through that trend when I placed 2nd in a scheduled tournament on ultimatebet. I have $$ to play around with! Now I just have to be sure not to donk it off.I hope I quoted this right...

[jlgosse 0]

Its like telling someone who has trouble with long division to try Calculus.

Because they have everything to do with eachother, right?

[Corrado 0]

you guys are all donkeys hahahahahaha :evil:

[blakheart 3]

Well thought out informative post. I just disagree. I know many players who are winners live and not online, and vice versa. I am a winning player for over 3 years live, so thats certainly not a rush. You say it takes one year to gauge what one's win rate may be live. While that may be true, by your own reasoning, if you can play 4x the hands online, then you can measure your win rate in 3 months? 4x would be the minimum if one is playing 3 tables. Its more like 6-8 times.

No problem disagreeing. The year factor I threw out there was just a guess (I dont feel like doing the math lol) and it really depends on how many hours you play. But in online play you need to rack up about 10000 hands at a minimum to really get a grip on how you are doing (100,000 is what I would recommend). Not sure how that translates into live play. All casual live players have played far fewer hands that online players. With the smaller sample size, they are probably not nearly as good (or bad) as they think.Not saying this is you, but what I find most from live players is that they are very poor record keepers. I have a spreadsheet (thanks excel) where I count not only my raw win/loss for the day, but I also have column for food and gas, and the clock starts running when I leave the house for the casino and doesnt stop until I get home. I pay for all drinks and tips with chips from the table so thats counted in the raw win/loss column. Once you start doing that you notice a big effect on your win rate. This is a big reason why some live players dont tip (cheap bastards). They've done the math. They know it has a big effect on their win rate.Now in contrast with online play, things are much different. They provide EXACT record keeping with that nice little dollar number in your profile. There is no way to fudge the numbers. So you know exactly, without a doubt, if you are winning or losing. All players, both online and live, have short term memories. They always remember their most recent sessions the best. The difference with the online players is that they see that dollar number every time they log in. It can be a real wake up call for people who have only played live.

I expierenced the same difference between online play and B@M. I think I have more expierence over many years playing in B@M then I do online. Last year I was a small loser online, and a winner in B@M. I decided to focus on imporving my online results. So far this year I am positive online. I know it is early, but it is encouraging.I know that there are many people who argue that online is live are the same, but I strongly disagree with that. There is less information available online then in a live game. I think one big factor in B@ M play is that sometimes you can get a read on someone that is so lock solid that you can really see through his cards. I then wait for the opportunity to pick on that player. That advantage is harder to get online, I spend more time playing sit n gos online so I can get some information from betting patterns on some players. Online is helping my game overall, it forces me to play as close to optimally as I can every hand. I know you stategy guys are going to tell me to get poker tracker for reads, and you are probably right.

[The Bwaves 0]

[i win some online and I lose some, I don't care about online though, I never deposite enough for a sufficient BR anyway, 25 here 25 there. So I donk it off when I play a 5 dollar sng then think i'm pro and run up the the 10 dollar and get smashed then all your money is gone.

I'm in the same boat. I'm the guy who deposits $25 here $25 there that tries the $5 SNG's. I get smashed at these as well.. In which case I lose my initial deposit only to end up submitting yet another minimum deposit.Luckily I've finally broken through that trend when I placed 2nd in a scheduled tournament on ultimatebet. I have $$ to play around with! Now I just have to be sure not to donk it off.I hope I quoted this right...

Nice, I've been placing in some of the low buy in tourneys but you really need a first or second to get anywhere. I actually can keep my 25 up for a few months but I just get tired for 5 hours of work for 18 bucks or whatever in the low buy in massive amounts of people on stars.Live has kept me way afloat though compared to online, I'm a winning player live, but I'm way low on the internet, I probably need about 500 bucks to come back from all the online play i've lost.

[oceansize 0]

Not winning, though I think it's mostly a matter of discipline. For instance, playing at a friends house for the first time in his regular game and they played 3 NLHE tournies, I arrived late and played the last two scorring a solid first place in the second of their games and chopping the last two places in the third game. So I did well, I think a net gain of $120 there abouts. Of course I got drunk passed out on the couch, and insisted the next day of taking the hosts out to breakfast and then spent about 50 bucks on three breakfasts and two pitchers of summit. Not to mention I had bought a twelve pack from one of the guests the night before, and after leaving my friends, went out and got crazy...think I might have still had $20 in my pocket after the cab ride home. So to re-cap, my net gain on a good round of playing leaves me at $0. I played 2 $10 dollar games with $10 dollar re-buys that I did not use, bought a $10 twelve pack, investment of $30. I walked with $150 in my pocket, and when I got home the following night, had the $20 that I started friday evening with.So no, I'm not winning, but I think that has more to do with a lifestyle of ragged debauchery rather than ability to do well at the tables. And of course there are nights, just like anyone else where I do not do so well (bubble bursting moments, we all have those) and take a bigger hit, because I don't feed the demons that prey on me with winnings.So yeah, not winning. Take this story and leave a sadder but wiser man.

[21gambit 0]

sI have read all the posts and it seems as though all of you are decent players...I think that the main problem you all have is that youre a victims of the rake. When playing online a player who is breaking even or slightly beating the game will take a loss due to the amount of hands played in such a short amount of time because of the speed of online poker. The way you can change that is by reading up on the game and learning a tad bit more to enhance your edge. Remember that extremely stupid call u made last night? Dont do that anymore, save that bet.By doing this, and signing up with a rake back program I believe you all can beat the gamew.

[APS_IV 0]

I'm a winning player in live games and no matter what I do I cannot win online. Every hand that I play to the river, I take some kind of beat. Whether it be texas, omaha, 8/b, it doesn't matter. I'd really love to know why this only happens online. It has for years now and I'm sure it'll never stop.