pgsihsxc123 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 well, i didn't really expect so much feedback but let me respond to some of it.We are all 18 so the stakes weren't huge but when your're 18 every dollar counts. We play .25-.50 blinds NL so one can lose quite a bit on a night. The kid has offered to pay the regular's in the game a total of 350: 200 to the kid who lost the most and 50 each to the other three (me). We're (the 4 regulars) are thinking about accepting the offer but we haven't decided yet. So basically he admits to cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
MilesZS 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 At my home game this week we caught a player cheating. When he was dealing he would put out the flop then immediately burn a card. He would then move the next card a little bit so the corner would show and then get really low and check his hold cards and he could see what was coming. If he needed that card he would flip it of he would burn again and flip the next card, thus giving himself two options for both the turn and river. This person is a regular player and was a friend to many of us. Another player picked up on it and grabbed all the discards before they were returned to the deck and counted the cards. There were 2 extra cards. We let him cash out and go but want to recover our losses. Any advice? Thank you.You guys are way too emotional to play poker.The best revenge is to make him pay it all back at the poker table.Knowing a cheater actually is a big advantage to you, just pretend you don't know him cheating and just cheat the cheater.How, hmm, for example, when he's got good cards you fold; when he deals himself good cards while you've got the nut, make him pay big time; try to induce bluff from him... This is something general, you need to know that person to beat a cheater.So wait for the god damned nuts to play in your god damned home game? To me, as soon as I catch a cheater, I want everyone to know he or she is a cheater. Then it's mob rule, basically. I would stop everyone after 1 or 2 punches to the face and just kick his ass out. I'd actually be more pissed off if it was a good friend of mine, because a good friend should not be trying to steal your ****ing money. You're way too passive. I thought I was a passive person to an extent (only 1 or 2 punches to the face?) , but trying to exploit it would just frustrate me. What is the likelihood you get the nuts when he's dealing? What is the likelihood that as he deals cards that help him on the turn and river, you've still got the nuts? Just a lil bit.No, the answer is to at least call him on it so he's embarrassed as shit, tell him he therefore sacrifices whatever money is on the table, and (AT THE LEAST) tell him if he doesn't leave immediately, he will probably get the shit kicked out of him. Simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
MilesZS 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 well, i didn't really expect so much feedback but let me respond to some of it.We are all 18 so the stakes weren't huge but when your're 18 every dollar counts. We play .25-.50 blinds NL so one can lose quite a bit on a night. The kid has offered to pay the regular's in the game a total of 350: 200 to the kid who lost the most and 50 each to the other three (me). We're (the 4 regulars) are thinking about accepting the offer but we haven't decided yet. So basically he admits to cheating.Is this a friend? If so, then that is a pretty respectable way to try to make it up to you guys. I don't know what figure you use as a buy-in for the event, so it's hard to guage whether the 'reparations' are sufficient, but at least he's trying to make it up to you guys. I would probably accept the offer with stipulations. He can't deal ever again, he gets no say in what games are played, what limits, what blinds, etc. If he wants to play fine, but he has to play by everyone else's rules. If he doesn't like it, "STFU N GTFO" as the kids say. Link to post Share on other sites
LFD09 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Do like they did in the movie casino. He could either get to walk away or the money and you break his hand with a hammer. That might have worked! Link to post Share on other sites
Sushiman 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I don't see how you can let this guy in the game again. As a friend he totally betrayed your trust, and that's always going to be hanging over the card table no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites
Salag 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Take the rest of his money, and if he argues, take it anyway. if he tries to attack, "gently" remove him from the premises and if he cheats again, never let him back. if he still cries do this: :boohoo: Link to post Share on other sites
Hardrocker 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I have found that it helps to marinade the meat for at least 24 hours.Oh, wait!!! That says cheater...not cheetah.My bad. Link to post Share on other sites
TheSkearnel 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I'm kinda torn between the two choices most are saying that you have here. Yeah, the guy deserves a quick "tune up" for what he did, but on the other hand, if he is a friend, maybe forgiveness is the thing.I don't know about the other guys here, but my friends would all get a second chance with me. Now, at the poker table, no, not allowed to play anymore. But as a friend......well.......some things are more important than poker.If he wasn't a friend, take the cash, tune him up, and kick him out. If he comes back............well..........beat him........like he stole something. Heh, that worked out pretty well.-Shawn K. Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 well, i didn't really expect so much feedback but let me respond to some of it.We are all 18 so the stakes weren't huge but when your're 18 every dollar counts. We play .25-.50 blinds NL so one can lose quite a bit on a night. The kid has offered to pay the regular's in the game a total of 350: 200 to the kid who lost the most and 50 each to the other three (me). We're (the 4 regulars) are thinking about accepting the offer but we haven't decided yet. So basically he admits to cheating.Is this a friend? If so, then that is a pretty respectable way to try to make it up to you guys. I don't know what figure you use as a buy-in for the event, so it's hard to guage whether the 'reparations' are sufficient, but at least he's trying to make it up to you guys. I would probably accept the offer with stipulations. He can't deal ever again, he gets no say in what games are played, what limits, what blinds, etc. If he wants to play fine, but he has to play by everyone else's rules. If he doesn't like it, "STFU N GTFO" as the kids say.That sounds fair. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 This is what you do:You watch which hand he is using to set the deck to peak at the turn or river card.....you then have a buddy sneak up behind him with a machete.....and when he reaches for his cards again.....your friend then...CHOPS HIS DAMN ARM OFF! Link to post Share on other sites
dtemp 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 You guys that say you should use physical violence are just insane. Here's why:1. In most states, playing poker is illegal. But you only get caught if someone reports you.2. In all states, hitting someone is illegal (usually a FELONY!).So, you hit the guy, he goes to the cops, they come to your house and arrest you for battery, and OOPS you are gambling illegally so you now have 2 charges against you.I host a LOT of home games as well as an entire league of tourneys, and I've give a LOT of thought to this. If it's a tourney, then the person is "asked" to leave and of course forfeits his buyin. If it's a cash game, he forfeits what's on the table and the money is split between the players (and I may pro-rate the split if anyone came in recently, etc.).But I'm not gonna take the money out of his wallet or hit him...that's THEFT and BATTERY.Some guys may call this guy a wimp, but he's right. Assult charges are serious, not to mention that several people jumpling one person can quickly get out of hand. Add in the chance of him carrying a weapon and the violence just becomes a really risky idea. Link to post Share on other sites
EVILGENIUS 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 he is paying back a little but how long has he been doing this shit?take the money and NEVER play with him again...it will alway be a problem with trust and no one will enjoy themselves, plus when he does win people will think he was cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Some guys may call this guy a wimp, but he's right. Assult charges are serious, not to mention that several people jumpling one person can quickly get out of hand. Add in the chance of him carrying a weapon and the violence just becomes a really risky idea.That is why you prepare for this instance.....If the cheater has a weapon....you should always have somebody with a firearm ready...and if the cheater pulls his gun...you shoot him dead. (In Florida, you are allowed to kill an intruder in your home.)After you kill him, you might have to "prepare" the scene and have the other players give statements as to the "fact" that the cheater intruded into your home with a firearm....or of course you dispose of the body by chopping it up and placing the pieces into seperate garbage bags and then toss them in the ocean weighed down by concrete blocks.ORJust tell him politely that he has been caught cheating and that he has lost his buyin along with every chip he has in front of him and that he is barred from playing in your home ever again. You then spread the word with other home game hosts about the cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
kerplunk 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 From the way that you describe the mechanics of his cheating, I can't believe that a table of players could fail to immediately recognizethat something was up. Like a previous poster said, burning a card early is a pretty big tipoff. I have been known to let this slide in some home games (especially if I'm pretty new to it), but only with extreme amateurs who don't know better, and in games where having to constantly remind them not to burn early would bring down the mood of the game. But burning two cards in the same betting round? To me, that'd be like someone playing basketball who suddenly just picked up the ball and started walking with it. My first thought would be, "Uh, what the are you doing burning two cards?" If the person acted like they didn't know they were doing anything wrong, I'd let them know that they can't just burn any ol' number of cards, and from then on, I would be more particular about not letting them burn early, to prevent future issues. If they seem to recognize what they did, saying "my mistake," then I'd let it pass, but, again, i'd be more diligent from then on. Now as for the whole business of tipping the deck slightly and getting real low to see the next card, that's almost comical. How does anyone do this without looking insanely suspicious? And did he only do the "get low" maneuver when it was his deal? I'm not trying to be harsh on the original poster, but I feel like this bush-league level of cheating could have been prevented with very little effort. As for how I would have dealt with the situation, beating the guy up seems pretty silly in this case. I wouldn't have let him cash out, but since you already did, I think there are other ways to get all or most of your money back. First of all, he's offered to give back money, so either he is feeling pretty remorseful or he's fearful of what might happen if he refuses to give back money to you guys. Second, he has basically admitted to cheating, so he has no leg to stand on. I would gather the other players together, confont him, and say that if he wants to salvage these friendships (you wrote that he was friends with many of you), he needs to give back everything from when you all started playing whether or not he's been cheating since the beginning. If he doesn't, then you guys will have written him off, and he'll suffer whatever consequences that entails, which is up to you. Now, if you decide as a group to ask for a lower amount of repayment rather than everything he's made since he started playing with you, that's up to you as well. Figuring out a fair approximation of how much he's made is a concern, though certainly not insurmountable. My point is that I think you have more than enough leverage to extract however much you feel is appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites
dtemp 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Some guys may call this guy a wimp, but he's right. Assult charges are serious, not to mention that several people jumpling one person can quickly get out of hand. Add in the chance of him carrying a weapon and the violence just becomes a really risky idea.That is why you prepare for this instance.....If the cheater has a weapon....you should always have somebody with a firearm ready...and if the cheater pulls his gun...you shoot him dead. (In Florida, you are allowed to kill an intruder in your home.)After you kill him, you might have to "prepare" the scene and have the other players give statements as to the "fact" that the cheater intruded into your home with a firearm....or of course you dispose of the body by chopping it up and placing the pieces into seperate garbage bags and then toss them in the ocean weighed down by concrete blocks.Christ, I'm from Texas. I really should have known better. Here you are allowed to shoot somebody for looking at your house funny. Please disregard my "sound" advice from earlier. Link to post Share on other sites
Dhall901 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Seriously, the point of cards is to take each others money, fairly. If some dude was cheating he shouldn't have left the room without getting black and blue..take your cash out of his a$$. That just shouldn't fly. Link to post Share on other sites
walktheplank69 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I swear to god, even if it was my best friend and it was a penny game I'd take him into the garden and give him a kicking... I'd expect no less if he caught me when I cheat:-)Kick his ass Link to post Share on other sites
JaysonWeber 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I wouldn't kick his ass... Too risky, A cheater is a Rat, and a Rat could call the cops.Take his money on the table and kindly (maybe not so) tell him to get the **** out, and that he will have a hard time finding people to play with after you tell everyone and there grandmothers too that he's a cheat. (This is what we did when we found a player cheating) Link to post Share on other sites
wilheldp 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 did you read bringing down the house? i loved that book. in it they make a known card counter swallow a 10 thousand dollar chip, just wondering. seriously, good book though.Wow...I'd be crapping through a strainer for a week trying to pass that chip and go cash it in (or have somebody else cash it for me if I were in the Griffin Book). Link to post Share on other sites
TraptSteve 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 A friend's cousin was a pool hustler back in the day. We were playing pool in my basement when he told me how one time some kid tried to ditch the pool hall to avoid paying a bet. He caught him outside (This was in Chicago), pinned him to the ground, and broke his left hand with a brick.Your friend was wise enough to cheat with people he knew; they weren't going to fu ck him up. He considers you guys chumps.He offered to pay you guys back? I really think it is too late for that. Don't allow him back in the game. Tell him to cut the cheating, because he is going to get himself hurt doing that with the wrong people. Link to post Share on other sites
wisky_VI 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Definetly not let him cashout before leaving and maybe extract extra funds from him if for sure others lost big. If not keep his chips, humiliate him there and always and let it go. Beyond that maybe get lucky and have him get belligerant so you can give him a group beating.Sux either way...... Link to post Share on other sites
Meatwad 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Shouldn't call him a friend if he's trying to cheat you out of your cash. Imagine if you didn't catch him now how much more he would've taken you for. He's a sorry person but not sorry.For the people talking about beating him up as assault, I believe it's actually battery without assault if you're not threatening him and just physically attacking. Wouldn't be a felony unless there was serious harm or weapons involved I believe but it's been two years since the law course. Isn't there some lawyers here to clear this up? I know people who just got probation then had it expunged from their records for the first offense not that I'm condoning it... Link to post Share on other sites
ckbandit 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 You guys that say you should use physical violence are just insane. Here's why:1. In most states, playing poker is illegal. But you only get caught if someone reports you.2. In all states, hitting someone is illegal (usually a FELONY!).So, you hit the guy, he goes to the cops, they come to your house and arrest you for battery, and OOPS you are gambling illegally so you now have 2 charges against you.I host a LOT of home games as well as an entire league of tourneys, and I've give a LOT of thought to this. If it's a tourney, then the person is "asked" to leave and of course forfeits his buyin. If it's a cash game, he forfeits what's on the table and the money is split between the players (and I may pro-rate the split if anyone came in recently, etc.).But I'm not gonna take the money out of his wallet or hit him...that's THEFT and BATTERY.Some guys may call this guy a wimp, but he's right. Assult charges are serious, not to mention that several people jumpling one person can quickly get out of hand. Add in the chance of him carrying a weapon and the violence just becomes a really risky idea.A majority of my regulars/friends in my home games are cops, and they would physically assault this guy (then use the excuse that they're cops, so it's alright) Link to post Share on other sites
Batch 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I wouldn't kick his ass... Too risky, A cheater is a Rat, and a Rat could call the cops.Take his money on the table and kindly (maybe not so) tell him to get the censored out, and that he will have a hard time finding people to play with after you tell everyone and there grandmothers too that he's a cheat. Â (This is what we did when we found a player cheating)I would pound his fu cking head in.He goes to the cops then I pound his ****ing head in again.Very simple. Link to post Share on other sites
avsfan 0 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 To the orginal poster. if your not a thug already don't let a poker cheat make you one.Imho Link to post Share on other sites
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