mucking or calling an all in with kk pre-flop

[daddypoker23 0]

alright this is what happen mr.orange the player who is very unpredictable who i give respect to0 had pocket aces . so to answer my own question i was 50/50 about calling or folding it was so much money and the one question that i ask myself before calling was would i call his all in bet if it was only a 50 dollare all in bet and i answered the qestion YES so that is the reason i called. and lost a 320 pot peace out joel

[Royal_Tour 0]

....by the way...considering the division in opinion on this board whether to call or fold...I think it proves that raising a 4$ pot to 160.00 with AA's is not necessarily that bad of a play if the guy in fact had AA's...maybe it's even a good play. Also...if the guy has 160.00 on a $50.00 buy in table that means he has been winning...wouldn't it be reasonable to think that he might know such an overbet would only be called by AA's or KK's, thus likely he has AA's and is hoping he runs into a sucker.again JMHO.KK

cant see it being a good playthats me though

So let me guess. The good play is to call this.. And pray your ahead,, then pray you hold up????????Hmm sounds to me like someone is not very confident in his over all capabilities, and would take any chance to let his faith come down to a race..Poor Poor playing abilities

[Royal_Tour 0]

alright this is what happen mr.orange the player who is very unpredictable who i give respect to0 had pocket aces . so to answer my own question i was 50/50 about calling or folding it was so much money and the one question that i ask myself before calling was would i call his all in bet if it was only a 50 dollare all in bet and i answered the qestion YES so that is the reason i called. and lost a 320 pot peace out joel

BOOO YAAA!!!! . CONGRATS TO ALL WHO SAID FOLD

[justblaze 0]

....by the way...considering the division in opinion on this board whether to call or fold...I think it proves that raising a 4$ pot to 160.00 with AA's is not necessarily that bad of a play if the guy in fact had AA's...maybe it's even a good play. Also...if the guy has 160.00 on a $50.00 buy in table that means he has been winning...wouldn't it be reasonable to think that he might know such an overbet would only be called by AA's or KK's, thus likely he has AA's and is hoping he runs into a sucker.again JMHO.KK

cant see it being a good playthats me though

So let me guess. The good play is to call this.. And pray your ahead,, then pray you hold up????????Hmm sounds to me like someone is not very confident in his over all capabilities, and would take any chance to let his faith come down to a race..Poor Poor playing abilities

god, you're so wrong its not even funny. i mean, think about it? Splashmaster has played green chip games. have you? he has played final tables with McEvoy. Have you? he has won more money than you could ever dream of (and he can say this in full confidence despite knowing absolutely nothing about you or your financial situation). On behalf of splashmaster, i challenge you to a headsup duel. of course, since im playing on his roll, it will be the 100-200 NL play money tables. none of that micro 1-2 crap.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

alright this is what happen mr.orange the player who is very unpredictable who i give respect to0 had pocket aces . so to answer my own question i was 50/50 about calling or folding it was so much money and the one question that i ask myself before calling was would i call his all in bet if it was only a 50 dollare all in bet and i answered the qestion YES so that is the reason i called. and lost a 320 pot peace out joel

BOOO YAAA!!!! . CONGRATS TO ALL WHO SAID FOLD

Thanks, but he definitely doesn't seem to want to answer my question. I questioned how he came to the conclusion that the guy would just move in for that much with any two. Shockingly, I got no answer. That clearly means that his read was just made up. The guy probably just played a bunch of hands, but didn't do something as dumb as constantly move in with them. If this is the case, then folding is definitely the correct play.

[r18 0]

I go back and forth on what that bet means. I think in tournaments it's usually a sign of weakness but in cash games it's sometimes worth it to "trap" like that by going all in with aces. Cause some people never think you have it.In terms of cash no limit, I had a similar situation last week playing 2/5 where I raised to 15 on the button, trying to make it look like I was stealing. (I had pocket kings). Big bling reraised me all in. I had seen him do some dumb stuff a few times so I quickly called. He turned over Ace suited. Of course he hit the ace on the turn but that's besides the point.

[Azzy666 0]

(Deleted post)I am dumb.Swift_Psycho: Damn you - you noticed! ha ha ha

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Does anyone else find it entertaining that daddypoker23 hasn't replied? I'm predicting he never replies and leaves us all dying of curiosity! ha ha ha

Have you read the past few posts? He did reply.

[daddypoker23 0]

mr.orange who plays a lot at pokermountain is a very aggressive loose player but he knows what he is doing. to be honest i eiter put him on aces, acek, or qq and i was really shocked by his 156 re-raised it was such a over bet but i've seen him do that before with qq and ace k it was just bad luck for me to have kk when he had aces. and even worse since he had 160 arrr. peace out joel

[Naismith 0]

For the record, I would've probably called with my kings.Anyhoo, what your opponent did is one of my favorite plays. If you have a good read on someone and can accurately put them on a big hand, overbetting the pot works wonders. No one believes it. So many people want to and are wary of slow-playing. :)Peace,Jay

[Royal_Tour 0]

....by the way...considering the division in opinion on this board whether to call or fold...I think it proves that raising a 4$ pot to 160.00 with AA's is not necessarily that bad of a play if the guy in fact had AA's...maybe it's even a good play. Also...if the guy has 160.00 on a $50.00 buy in table that means he has been winning...wouldn't it be reasonable to think that he might know such an overbet would only be called by AA's or KK's, thus likely he has AA's and is hoping he runs into a sucker.again JMHO.KK

cant see it being a good playthats me though

So let me guess. The good play is to call this.. And pray your ahead,, then pray you hold up????????Hmm sounds to me like someone is not very confident in his over all capabilities, and would take any chance to let his faith come down to a race..Poor Poor playing abilities

god, you're so wrong its not even funny. i mean, think about it? Splashmaster has played green chip games. have you? he has played final tables with McEvoy. Have you? he has won more money than you could ever dream of (and he can say this in full confidence despite knowing absolutely nothing about you or your financial situation). On behalf of splashmaster, i challenge you to a headsup duel. of course, since im playing on his roll, it will be the 100-200 NL play money tables. none of that micro 1-2 crap.

Well in that case.. I'll have to bow down., i'm affraid to lose the play money i've worked so hard for., How bout we play "Go-Fish" there is about the same level as skill involved, as the way splash master plays poker

[SplashMaster 0]

....by the way...considering the division in opinion on this board whether to call or fold...I think it proves that raising a 4$ pot to 160.00 with AA's is not necessarily that bad of a play if the guy in fact had AA's...maybe it's even a good play. Also...if the guy has 160.00 on a $50.00 buy in table that means he has been winning...wouldn't it be reasonable to think that he might know such an overbet would only be called by AA's or KK's, thus likely he has AA's and is hoping he runs into a sucker.again JMHO.KK

cant see it being a good playthats me though

So let me guess. The good play is to call this.. And pray your ahead,, then pray you hold up????????Hmm sounds to me like someone is not very confident in his over all capabilities, and would take any chance to let his faith come down to a race..Poor Poor playing abilities

keep folding KK preflop and let me know how you make outlolpoor poker playing abilitieslol

[SabaAba 0]

mr.orange who plays a lot at pokermountain is a very aggressive loose player but he knows what he is doing. to be honest i eiter put him on aces, acek, or qq and i was really shocked by his 156 re-raised it was such a over bet but i've seen him do that before with qq and ace k it was just bad luck for me to have kk when he had aces. and even worse since he had 160 arrr. peace out joel

Hey Joel,You were thinking about this all wrong. You can't say if it was $50 would you call, becuase it's not $50. I would call too with $50, but not for $160. Fact is, anyone who does this, like me, is hoping you have KK, QQ, or AK. Those are most likely the only cards that will call you all in preflop. And that's what he was trying to achieve. I don't play AA slow to a preflop raise for this reason. If you had say KK, the only way I am getting all your money in preflop is if no A hits. If you have QQ, if no A or K hits. But if you raised with say 88, the only way I am getting the rest of your money in the pot, is if my AA was outdrawn. Therefore, this was an obvious AA. And, even if he would have shown you 72o, I still say folding is correct. You can't call $160 for the $4 you have in the pot. It's stupid. I would only call here with AA.Hope you learned your lesson of folding KK preflop to an all in raise. Of course if you had $50 or less, there is no risk to losing since you can just buy back to $50. However, losing $160, just gave away 3 times that. That's why I agree with the other guy, you got to $500, you should leave and say I had a great night.

[Dirtydutch 8]

i was playing at a shorthanded 50/1 nl game. i was doing very well the max u can start with was 50 and i build it up to 510 or so i've never have done that before either way i was one position away from the button and i had pocket kk i raised it 4 bucks then this guy who was on the sb re-raised me all in he had 160 or so in front of him. now am not going to say what i did but i would like u guys input and found out what u would do and why...... to help u out the guy who went all in is very unpredictable player at anytime he can be holding any two random cards . peace out joel

Is this supposed to be funny? Dutch.

[Monster_Josh 0]

I just want to state a fact. It's easier to tell if you're opponent has AA in fixed limit hold em than it is in no limit hold em.

[SapphireTiger 0]

I just want to state a fact.  It's easier to tell if you're opponent has AA in fixed limit hold em than it is in no limit hold em.

clarification?

[MrNiceGuy 0]

This is an interesting situation - I'm sure if this had come up at the table, I'd have called instantly, but now after thinking it through, I'm not sure that calling is the right play. Obviously, if you know the guy well enough to know that he'd make this play without AA (and about this size chip stack, in proportion to the blinds and your raise) more than you've seen him make it with AA, then you should call, and vice versa, you should fold. But with no read on this guy for this particular play ............ I think it might come down to what he might be putting you on for your raise (from 2nd position in what I'm assuming is a 6-handed game).I took a look at this from the perspective of, "is your opponent making a good play, given your calling standards?" Since if he's making a good play, it's on average going to win him money (this costing you and/or the BB money) and if he's making a bad play, it's going to win you money.Let's assume for your raise you are representing one of: A(K-8 ), KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, or any pair. For simplicity, let's say you would make that $4 raise with any of these hands and fold or limp with all others.Suppose that he either doesn't know you, and assumes your raising pattern to be as above, or he knows this is roughly what you would raise with. So for example, if he has AA, and you and the BB will fold everything but AA to his bet, then he will make $5 every hand (save for the ~1/200 times (given that your hand possibilities are limited due to your raise) that you or the BB hold the other two aces). This is lower than he could expect with conventional play, so he's losing money by making this play. If you will call with AA or KK, he's making $7.5 each hand, which is still worse than conventional play. In this case, the more hands you call with, the better he does, and the worse you do.However, if you're willing to fold KK (and so is the BB), he's actually making money if he's going all-in with, for example, 7-2 offsuit (I can post the details if anyone is interested). But if you will call with AA or KK, then he's losing money with this play.In this situation, having gone through it, I think I would fold, because while the raiser is only making a good play with AA if you or the BB would both call with hands like QQ and JJ, and since the average player might not fold those hands. But if your all-in raiser was the BB and went all-in with that sized stack after everyone but you had folded, then I would call with KK, and probably QQ and JJ as well (again, this is absent any read on the player regarding this play).But the analysis changes if you change his stack size - as has been mentioned, the smaller his stack is, the better a call becomes, and the larger his stack, the better a fold becomes. Also, if the all-in guy knows your raising standards, then the looser they are, the more you should lean towards calling, and the tighter they are, the more you should lean towards folding.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I will never fold KK preflop. Ever.

I've folded kings once preflop...i raised a raiser who put me all in for about 120 bucks when i had about 8 invested, he showed aces.

[vaglvr 0]

I will never fold KK preflop. Ever.

I've folded kings once preflop...i raised a raiser who put me all in for about 120 bucks when i had about 8 invested, he showed aces.

You also don't raise a j, so i could see you folding k k preflop..

[potpumper43 0]

Here is a hand that I played in the low limit NL tables on Party Poker. I am in a 25$ buy in 6 headed NL table (.10/.25 blinds, micro limit). I have built my stack to 63$ playing very aggressively, raising about 33% of the pots to a dollar preflop and just taking down small pot after small pot w a flop bet. So this hand goes down. I have raised 3 straight pots and won all of them on the flop, then I pick up AA utg. I make my raise to a dollar as usual, and the guy in seat 2 reraises me to 1.75, the minimum (he has 35$ behind him). This is the first time this guy has repopped me preflop the entire night, he had called most of my raises right behind me and folded to a flop bet pretty much every time. The guy behind him who is a very tight rock calls the 1.75 cold ( 18$ roughly). I knew Seat 2 was frustrated, he had been busted twice in addition to being grinded down calling all of my dollar raises trying to flop a hand against me. Since it was the first reraise he had made I put him on a premium hand, and I thought there was a very good chance he would call with these hands, so when the action came back to me I moved in my entire 63$ stack. I must point out here that the game had been very friendly, sports talk and such, without many large pots played. I figured seat 2 would call and the tight guy would fold behind him, or they would both fold and I would show them the AA to keep them docile preflop in future pots. The tight guy had been playing decently and suffered some bad beats, but remained really friendly, so I was kind of throwing him a bone w/ the size of my raise, trying to push him out. Seat 2 called immediately, then the tight player called all in as well. Seat 2 had AQd and the tight guy had AKs. AA stands up to win all pots. So as a reply to those who say a gaint out of proportion raise w AA cannot be a correct play, I would say that sometimes you have enough information to make a play like this, knowing a player is likely to call. I get these types of calls fairly often w/ AA in these weak low limit games. You really have to be an aggressive player to pull it off. 1$. 1.75$. 63$. People do make dumb calls, and AA is the hand to punish them with if they will make them. Also, I think the original poster has a clear fold w/ KK in the featured hand. 4$ why bother.Peace y'all.

[AC BillP 0]

The only hand I raise all-in PF is AA and at least on PP, I've been called several times. In fact on $30 Sit-and-Goes, I got everyone to fold only twice last month. Overbetting is such a dumb play, for some reason it seems to work online. You really should have cashed out the $500 anyway BEFORE the hand, and gone on the wait list so people wouldn't be able to take a cheap shot at your winnings in my opinion.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I still say this was an easy easy fold.Anyone who thinks you have to call with KK in a cahse game is, well, not a real poker player IMO.And I personally don't think the 156 raise all in with aces was horrible.How many people who have posted in this thread said "there's no way he had aces, who raises all in with aces, etc"...which induces calls from schumucks with QQ, AK, or KK.Its never bad to get all your money in preflop with AA, I actually like the play.

[SplashMaster 0]

I still say this was an easy easy fold.Anyone who thinks you have to call with KK in a cahse game is, well, not a real poker player IMO.And I personally don't think the 156 raise all in with aces was horrible.How many people who have posted in this thread said "there's no way he had aces, who raises all in with aces, etc"...which induces calls from schumucks with QQ, AK, or KK.Its never bad to get all your money in preflop with AA, I actually like the play.

well I guess Im not a real poker playermy $$$ goes in with KK in a cash gamebut I accept your view of me mr. bauer

[BigSlick 0]

I think you have to "take a chance" here. You have made quite a bit of money and like previous posters have said, if you lose ya lose. You would still be able to quit up quite a bit of money. KK is a monster hand and I would never throw it away in this situation. Probably didn't even have AA.BigSlick

[Pupsta 0]

I've thought quite a bit about this post, and I don't think there's a wrong answer. Calling is okay with the limited information we have, and folding is okay as well. One of those odd "both ways are okay" hands.