Was This A Call Or Not?

[Scanner313 0]

I was playing in my regular 1/2 NLHE cash game Friday night at my usual card room and this happened...2 guys in the hand, river drops and player 1 pushes a $50 bet into a pot of about $140. From my viewpoint, it appears that player 2 pointed to player 1's hand (which was covering his cards) and says "What do you have there?". Player 1 proceeds to flip over his cards, exposing a made hand. Player 2 looks at him and kind of laughs, then folds his hand.So, player 1 says to 2 "What the hell was that?", whereby player 2 says "Hey, you flipped them over before I made my decision. I realized I was losing and folded." Player 1 erupts and says "Man, what the f*ck? You asked what I had which means you CALL!" Player 2 says "I didn't call anything. I was asking how much was in the pot."In all fairness, the pot was only about 4 inches away from player 1's hand, and his bet was in between his hand and the pot, so there is a chance player 2 was legitimately asking about the pot. However, player 1 swears that player 2 looked him dead in the eye when he asked "What do you have...".Now, I know player 2 well, and he's a very respected regular player at the club. He's in his 50's, his daughter is a dealer there, and his 3 sons play there as well. He's one of those guys who plays solid, and nobody questions his ethics. And I truly believe that if he had intended a call, he would have thrown his money in even knowing he was beat. Player 1, on the other hand, is a once a month type of guy, who's really not a good player, and has a reputation for being a whiner, and a massive bluffer. He's also got some strange ability to annoy people by making statements about things that get totally misconstrued as him accusing people of something (happened to me on this same night).Anyway, my questions is, whether or not player 2 was looking at player 1 when he asked that question, does it imply a call? Or is the fact that he did not say "call" leave him free to fold when player 1 turns over his hand?I know none of you were there to see exactly what happened, but what's your feeling?Just so you know, player 1 got so loud and excited that the security guard had to tell him to stop yelling and to sit down. The security guy is a monstrous former bodybuilder. Player 1 complied immediately. It was pretty amusing.

[Zach6668 513]

Player 1 is an idiot.

[troyomac 0]

player 2 didn't say "call" nor did he stick chips in the pot. therefore...no call

[teddyKGB 0]

No call....there was no motion to call or verbal declaration...oh yeahPlayer 1 is an idiot.

[compuease 0]

Player 1 is an idiot.

Where I'm from, even if player 2 was asking what "cards" player 1 had, it's not an implied call. No way.. Player 1 was doing the angling, if he genuinely was not sure if player 2 was calling, he would (should) have asked. Case closed...

[Mercury69 3]

Player 1 is an idiot, but player 2 is an *******. That's a Kathy Leibert-like angle shot, no doubt about it.

[Dr_Shakes 0]

Player 1 is an idiot, but player 2 is an *******. That's a Kathy Leibert-like angle shot, no doubt about it.

I don't see how player 2 is angling. You are trying to get information from your opponent if he is dumb enough to turn over his cards then too bad. Player one is an idiot and player 2 did nothing at all wrong.

[Scanner313 0]

Just a little more info on Player 1...This same night, he accused the dealer of flipping the river card over too fast. He claimed he couldn't see it. We were all like "What?! How the hell can't you see the card after it's placed on the table? And what does the speed with which it is flipped have to do with it?"Needless to say, he couldn't really give an answer. He just mumbled some crap that nobody could really understand. I think he realized how stupid his comment was after we all gave him sh*t about it.I think what he meant was it was flipped too far away, and I'm sure this guy has poor eyesight because he continuously stated to players (myself included) that they sucked out on him on the river, when the board showed clearly that he was beat on the flop or turn. He must have done this 4 or 5 times that night until I finally pointed it out to him and said "Hey, I had a pair of 10's on the flop. You had a pair of 8's after the showdown. How did you have me beat?" I think he's nearsighted or something.In any case, he's a nice enough guy, but not very bright and certainly not a good player. He just never stops whining about hands and stupid crap like how fast the cards come out.

[iggymcfly 0]

God, I hate players like Player 1. If there's more than one like him that play regularly somewhere, I quit going there altogether.

[GoStags92 0]

No call. Player 1 just needs to learn the game better. As for "implied" calls - there is no such thing. The act of calling or raising is a defined thing. The only way to call is to say, "I call" or push your chips in to the pot.My take on the situation was that Player 2 was either asking the size of the bet or how much $$ Player 1 had left.

[Canuckickstan 2]

I am going to the nearest casino to beat up player 1. What a ****.

[timwakefield 68]

That is hilarious! Player 2 asks him what he has, seemingly trying to get a read on him. And Player 1 just shows him his hand!!! Helluva read....

[AWaaz 0]

I know none of you were there to see exactly what happened, but what's your feeling?

Seems obvious... No call.If you are of the mindset that automatically thinks 'What you got there?' means 'call', then you should expect to lose the whole pot and not just the final bet. I would have loved to see that happen!

[DerekTah 0]

Ok, how many times have I seen on WPT or the many many poker shows, guys look at an opponent and say "what do you have?" or "do you have it?". They are looking for a reaction for a bluff/good hand/nuts, not for the person to outright flip their cards upPlayer 1 is an idiot and Player 2 did nothing wrong (I never played in cardroom or casino and I know this!)

[BeaverStyle 1]

Best. Read-getting. Question. Ever.He asks him what he has, and he shows him! Stuff like that doesn't even make the game fun anymore...oh yeahplayer 1 is an idiot.

[doublenikels 0]

Easy to figure out. Find out the club rules. Some are money in the pot and some are verbal as far as calling bets. I have only heard of 2 situations at legitimate card rooms where a call is binding. It is either saying 'call' or putting chips in the pot. Last time I was playing NL at a casino on the strip a guy even said 'call' and then asked what the bet was again and then folded. I was a little pissed because I told the dealer he called and the dealer did nothing about it because no chips had passed the line.

[Socrates 0]

Player 1 is an idiot. I can't count the times I've said "what do you have there?" after seeing a bet and the response is always the same, they count their chips, not turn over their cards.

[gkunit20 1]

If that's a call, Poker is shady. That was in no way a call.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

No call. Player 1 just needs to learn the game better.

[mcpickl 0]

of course its no call.i havent seen one hand that Esfandiari(sp?) has played on TV where if hes bet into on the river he hasn't said something like "what have you got there......?he always does it, no one has ever thought it was a call.

[SportsW234 0]

Defnitely not a call. The only thing I consider a call is if someone verbally says call or puts chips into the pot. I've never heard "What do you have there" by considered a call and never have met anyone who has.

[DMBroller 0]

While KFL does do some shady shite, I don't think Player 2 is intending to shoot any kind of angle. "Whatcha got there?" could be in reference to Player 1's bet, his stack, or trying to get a read. BTW if Player 1 could come here and post how he induces players to show their hand that would be golden.Player 1 is just mad b/c he lost a bet on the river after he donked over his cards. I don't see how ANY of Player 2's actions could be construed as a call.Player 1 is indeed an idiot.J

[krup24 0]

Wow you play with some morons ScannerI know we live in the same area and I play live regularly 2 but have never seen idiots like this. It seems every week you have something to post about these players.I play with fish who are not idiots just fish. At a 5-5 NL game over the weekend there was 9K + on the table in a 9 handed game. Just sick.

[Nikki_N 17]

I ask questions to players I'm heads up with all the time. Trying to get a read, and making conversation is so NOT a call. The guy who showed his cards made a big goof. It doesn't matter if the other guy was referring to the cards or the pot.

[Mercury69 3]

OK, so nobody else sees this as an angle shot? First, nobody knows for sure. Second, it seems like the guy gestured vaguely in the direction of the other players cards, stack, pot, whatever, but it's his QUESTION that is misleading:"What do you have there?" It's no mistake he said it like that. "How much is in the pot" or something else would have been more appropriate (how many ****ing P's in that word lol?). Anyway, I'm just saying, cause I wasn't there either, and there's no way I could possibly defend the idiot who turned over his cards but, if it's the heat of the moment and the angler has a read that the guy is nervous or a rookie or both, then his phrasing is an angle shot and the no_0b fell for it hook, line and sinker.I call angle shot, but the read that there is no call is correct, imo.