"ganging up" on an all-in

[crumy 0]

I have heard a lot of discussion about this topic and was recently presented with the choice. Which in turn resulted in a tremendous amount of discussion at the table.Situation:In a NL Game with about 400 entries we were down to 120 players. I had pocket KK (position 7). It there is one raise when it gets to me. At this time there were 4 people in and I re-raise to make the bet 3200. The BB goes all in because calling puts everything except 1000 in and the blinds are 400-800. So by the time we see a flop there are 3 people in. Me, Mr X , and the All-in.Flop comes.... misses me completely Q 6 8 . Mr X checks and I bet 800. MR. X calls. My K comes on the turn to make a set and Mr X. Checks. I bet 800 . Mr X to my surprise calls. So the river comes with a 2 for a board of Q 6 8 K 2. Mr. X checks and I bet 2400. Mr X then folds and begins to tell me what a terrible player I am by betting when it is 2 against 1 on an all in. I take the main and side pot as the BB had AQ.I know there are many opinion out there so I wanted to ask. Is there a right and wrong when it comes to this?

[76clubs 0]

I have heard a lot of discussion about this topic and was recently presented with the choice. Which in turn resulted in a tremendous amount of discussion at the table.Situation:In a NL Game with about 400 entries we were down to 120 players. I had pocket KK (position 7). It there is one raise when it gets to me. At this time there were 4 people in and I re-raise to make the bet 3200. The BB goes all in because calling puts everything except 1000 in and the blinds are 400-800. So by the time we see a flop there are 3 people in. Me, Mr X , and the All-in.Flop comes.... misses me completely Q 6 8 . Mr X checks and I bet 800. MR. X calls. My K comes on the turn to make a set and Mr X. Checks. I bet 800 . Mr X to my surprise calls. So the river comes with a 2 for a board of Q 6 8 K 2. Mr. X checks and I bet 2400. Mr X then folds and begins to tell me what a terrible player I am by betting when it is 2 against 1 on an all in. I take the main and side pot as the BB had AQ.I know there are many opinion out there so I wanted to ask. Is there a right and wrong when it comes to this?

It is wrong to bet if you have a draw, or to bluff, but in the situation you were in you played it well. that idiot was just steaming. nh

[Petoria 0]

you can bet if you have the nuts. I wouldnt have bet on the flop, but I put in a larger bet on the turn. On the flop you only have a pair, to bet you really should have more than that.Another problem with this situation that makes your betting line correct is that it's still fairly early in the tourney. You'll usually only see the implied checkdown if it's close to the bubble or at the final table or near to another increase in payout. Your play is fine.

[Stealth Beagle 0]

He's an idiot for calling you down. I'm all for checking it down under the right circumstances but when you play it like you did, clearly you have a hand. He was just bitter.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

If you're doing it with no hand, whatever. You had the nuts after the turn, though, so I don't see any problem with it. I don't have a problem with bluffing into a dry side pot, I guess. I don't appreciate it when it's done to me, but, if I"m doing it, it's because I want the main pot. That the number of chips in the middle is great enough in relation to my chipstack, that I'm going to give myself every advantage possible in getting them, i.e., bluffing you out of it.

[pokerplayer24 0]

If this is on the button and the pot is pretty meaningless. As in their is an all in for 450 at 200/400 blinds and I have 18k chips then I am checking it down. But if the pot is big and meaningful to my stack I want to protect my hand if I have a high pp or top pair.

[Iamaclone 0]

I think your bets are ok. He would have obviously called if he had a better hand, so it's not like he was folding the winner. The only time I think you shouldn't bet without the nuts would be if the payout changed based on one person being eliminated. You didn't mention if there was a possible flush on the board. If so, maybe you shouldn't have bet, since you could be pushing out a small flush that would have beaten the all in's smaller flush.Anyway, new to the forum. Hello everyone.

[crumy 0]

Yeah.. My belief is if we were near the money then yeah.. get a guy out to benefit both. After he went all-in he was no longer a part of the play. I wanted Mr X's chips. I agree that bluffing to start a side is bad business.

[scottyno 0]

with 120 left you're probably nowhere near cashing so its not a big deal if you eliminate this guy right now. You HAVE to bet your hand there.

[PimpRock 0]

With the stone cold nuts, you would be an aabsolute donk not to bet this hand...The whinging dude was obviously pissed and should have apologised immediately after seeing your hand.

[ben_wallace 0]

I'd be betting with anything except a bluff, im not gonig to bluff a guy to loose to an all in. Buta t the same time I want value for a hadn and jsut cause someone else is all in si no reason for me not to play my game the way I play it. It migth sound cutthroat but its my hand now, thats why tehy ahve side pots, so you can keep betting if you wish. My theory, bluff don't do it, with a hand play your normal game

[dms26 3]

checking with top set would be horrible, you never want to let an opponent hit a draw for free. do what's best for your situation and don't worry about what the other player thinks about it.usually it would be correct to check it down if you have a weak pair or nothing at all, but in this situation you have to bet.

[ajs1281 0]

The better play here is to keep an eye on the chipstacks, if you can realize that the blinds may go all in, you want to be half of thier stack, basically you can get them to reraise all in and you have KK, after they are all in you get Mr X to call his all-in, then you jam the pot because the betting is still open. Mr X has to fold, sure you get no sidepot, but you are playing heads up for a pot worth triple the short stacks stack. If Mr X calls you, you have KK and are sitting in solid shape.So instead of popping it to 3200, pop it to 2k, still a nice raise, and also easier to walk away from if an ace hits if one of the shorter stacks doesnt push all-in preflop.But to answer your question, nothing wrong with betting the turn and the river, the flop i probably check

[tskillz187 0]

It's not a team game! It's anyones pot for the taking, its not like you bluffed into it and protected the all in player, that is borderline collusion or just horrible play. You bet a strong hand! Paul Phillips wrote something about dry side pots and how he would hope people dont think hes checking down. Even when the payouts are in effect, you should measure the importance of eliminating a hand and giving yourself a better chance to build your stack vs having a better opportunity to eliminating a player. If you think its in your best interest to bet at it with a middle PP then do so!

[goose 0]

DOWN TO 120 PLAYERS? This whole knocking a guy out stuff only applies when there's like 3% of the field left.

[jayboogie 0]

Your opponent is just an idiot. I'd love to be in a pot with someone who won't bet and protect their overpair and let me suck out 2 pair or something because of it. The bet on the flop is pretty automatic here IMO. The side pot may be dry, but you'd feel pretty stupid checking the flop and letting your opponent in the hand catch an Ace or 2 pair by checking.Assuming there's no 3 flush on board, you have the absolute nuts on the turn and river, so it'd be stupid not to bet at this point.

[bm99 0]

DOWN TO 120 PLAYERS? This whole knocking a guy out stuff only applies when there's like 3% of the field left.

Yeah, that is pretty ridiculous that the guy got mad at a point where it makes almost no difference in the tourney. This only comes into play down the the final table or sometimes final few tables. In a tourney of 3000 players, even at the final 3% there would be too many left for it to matter significantly.

[telescop 0]

Good play, Mr. X is an idiot.

[mrgibb 0]

I have heard a lot of discussion about this topic and was recently presented with the choice. Which in turn resulted in a tremendous amount of discussion at the table.Situation:In a NL Game with about 400 entries we were down to 120 players. I had pocket KK (position 7). It there is one raise when it gets to me. At this time there were 4 people in and I re-raise to make the bet 3200. The BB goes all in because calling puts everything except 1000 in and the blinds are 400-800. So by the time we see a flop there are 3 people in. Me, Mr X , and the All-in.Flop comes.... misses me completely Q 6 8 . Mr X checks and I bet 800. MR. X calls. My K comes on the turn to make a set and Mr X. Checks. I bet 800 . Mr X to my surprise calls. So the river comes with a 2 for a board of Q 6 8 K 2. Mr. X checks and I bet 2400. Mr X then folds and begins to tell me what a terrible player I am by betting when it is 2 against 1 on an all in. I take the main and side pot as the BB had AQ.I know there are many opinion out there so I wanted to ask. Is there a right and wrong when it comes to this?

There is really no right or wrong when it comes to this. There was nothing on the flop that you had to worry about. Like pervious people said "this is not a team game"The correct thing to do is check on the flop, turn and river.UNLESS no one improves. If someone bet on the flop and it was enough to make you think that they hit the set or had aces. The 800 bet should have been enough to scare him but he still called. IMO it was his mistake to call the 800 on the flop.

[Canada 0]

There is an extremely decent sized pot here. Over 10BB. Those chips benefit you a lot more than knocking out a player when you are miles outside the money.You need to maximise your chances of winning the pot, and I think your only mistake was the bet on the flop. It should have been a lot bigger to protect your hand.I'm even making continuation bets here with AK to try and get it heads up with the all-in player as it has showdown value.

[bryan21 0]

imho, the all in guy doesn't even matter in this situation. A lot of clowns want free cards and if you give them, you stand a chance of some chucklehead drawing out on you. You have the hand so you bet it. You played exactly right. You didn't need to have better than a pair here to bet, that's just ridiculous thinking. You had an overpair to the board and that's all you needed to make a bet. You bet if you got it and don't if you don't.The guy that berrated you for betting into just wanted some free cards. He read somewhere that you should just check it down so thats what he does. He's an idiot for believing it, he's and idiot for doing it and he's an idiot for preaching it. You made the correct decisions all the way!!!

[blakheart 3]

Mr. X is an idiot. The only reason to check it down is if it missed you completely, or if you are in a unique situation late in a tournament. If it is very late in a tournament and a short stack goes all in, and you call with a large stack you may want to check it down. That would be becuase the chips in the pot are less important than the implied odds of moving up one more spot in the money. However, that is a unique situation. And even then, if you make a hand you will probably want to bet. You just want to avoid a stone cold bluff in that situation. In fact, another perfectly acceptable play is to come over the top for a big raise after a number of callers of an all in. You then may end up heads up with a ton of dead money in the pot.In this case, your bets are perfectly ok. There is a lot of money in the pot and you want it. What if Mr. X had AJ, and the original All in had a low pair, you want to bet the flop to push Mr X out in case an Ace comes on the turn or the river. After the turn, you are just trying to maximize your winnings. Really there are plenty of good reason to bet this hand, and no good reasons to check.Nice play.

[blakheart 3]

I have heard a lot of discussion about this topic and was recently presented with the choice. Which in turn resulted in a tremendous amount of discussion at the table.Situation:In a NL Game with about 400 entries we were down to 120 players. I had pocket KK (position 7). It there is one raise when it gets to me. At this time there were 4 people in and I re-raise to make the bet 3200. The BB goes all in because calling puts everything except 1000 in and the blinds are 400-800. So by the time we see a flop there are 3 people in. Me, Mr X , and the All-in.Flop comes.... misses me completely Q 6 8 . Mr X checks and I bet 800. MR. X calls. My K comes on the turn to make a set and Mr X. Checks. I bet 800 . Mr X to my surprise calls. So the river comes with a 2 for a board of Q 6 8 K 2. Mr. X checks and I bet 2400. Mr X then folds and begins to tell me what a terrible player I am by betting when it is 2 against 1 on an all in. I take the main and side pot as the BB had AQ.I know there are many opinion out there so I wanted to ask. Is there a right and wrong when it comes to this?

There is really no right or wrong when it comes to this. There was nothing on the flop that you had to worry about. Like pervious people said "this is not a team game"The correct thing to do is check on the flop, turn and river.UNLESS no one improves. If someone bet on the flop and it was enough to make you think that they hit the set or had aces. The 800 bet should have been enough to scare him but he still called. IMO it was his mistake to call the 800 on the flop.

Agreed- Mr X is calling you down with TPTK in this situation, where most people will not bet here with anything less than that. So he has to put you on a range of hands that include AQ as the worst possible holding. In his shoes you have at least AQ, if not a set, 2 pair or an over pair. When you are really in a situation to check it down most people will not bet unless they have a really good hand, my guess would be 2 pair minnimum. His calls are terrible.

[Rags4Me 0]

I agree with everyone else... don't let the donks get into your head. Like others have said bluffing into a dry side pot is a bad play, but considering that the pot was already substantial, I would have put in a significant bet on the flop to protect my hand against a weak Ace hitting a lucky turn.

[sirch1 0]

It doesnt matter waht you do no play is right or wrong. This is why it is poker if you are trying to take it down to heads up with the allin and not get sucked out on then make the bet and if you are trying to just eliminate the other player check it down to the river. I have posts from good players and books and aa lot of pros will always bet the dry pot contrary to what you would think. The only time that they dont do this is on the bubble and if they are in jeopardy of not making it but with a chip stack and this doesnt happen.