FCPHA: Big Table in the Back

[Whiskey16 1]

No intellectual debate? For some reason, I'm not surprised...

There's no debating with you, when all of your arguments are circular.Don't spend money on the military, but get the military involved, but be peaceful and negotiate, because they don't really hate America, and they're not happy when we're attacked by terrorits, but allies of the US are more likely to be attacked.If I understood a single argument you were making, I'd be inclined to be a part of the discussion, but since you've straddled both sides of the line, and you're telling a member of the USMC that he basically doesn't know what's happening over there, I choose to just sit on the side and laugh.

You're saying we wouldn't have been able to negotiate 9 years ago (1997), when we didn't spend near as much on the military?I call bullshit

I'm saying you're naive if you don't think there were negotiations well before that. Once there wasn't room for negotiations, the money needed to be spent. I don't like the war, I'd like to see more money spent at home, I think the war is in some ways a necessity, though, and if the troops are there to provide me with this blanket of freedom, then I want them fully funded.

[dms26 3]

So, you're saying that Iranians are heartless and would celebrate the killing of innocent Americans?WRONG (with exceptions, of course).

have you really forgotten Sep 11th? People cheering in the streets when they heard about it?

[Painter567 0]

hmm...i'm gonna go w/ answer B on this one

You flyin out of Tampa? When? Time date?

[renaedawn 1]

O rly? You think if they did exactly what they're doing now without the US as a superpower, they'd be subject to terrorist attacks and wars? I doubt that. In fact, it seems that, in the eyes of the terrorists, if you're an ally of the US, you're MORE likely to be hit by an attack, not less likely.

I think that Germany, France, Canada, Spain, Italy, lots and lots of countries are able to live the way they live because of the US and to a lesser extent Great Britain and Australia. Without that protection, they would have to build their own military that is capable of defending their entire country. They would then be having to make these tough choices that America has to make in deciding what can be overlooked and what simply cannot for the safety of their own country (and in the US's case, most of the world). They would then be having these same discussions we are having about military force vs leading by example. They are able to only live by example because they don't have to balance that double edged sword as we have to try to do.It's apples/oranges.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

I think this is a prime example of one school of thinking vs another and this is about where we hit a dead end. You seem to see the desire to negotiate and end conflicts through peaceful measures as a weakness and the only way to prove that you're better than them is to blow them up. I'm not saying there aren't times to use force. But I AM saying there are more times where diplomacy and negotiation work much better than force.And before you say it, negotiation is NOT "You agree to our terms and we won't blow you off the face of the earth," like we're doing with Iran. Negotiation is give and take.Clinton didn't "lack balls" when he got involved in Serbia. Or when he was being blown by the moderate-looking intern. JS.

I am all for negotiations but have too learn the lessons of Chamberlain. If you don't understand that then you loose. I don't belive that we have made any statemnets like that to Iran but maybe Israel should.Wow he took on a war where all he had to do was send in the Airforce. This after he tucked his tail between his legs and ran from Somalia. Using your power to take avantage of a young girls shows what scum he really was. Not ballsy in the least.

[booyaga 0]

You flyin out of Tampa? When? Time date?

yah...out of tampa....9:15pm on wed.

[jeff_536 3]

blah, blah, blah LUBE, blah, blah, blah, LUBE, blah, blah, VEGAS

This is all i saw. Glad your eyes are okay.

[PCPinkoLiberal 0]

There's no debating with you, when all of your arguments are circular.Don't spend money on the military, but get the military involved, but be peaceful and negotiate, because they don't really hate America, and they're not happy when we're attacked by terrorits, but allies of the US are more likely to be attacked.If I understood a single argument you were making, I'd be inclined to be a part of the discussion, but since you've straddled both sides of the line, and you're telling a member of the USMC that he basically doesn't know what's happening over there, I choose to just sit on the side and laugh.

You've actually done a very good job of misunderstanding essentially every argument I'm making. I'm impressed.I'll try to make this a little clearer:I'd like to cut back on the amount of money we spend on the military, not eliminate it. With less funding, it wouldn't make sense to start wars that aren't neccessary for our security. Use the military for war when we have to, and increase spending as neccessary - not at will. The military we have (the troops that aren't being used for war) would then be used for peacekeeping in other countries and to defend the homeland. They hate us because they see us as imperialists invading their country and their way of life and they are more willing to execute terrorist attacks on those countries that are allied with the people they see as imperialists (us) than anyone else.I'm not telling a member of the USMC that he doesn't know what's happening. I'm telling him that I disagree with his opinion. There's a difference, and I would think someone...older....would see it.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

OMBT

[Smacciemac 3]

This is all i saw. Glad your eyes are okay.

Hehe Thanks

[PCPinkoLiberal 0]

have you really forgotten Sep 11th? People cheering in the streets when they heard about it?

Have you really forgotten that that footage was propoganda and they weren't actually cheering in the streets because of 9/11? It was footage from a celebration of some kind...I don't remember the name of it, unfortunately.

Using your power to take avantage of a young girls shows what scum he really was. Not ballsy in the least.

Ahh, I see. He took advantage of a 20-something "girl." She obviously can't make her own decisions.And it was a tounge-in-cheek joke anyway that you obviously are too serious to get right now.

[dms26 3]

So, if I read this right, you're saying that I should give up hope of a peaceful world and peaceful countries and develop new beliefs based on how others run their lives?Personally, I'd rather live in a just, fair, and free nation than one that only looks out for the bottom line.

war has been going on for thousands of years, you think it's going to magically stop and everyone is going to decide to get along?

[booyaga 0]

Have you really forgotten that that footage was propoganda and they weren't actually cheering in the streets because of 9/11? It was footage from a celebration of some kind...I don't remember the name of it, unfortunately.

unfortunately, i saw celebrating first hand. there is a large arabic population in paterson nj. i live in the city right next to it. when i drove through, i saw people jumpin' up and down.

[PCPinkoLiberal 0]

war has been going on for thousands of years, you think it's going to magically stop and everyone is going to decide to get along?

So, we should be going to war because it's been the world's tradition for thousands of years?Nobody thinks it's magically going to stop. But, that doesn't mean we should be promoting it as anything other than a last resort.

unfortunately, i saw celebrating first hand. there is a large arabic population in paterson nj. i live in the city right next to it. when i drove through, i saw people jumpin' up and down.

That is unfortunate. However, it was a very minute reaction. Most of the world, including most of the people in the middle east and far east, was not jumping up and down.

[jeff_536 3]

In exactly ONE WEEK, my plane will be landing back in Buffalo....

[Painter567 0]

Because we need this right now.....VEGAS BABY VEGAS!

[Smacciemac 3]

unfortunately, i saw celebrating first hand. there is a large arabic population in paterson nj. i live in the city right next to it. when i drove through, i saw people jumpin' up and down.

They were partying all over NJ.. I'm suprised some of them didn't get killed that day by angry Americans.. especially because it was in this area..

[jeff_536 3]

Oh, I'm very calm. But I just don't understand how people will speak up for some of these other countries. Seriously, do you think anyone over there would give a rats arse if the same thing was going on over here? No, they'd probably be celebrating in the streets cause American's are killing American's, and they don't have to worry about our 'beliefs' or killing us themselves.

so you think we should all act the same as the lowest common demoninator...nice outlook.

[Whiskey16 1]

You've actually done a very good job of misunderstanding essentially every argument I'm making. I'm impressed.I'll try to make this a little clearer:I'd like to cut back on the amount of money we spend on the military, not eliminate it. With less funding, it wouldn't make sense to start wars that aren't neccessary for our security. Use the military for war when we have to, and increase spending as neccessary - not at will. The military we have (the troops that aren't being used for war) would then be used for peacekeeping in other countries and to defend the homeland. They hate us because they see us as imperialists invading their country and their way of life and they are more willing to execute terrorist attacks on those countries that are allied with the people they see as imperialists (us) than anyone else. I'm not telling a member of the USMC that he doesn't know what's happening. I'm telling him that I disagree with his opinion. There's a difference, and I would think someone...older....would see it.

Can you name the countries that we invaded prior to their blowing up the World Trade Center? I slept a lot during US history, so I'm sure I forgot when we had invaded Afghanistan.

[dms26 3]

At the risk of losing my liberal title, they get along just fine because we are their allies and we are a superpower. If we suddenly were not a superpower, Europe would be a bit more frightened than they currently are.We defend a lot more than just America for your tax dollars.

and the French would be speaking German along with possibly the rest of Europe

[PCPinkoLiberal 0]

so you think we should all act the same as the lowest common demoninator...nice outlook.

It's about time! Did someone pop your wheelchair's tires?

[SAM_Hard8 50]

One last thought Doug, these wondefull peacfull people you want to negotiate with would stone you to death if they had a chance because of your sexual orientation!

[Whiskey16 1]

unfortunately, i saw celebrating first hand. there is a large arabic population in paterson nj. i live in the city right next to it. when i drove through, i saw people jumpin' up and down.

And then get to live here and enjoy the freedom's and safety provided by our government and laws. Brilliant.

Can you name the countries that we invaded prior to their blowing up the World Trade Center? I slept a lot during US history, so I'm sure I forgot when we had invaded Afghanistan.

Oh, yeah, and the nationality of the majority of the people that attacked us, Saudi Arabian, are from a country that was considered an allie. So when did we invade them to provoke their terroritst attack?

[PCPinkoLiberal 0]

Can you name the countries that we invaded prior to their blowing up the World Trade Center? I slept a lot during US history, so I'm sure I forgot when we had invaded Afghanistan.

You misunderstand. They saw us as invading them (not that we actually are), not physically (well, until post-9/11, anyway), but economically (which is far more substantial) and politically. They saw us as forcing sanctions, companies, and our way of life down their throats.(Though, Al Qaueda got really pissed when we occupied...I think it was north saudi arabia? after we finished defending Kuwait. I may have the country wrong there.

[Whiskey16 1]

One last thought Doug, these wondefull peacfull people you want to negotiate with would stone you to death if they had a chance because of your sexual orientation!

And for looking at that picture you posted above, you'd have to kill yourself for looking the flesh of another women.

You misunderstand. They saw us as invading them (not that we actually are), not physically (well, until post-9/11, anyway), but economically (which is far more substantial) and politically. They saw us as forcing sanctions, companies, and our way of life down their throats.(Though, Al Qaueda got really pissed when we occupied...I think it was north saudi arabia? after we finished defending Kuwait. I may have the country wrong there.

Ahhhh, well, now that you can clearly explain to me what the people of all these different nations in the Middle East were thinking, I understand much better now.