Play The Cards With Spades To Start

[mtdesmoines 3]

BAH. 2/5/500I just sat, so everyone's pretty much got me covered.About three orbits into the game. Rumor is that the game had been going nuts before I sat, and there's about 5 bad players sitting at this game. It seemed like the game was enjoying a lull of sorts now. I have about $600, I straddle to restart the action; there are 7 limpers to me, and I look down at AsKs. I raise to $55 and get 7 callers. All five monkeys are seeing this flop.Ad 2c 3c. BB checks. Action is on hero.What are our options?

[MaxStPolish 4]

About three orbits into the game. Rumor is that the game had been going nuts before I sat, and there's about 5 bad players sitting at this game. It seemed like the game was enjoying a lull of sorts now. I have about $600, I straddle to restart the action; there are 7 limpers to me, and I look down at AsKs. I raise to $55 and get 7 callers. All five monkeys are seeing this flop.Ad 2c 3c. BB checks. Action is on hero.What are our options?

Is this 3/6? Regardless, after sighing watching each of these hobos calling 55 pre......You have a 400+ buck pot already with 500+ behind. In this example ranges seem to be out the window. I'd be scared to lead out because what do you lead out with here? I mean you truly have no clue where you stand. You have to think you are ahead. But because of the style going on and the ridiculous call chain, I mean A3-A2-22-33 are all possible holdings that would have you dominated. I'd like to thing no one is sitting on the wheel, but donk + suited connectors means it could be in a range for a 55 buck pre flop bet, theoretically. I think you would almost have to fire out a 180 buck continuation bet with the intent of calling any raise, or giving yourself some cushion to drop out if you get multi-callers and a club or 4th wheel card hits on the turn. I don't think checking TPTK is right here....but it's hard to value play at the pot, since it's gotten so bloated right out of the gate. If it's really a donkish enough group you could get looked up wiht guys ranging from club draws to Ax's and make a ton going this route. there's just so many possible hands out there with 7 callers. If you feel you are still leading this group I probably just shove. Hope they all go away with their garbage, and hope someone looks you up light and you hold for a monster pot.....but this route doesn't give any flex room at all if/when a villian hits gin on the flop or some crap.What's the average stack size. Are we stacking on a loss in this hand if we push?

[tskillz187 0]

Shoveski. It's a bit of an over bet but it's your only play.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I raise to $55 and get 7 callers.

I LOL'dwell, monkeys will sure jump on the bed, but are they capable of accidentally folding an ace if you shove?I don't think I can fold, and I certainly think at least one baboon has an A, so I don't mind going for a CRAI

[KingJames 11]

I LOL'dwell, monkeys will sure jump on the bed, but are they capable of accidentally folding an ace if you shove?I don't think I can fold, and I certainly think at least one baboon has an A, so I don't mind going for a CRAI

Ha! I'd just shove assuming that one "baboon" will call. It's slightly over a psb, but no point in any less...Weeeeeeeee for easy money!Text wife/gf; "printing money, don't wait up for me!"

[MaxStPolish 4]

Thought about it more....just spew the load. There is going to be at least one ace out there, and if these goons have any proficiency, there should be at least one guy that is holding AQ-AT. Hopefully the second A-x is 4-9 and not 2/3. there's really no trick that can be pulled in a 500 buck pot like this on the flop. Get it in, hope it stayed and stays good.My prior concern is that the game is obviously really loose. And if you are down at this point, you are DOMINATED. But you gotta price those flush draws out and assume you've held good.....and cry the times when the flush draw jumps in the pool anyways and finds riches.

[qnshustler 0]

Shoveski. It's a bit of an over bet but it's your only play.

+1

[SCS 0]

Shoveski. It's a bit of an over bet but it's your only play.

This.No one is folding an A or flush draw.

[rrumsey 0]

I think that the good thing is that at least one of them probably has an A ( maybe even 2 or 3) so we are almost sure we are probably ahead and hopefully if someone did somehow spike a 2 pair we have outs with the king. The only time we hate life is when we have run into a set and basically drawing to a chop pot at best. SHOVE and PRAY. Very similar to pull and pray lol this is risky but shit you can't fold.

[Daemon10 0]

Yes you can fold, if its that loose, and there are even comptent players that are at the end of the cchain, then what about 4,5 being a hand, there is so much that beats you.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Yes you can fold, if its that loose, and there are even comptent players that are at the end of the cchain, then what about 4,5 being a hand, there is so much that beats you.

Folding here is terrible imo. There is a ton in the pot, and just because they can show up with donk hands that are ahead does not mean we should give up the tremendous equity we have against hands they'll go broke on that are much worse.

[starfit 0]

Shove and rebuy.

[ghostlove 0]

check/raise?

[Dubey 1,035]

this is a 2-5 game, and the straddle is $10, correct?I would have started by making it $80-100 preflop. With all those limpers, 5.5x BB is not enough to get anyone to fold.as played, shove and get called by worse a fair bit of the time. If you lose, rebuy for the max and be glad the poker gods have blessed you with such a table.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Everyone about ready for the conclusion of the hand?

[qnshustler 0]

Everyone about ready for the conclusion of the hand?

You shoved and got called by the straight, a set, ace rag, and a flush draw...ace rag hit runner runner rags to scoop it...right?

[Dubey 1,035]

judging from your other post from the same table where your stack was $1600, I'm guessing you shoved and got called by A7 and held somehow?

[SCS 0]

Yes you can fold, if its that loose, and there are even comptent players that are at the end of the cchain, then what about 4,5 being a hand, there is so much that beats you.

The fact that the other players are very loose is even more reason to shove flop.

[BaseJester 1]

I think that the good thing is that at least one of them probably has an A ( maybe even 2 or 3) so we are almost sure we are probably ahead . . .

Magic 8-ball: My sources say no.

[mtdesmoines 3]

OK, so I figured there wasn't much chance of there being a set of 2s or 3s, and if there is, we just lose and that's OK. There's no set of aces; there just isn't and I hope I don't have to explain why. So we kinda flopped the stone cold nuts as far as we know.Flush draws are shoving over a weak lead most of the time and with only a BI+change, I'm sticking it in with them. Flopped straight -- if it's there, it's there / whatever.So ... I figured my best chance of maximizing action would be to lead small, hoping another ace would follow me into the pot.It was gambling sort of hard that a flush draw would shove instead of calling. However, if the flush draw just called, I could muck the turn if it hit and shove it if it didn't.But if I could get another ace to call a relatively small lead (considering the pot size), their ace would be completely un-foldable at the turn. I cut $225 out, slid it in.I'd like to hear evaluation of my play.

[KoRnholio 2]

You don't have much more than a pot sized bet left, so just stick it in. If these monkies called $55 with A-x preflop, they sure as hell aren't going to fold in a huge pot getting 2+:1 after they hit their magic ace!

[qnshustler 0]

OK, so I figured there wasn't much chance of there being a set of 2s or 3s, and if there is, we just lose and that's OK. There's no set of aces; there just isn't and I hope I don't have to explain why. So we kinda flopped the stone cold nuts as far as we know.Flush draws are shoving over a weak lead most of the time and with only a BI+change, I'm sticking it in with them. Flopped straight -- if it's there, it's there / whatever.So ... I figured my best chance of maximizing action would be to lead small, hoping another ace would follow me into the pot.It was gambling sort of hard that a flush draw would shove instead of calling. However, if the flush draw just called, I could muck the turn if it hit and shove it if it didn't.But if I could get another ace to call a relatively small lead (considering the pot size), their ace would be completely un-foldable at the turn. I cut $225 out, slid it in.I'd like to hear evaluation of my play.

Your reasoning is fine, but I'm not comfortable with betting this amount instead of just shoving. What was your plan if someone shoved over your bet? Sounds like your planning on calling since you said a flush draw would shove on top, in that case I'd personally rather just shove first. Also you are offering almost exactly 3:1 odds to anyone who wants to just flat your bet, so if say someone is in there with the nut flush draw (they can hit a club or the kicker on their ace to take the lead) they have OK odds to make the call; and if one player flats you with Ax then anyone else with just a naked flush draw has the odds to come along for a the ride. Yea, maybe you can get away if the flush comes, etc, but I hate betting amounts that make it correct for people to try and draw out on me; your goal is to make them call when their pot odds are unfavorable, no? Given how much you have left there is really no point in making any bet other than a shove. Most Ax's will call you and you may get a flush draw to come along also but at least you made them overpay if they want to try and catch.

[trystero 0]

I don't think the bet's badWe're going to try and get it all in no matter what and we have two streets to do so. If we believe that an ace will call a smaller bet then there's no reason to shove this flop. I don't think it matters much simply because a lot of live players like to evaluate bets in terms of their real dollars. I mean, yeah, they all called $55 pf (lol), but once we hit the flop and A9s is facing $200+ he might not like it so much. So I don't think shaving off $200 is really going to matter, though maybe it does 1/8 times.We're obviously calling a shove otfA flush draw is never, ever folding, so don't ever expect a shove to get FE from it. And don't worry so much about giving it bad odds by outright shoving because our objective is to manipulate the betting size, i.e. encourage it to shove when clearly behind. So a FD can think, "well, if I c/r shove here I probably have FE % of the time, blah blah blah, clearly EV" when in fact the result is equivalent to a shove/call since we know, beforehand, that we are not folding, and that we're trying to trap worse aces and draws.I suppose every so often we find ourselves in a tough spot by betting small relative to the pot size, but whatever

[MaxStPolish 4]

I wouldn't "expect" the shove from a flush draw. Besides that I think your analysis is very founded. The more I think about it the more I agree with it. I think it's very appropriate comparable to your holding and your analysis of your villian's general range. I get nervous playing for value when a pot is that big preflop personally.So what happens when you get one or two callers that come along for the ride and a 3rd club hits the turn? You are OOP so if you check it's very possible someone fires out at you hard, flush or not. Are you committing yourself to this hand, or are you truly giving yourself leeway to bail out on the turn if faced with a club and villain resistance? I'm just curious what you would do. Would you still bet out? I assume the brakes get applied, but what about a big bet back at you?I dunno, I guess it's my style of play to jam this flop, even with your frame of mind, to make any flush draw pay well out of their odds to fish, and hope a lesser A comes along for the ride.Technically this could be considered a leak in my game though, as it would be much more +EV i think to try and keep a lesser A around for at least one more street. Not to mention that by keeping them around one more street, you probably effectively price them in to call the turn too and then you stack them.I agree with your line. I need to grow the stones to run it tho. I can't give 0% to 22/33 being in the range though. A nitty table is prime for set mining in ridiculous situations. Heck...technically the last limper is getting the about the right price to mine here, and definitely with implied odds (ESPECIALLY with those low of pairs), to go fishing with 22/33, even if a competent player, which is a sick explanation of this table when you think about it

[Jadaki 0]

This wasn't at PM was it?