Something Bad Is Gonna Happen To Ap

[cubsfan44 0]

I look at it like this. At my B&M, if there's collusion in the 5/10 PLO game, I'm not gonna stop playing 2/5 NLHE.

This is a terrible analogy

1. Yes.2. It's called sweeping it under the rug, and handling things behind closed doors. Stuff will come out if it happens, but AP not making a public admission of the cheating is completely irrelevant to whether or not they will reimburse people who were scammed.3. Dude. I can't imagine how you'd expect AP to pick up on this on their own. The only way people like this are ever caught is because of people who suspect something either contact the site to prompt an investigation, or investigate it themselves. Major sites can't possibly examine every single HH to see if there's a pattern of collusion or scamming without at least something to prompt the investigation.

Id expect them to review any and all $1000 buyin final tables. Im pretty sure this is standard at almost every online site for the very big buy in tournies.Logical thinking tells me this aint the only players or times that this has happened. With reasonable certainty you can say that there are smarter "superusers" out there, quite possibly at some other sites too. Legally nothing can be done to these cheating players right? No risk all rewardThe way AP is handling this is pathetic

[Abbaddabba 0]

you're naive if you dont think that security has been compromised at every site at some point, to some degree.the part that rubs people the wrong way is how absolute dealt with it.i think that if it does exist at the moment, it isnt widespread enough to affect my decision to play there.the benefits they offer more than justify the risk. if my results decline severely or i notice a lot of really sketchy things, ill start playing elsewhere.

[vbnautilus 48]

I know its bad to have a system where someone can gain access to hole cards, but in reading this thread on P5's I really can't help but think the bigger crime is the organization of the pocketfives forum. I mean seriously, who can actually read that?

[Jargonator 0]

Cross posted from p5s & 2+2, more evidence...."Holy [censored], I think I found him and I'm like 99% sure this is not a coincidence. Skip to the bolded text if you don't care about the details.I put all of the IP/email address lines in the following type of SQL table:CREATE TABLE `ipinfo` (`table` int(3) NOT NULL,`date` datetime NOT NULL,`action` varchar(10) NOT NULL,`email` varchar(80) NOT NULL,`userid` int(15) NOT NULL,`ip` varchar(25) NOT NULL,`port` int(8) NOT NULL) ENGINE=MyISAM DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;Then I ran the following query:SELECT *FROM `ipinfo`GROUP BY `email`ORDER BY `ip` ASCIt returned 267 rows.Then in the IP range starting with 200, there are two guys with identical IPs. snagglepuss alerted me to these two guys earlier. But here's the evidence on one of the guys:1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on3. He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table until at least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)4. His IP address is based in Costa Rica.5. This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he was created in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are in the 6 or 7 figures.I think this tells me that there was some sort of inside job going on.I will withhold his IP and email for the time being."no way they can keep denying this shit.

[vbnautilus 48]

I don't really understand, someone with a low userid sat with potripper? how exactly is that evidence of foul play?

[Jargonator 0]

I don't really understand, someone with a low userid sat with potripper? how exactly is that evidence of foul play?

The low user id suggest its an admin account,they are playing from very similar IPs both from Costa Rica,The observer account could have been the one with access to hole cards and was giving all the info to the POTRIPPER account.thats my take on it anyway

[vbnautilus 48]

The low user id suggest its an admin account,they are playing from very similar IPs both from Costa Rica,The observer account could have been the one with access to hole cards and was giving all the info to the POTRIPPER account.thats my take on it anyway

I dunno, was this "observer" account always at the table when the alleged cheating was going on? If not, this seems pretty irrelevant to me.

[Jargonator 0]

I dunno, was this "observer" account always at the table when the alleged cheating was going on? If not, this seems pretty irrelevant to me.

1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on3. He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table until at least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)

The observer was at his table from 9.00-11.20, i presume POTRIPPER was then moved to a different table and the observer probably followed, but i don't think whoever got this evidence was able to check this yet.

[vbnautilus 48]

The observer was at his table from 9.00-11.20, i presume POTRIPPER was then moved to a different table and the observer probably followed, but i don't think whoever got this evidence was able to check this yet.

Ok, sorry to be nitpicker here, but can you explain if possible what it means that he was observing? This is not someone involved in the tourney, seated at the table? How are there records of who is "observing" and how did this person access them? (was this info in the leaked email they sent to crazymarco?

[Zach6668 513]

Doesn't explain the tourney hands.Wait, the observer can see the hands?

[Jargonator 0]

Ok, sorry to be nitpicker here, but can you explain if possible what it means that he was observing? This is not someone involved in the tourney, seated at the table? How are there records of who is "observing" and how did this person access them? (was this info in the leaked email they sent to crazymarco?

I don't know how they got it, as i haven't read all the 2+2 thread yet, you can prob get more info there.

[vbnautilus 48]

I read the 2+2 thread. Seems to me everyone is in a frenzy and jumping on every little piece of information as the "smoking gun". People are talking about how "damning" the evidence is, but from my own reading it's all very circumstantial and conjectural. I read through A LOT of the hand histories. I saw some that didn't make sense if he was seeing all hole cards. The fact that someone with a low userid was observing his table for so long fits certain conspiracy theories but on its own really doesn't mean anything. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I am not yet convinced and currently very wary of internet hysteria/witch hunt mentality.

[scram 1]

Where is AP based?

[vbnautilus 48]

Where is AP based?

“Absolute Poker and this web site is the sole, true and lawful property of “Tokwiro Enterprises Enrg”, whose operations are located on the south shore of the St. Lawrence River, nine (9) miles south of downtown Montreal, Quebec, Canada, located on lands known as the Mohawk (Kanien:kaha’ka) Territory of Kahnawake, belonging to the Mohawk Nation.http://www.absolutepoker.net/about-us/Index.html

[scram 1]

The Costa Rica thing seems odd to me...Aren't a number of other online poker sites based in Costa Rica?Does anyone know of any connection- either direct or tangential- that would create a nexus between AP/AP interested parties and Costa Rica?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

To my knowledge most of AP's operations are in Costa Rica.Sites don't run operations out of Quebec, that is where the servers are located.

[scram 1]

To my knowledge most of AP's operations are in Costa Rica.Sites don't run operations out of Quebec, that is where the servers are located.

Well, that's the gin card, right there.Now, it's pretty much 100% certain this whole thing is an inside job. More than likely, it was a tech or programmer who was technologically smarter than the people who hired him (duh- that's why he was hired).I've been crowing about this for years now- that the people who assemble and run online poker sites as "businesses" have very little actual technical knowledge and it's only a matter of time before someone in their tech area makes a little something "special" for himself. As someone who has paid Indians to code my sites, I understand this dynamic pretty well and it's always scared the shit out of me.

[vbnautilus 48]

Yeah I've seen some other websites where they are listed as being registered in Costa Rica, and it looks like they had some kind of internship program in costa rica as well, so it definitely seems they are or were at some time operating from costa rica.

[RDog 0]

I read the 2+2 thread. Seems to me everyone is in a frenzy and jumping on every little piece of information as the "smoking gun". People are talking about how "damning" the evidence is, but from my own reading it's all very circumstantial and conjectural. I read through A LOT of the hand histories. I saw some that didn't make sense if he was seeing all hole cards. The fact that someone with a low userid was observing his table for so long fits certain conspiracy theories but on its own really doesn't mean anything. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I am not yet convinced and currently very wary of internet hysteria/witch hunt mentality.

100% this person had access to hole cards. It is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to play the way he did without knowing what cards the others were holding. I'm not saying 99% impossible or probable, it is 100% impossible.The reason the low id came about is because it leads to the fact that it is likely an inside job. I'm not positive they ever said it was an observer for sure did they? I just assumed the IP they were talking about was Potripper. I just got back and haven't caught up on things for an hour or 2.Edit: He does say it is an observer. I think he said both the Potripper and Observer ID's were in Costa Rica.Also, someone asked how they got this info. Yes, the geniuses at AP with their great security and customer service sent out all IP's and email addresses in the hand history they sent Marco.

[vbnautilus 48]

100% this person had access to hole cards. It is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to play the way he did without knowing what cards the others were holding. I'm not saying 99% impossible or probable, it is 100% impossible.The reason the low id came about is because it leads to the fact that it is likely an inside job. I'm not positive they ever said it was an observer for sure did they? I just assumed the IP they were talking about was Potripper. I just got back and haven't caught up on things for an hour or 2.

Yes, they said it was an observer. (is it that far fetched that someone from the company would observe a tourney?) I guess after hearing people like you rdog express such certainty I was expecting more from the HHs. I will go back and look at them again and maybe pick out the ones I thought were pretty strange if he had hole cards.

[lunarphase 0]

so how do u get this superuser account? Now seriously how high cash games and tourneys would be effected I'm guessing 30/60 limit + 5/10 NL + hoping its $100 tourney+ and not lower

[RDog 0]

Yes, they said it was an observer. (is it that far fetched that someone from the company would observe a tourney?) I guess after hearing people like you rdog express such certainty I was expecting more from the HHs. I will go back and look at them again and maybe pick out the ones I thought were pretty strange if he had hole cards.

You can start with the fact that the guy only folds like 6 or 7 times preflop and I think all of them but one someone is holding a big pair. Or the fact that he 3 bets air multiple times when someone else has air but always folds when someone hits a hand. I mean the list goes on and on.

[Painter567 0]

Yes, they said it was an observer. (is it that far fetched that someone from the company would observe a tourney?) I guess after hearing people like you rdog express such certainty I was expecting more from the HHs. I will go back and look at them again and maybe pick out the ones I thought were pretty strange if he had hole cards.

I went through everyone and there is no way he could not see every card evertime. 100% impossible.

[vbnautilus 48]

You can start with the fact that the guy only folds like 6 or 7 times preflop and I think all of them but one someone is holding a big pair. Or the fact that he 3 bets air multiple times when someone else has air but always folds when someone hits a hand. I mean the list goes on and on.

But there are actually several times where he calls or raises preflop when people have big hands, and then folds to a pf raise. Seems pretty odd to me if he knows they have high pairs he can expect them to raise. found an example:Stage #896592641 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $20 - 2007-09-12 21:19:36.012 (ET)Table: 13 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealerSeat 8 - KOOLKEITH13 ($9940 in chips)Seat 9 - SCARFACE_79 ($10360 in chips)Seat 1 - BIGREDAK86 ($9091 in chips)Seat 2 - JOSIAHW ($7397 in chips)Seat 4 - POTR0AST ($9865 in chips)Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($24725 in chips)Seat 5 - POKERME420 ($10290 in chips)Seat 7 - DZ00NUTS ($8262 in chips)KOOLKEITH13 - Posts small blind $10SCARFACE_79 - Posts big blind $20*** POCKET CARDS ***Dealt to BIGREDAK86 [6d 9s]Dealt to JOSIAHW [3d Kc]Dealt to POTRIPPER [8d 4d]Dealt to POTR0AST [Ks 7c]Dealt to POKERME420 [Qs Qh]Dealt to DZ00NUTS [8h 7h]Dealt to KOOLKEITH13 [Kh As]Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [Jh Jc]BIGREDAK86 - FoldsJOSIAHW - FoldsPOTRIPPER - Raises $60 to $60POTR0AST - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $60DZ00NUTS - Calls $60KOOLKEITH13 - Raises $300 to $SCARFACE_79 - Calls $290POTRIPPER - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $250DZ00NUTS - Calls $250*** FLOP *** [4c 3s 2c]KOOLKEITH13 - Bets $750SCARFACE_79 - FoldsPOKERME420 - Calls $750DZ00NUTS - Folds*** TURN *** [4c 3s 2c] [10c]KOOLKEITH13 - ChecksPOKERME420 - Bets $320KOOLKEITH13 - Calls $320*** RIVER *** [4c 3s 2c 10c] [7s]KOOLKEITH13 - ChecksPOKERME420 - ChecksPOKERME420 Collects $3440 from main potI don't get it, why raise pf with 84 when you are against QQ, JJ, and AK.. unless you want to build a pot and hope for diamonds, but then why fold?

[the_moil 0]

I don't get it, why raise pf with 84 when you are against QQ, JJ, and AK.. unless you want to build a pot and hope for diamonds, but then why fold?

He wants them to slowplay their big pairs for a cheap price