zimmer4141 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yeah, the only part I didn't get about DD's cliffs was - if #363 and the user of POTRIPPER are the same person, why did it take #363 so long to get to table 13? Still plausibe, maybe even likely (had to wait for a 2nd computer to boot up, for example perhaps) but it did stick out a little.I guess it looks less suspicious if they appear at the table at slightly different times. Link to post Share on other sites
Ouch-8s 4 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I think more damning from this is that Potripper actually folded until user 363 got there and then started playing every hand.yes, absolutelyzimmer's got a possible explanation too. plenty of others could be too. it was only the one thing about DDs post that didn't make perfect, immediate sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites
booyaga 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 so bob was the superaccount on fcp?!?!!!!i keed i keed Link to post Share on other sites
TosasFinest 0 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I don't have a ton of money on AP, but that's not really the case. I've been talking to a friend of mine, who regularly has $40k in his AP account, and he is not at all worried about it. He's read the same things as you, and everyone else. I trust someone like him, over random people I've never heard of making claims that so and so is involved, zomg this is the end of the internet, and so on. I don't have 40k on AP, but the amount I have is enough to make me have to find something else to do with my life if it were to magically disappear. It's the equivalent of 40k, to me.Keeping 40k on AP after this shit is pretty retarded. Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Keeping 40k on AP after this shit is pretty retarded. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I have a question about this Bob. How is it possible that tournament histories with hole cards for ALL players are so easily accessible to what it appears to be regular AP reps? I think I have seen at least 3 people post that they received hole cards for everyone for different tourneys. My guess is that isn't more people because it sounds like AP hand histories are such nonsense that most people don't even bother with them once they get them. I mean, can you imagine having 5 or 10 full hand histories for someone like Imperium? Talk about basically putting your reps in a position to want to make some money outside their normal job duties. Seems to me letting ANYONE have access to this to be able to send it out is beyond crazy.I'm sure different sites handle information in different ways.When we were at On Game our front line support people had access to some things but not to others. I as the site operator had access to more information about our own players but didn't have access to information about players from other sites. The Network as a whole would have information that I didn't have access to.Sites have to be able to access this sort of information to investigate everything from a player saying that they should have won the pot when they were mistaken to investigating complicated cases of collusion.I have no doubt that some sites are more careful than others about protecting player's privacy. For example Poker Stars is downright nitty when it comes to account privacy based on our dealings with them when we transferred the FCP player account information to them. Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainQuint88 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 As someone who has never played on a site other than Absolute and has never had any problems this whole thing pretty much sucks. Oh well, it looks like West Virginia's poker rooms will be opening at the end of the week so I will have somewhere to play. p.s.- I have two shirts and a hat from Absolute poker is anyone is interested... interesting trades considered. Link to post Share on other sites
RDog 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 LOL, a very good strat discussion we had in General came up with one of the poker accounts that they suspect as belonging to the CEO (I think).From 2+2:You can get 2 of Phillip's myspace blog entries through http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...earch&meta= and clicking on the cached links. Nothing interesting in them, but I dunno, just throwing it out there if anyone wants to check it out.Seems like none of Phil's friends (that I could find) have Scott on their lists fwiw. Seems odd if they're brothers and co-owners, you'd think they'd be connected on myspace.Reply in 2+2:All I see is the HH from FCP that shows prouss1, I don't see any blog entries.Can you explain to me how to get there? Our link:http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=80911&st=0 Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Just finished reading all the 2+2 thread, and I want to clarify something concerning the evidence about Scott Tom, the (apparently former) CEO of AP. -- Scott's email address was not linked to the potripper account, nor to the superuser account. It was on ANOTHER account that briefly logged on to a table during this tournament (not potripper's table). -- This account logged on from the same IP as the superuser account; that is really the only evidence linking Scott to this. The IP address was described by the internet provider as a "residential cable modem" but not as scott's cable modem, that point was exaggerated. It's possible that AP is using a "residential" modem (perhaps to pay lower rates?). I just want to point out that it is fairly difficult to associate an IP with an individual. The RIAA is fortunately coming up against this issue in their attempts to sue little old ladies for sharing songs. It's quite possible that several computers at the AP office share an IP if they are behind a NAT router. Scott may have logged on to check how his buddy Sief was doing (who was at the table he did observe) while the nefarious intern three doors down was "potripping". And before RDog bites my head off for expressing anything skeptical, I'm not saying there was no cheating, and I'm not saying it wasn't Mr. Two Firstnames, I just think it's important to be pretty confident before you drag someone's reputation through the mud. Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Anyone able to find a pic of this guy? Doesn't seem to be any out there in google images. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Anyone able to find a pic of this guy? Doesn't seem to be any out there in google images.This was in the 2+2 thread, I'm pretty sure someone confirmed this is him. Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 This was in the 2+2 thread, I'm pretty sure someone confirmed this is him. ty. he looks a lil young to run a poker site, no? Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I havent read every post in this thread so this could have already been mentioned, but it is easy to clone and IP address and connect through a bouncer so it looks like you are connecting from a certain area/place/region etc while you are really using a different IP.The person(s) who did this were fairly smart up to a point until greed took over so to rule out the possibility they were literally tracing their steps to lead to 'the man' is not out of the question.I believe this is probably not the case, but just throwing out the possibility of an AP coup d'état. I'm sure at least one person saw someone behind the grassy knoll. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Just finished reading all the 2+2 thread, and I want to clarify something concerning the evidence I just want to point out that it is fairly difficult to associate an IP with an individual. The RIAA is fortunately coming up against this issue in their attempts to sue little old ladies for sharing songs. It's quite possible that several computers at the AP office share an IP if they are behind a NAT router.trust me, if the RIAA, or the FBI, want to find you and your house by your IP for downloading movies/music THEY CAN AND WILL. seriously, trust me on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 trust me, if the RIAA, or the FBI, want to find you and your house by your IP for downloading movies/music THEY CAN AND WILL. seriously, trust me on this one.Don't want to take this too far off topic, but the issue is attaching an IP to a person. You can fairly easily attach an IP to a physical location (even though most residential IPs are assigned dynamically, they keep records of who was assigned what when). But that doesn't tell you who was using the IP. With network address translation, many networked computers can appear to be from the same external address.. for example, my fiancee and I are both appearing to the external internet as the same IP even though we are using different computers. An additional issue as far as the RIAA is concerned is that with wireless routers, you have an even less certain situation. My neighbor could hop on my wireless if he cracks my WEP and download a bunch of songs. The RIAA has had a number of legal setbacks in trying to use IP addresses to prove who shared songs. Check out this article about a recent case they lost on this basis (IP address does not equal person):http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8955/Computer...s+by+IP+Address Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Don't want to take this too far off topic, but the issue is attaching an IP to a person. You can fairly easily attach an IP to a physical location (even though most residential IPs are assigned dynamically, they keep records of who was assigned what when). But that doesn't tell you who was using the IP. With network address translation, many networked computers can appear to be from the same external address.. for example, my fiancee and I are both appearing to the external internet as the same IP even though we are using different computers. An additional issue as far as the RIAA is concerned is that with wireless routers, you have an even less certain situation. My neighbor could hop on my wireless if he cracks my WEP and download a bunch of songs. The RIAA has had a number of legal setbacks in trying to use IP addresses to prove who shared songs. Check out this article about a recent case they lost on this basis (IP address does not equal person):http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8955/Computer...s+by+IP+Address ahhh granted. ip does not equal person. I was just saying it equals location. we are on the same page Link to post Share on other sites
mase_gotsem 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 New release from AP found it on 2+2Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I just received this email from Absolute, which contains (new?) information about a voluntary self-audit:Dear Corey,Absolute Poker Management wishes to inform the poker community of the following information in response to the most recent claims posted over the past 48 hours on the 2+2 and Pocket Fives forums wherein again it is alleged that some person or persons breached Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security. As was stated in Absolute Poker’s Official Response released on Friday October 12, 2007, Absolute Poker conducted an extensive investigation in response to the claims it was made aware of and received. The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards.Based on the most recent claims that Absolute Poker has been made aware of and at the request of some of our players and business partners, Absolute Poker has agreed to retain a widely acclaimed independent third party auditor, Gaming Associates, to conduct an independent audit of Absolute Poker’s security systems. Specifically, Absolute Poker has requested that Gaming Associates conduct a thorough and extensive review of Absolute Poker’s practices and security systems to determine whether it is possible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards thereby gaining an unfair advantage. (http://www.gamingassociates.com)Absolute Poker has agreed to fully cooperate with Gaming Associates and its investigative team and to provide the above with unfettered access to all systems, protocols and databases at Absolute Poker worldwide. Absolute Poker has also agreed to allow Gaming Associate’s final report to be made available to Pocket Fives and Bluff Media for their review.With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Poker’s systems, databases or information.Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates.Absolute Poker shall bear all expenses related to such investigation and is eager to learn about Gaming Associate’s findings. Absolute Poker highly values and intends to protect its players, shareholders, business partners, and affiliates.Absolute Poker Management Link to post Share on other sites
finztotheleft 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 on Friday October 12, 2007, Absolute Poker conducted an extensive investigation in response to the claims it was made aware of and received. The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards.Then how do they explain how they sent the hole cards for an entire tourney to a player ??????? Link to post Share on other sites
SpiderGuard 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Then how do they explain how they sent the hole cards for an entire tourney to a player ???????I'm not even trying to defend AP here, but maybe they're trying to claim that no one can view them in real time? Link to post Share on other sites
qyayqi 11 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Then how do they explain how they sent the hole cards for an entire tourney to a player ???????the database stores all hands for all tournies & cash games. it has to, so they can go back and investigate any allegations of wrong-doing. whoever sent the e-mail accidentally (?) selected all players at all tables to export to a flat file rather than just for the player who requested the HH. this is a separate security issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Ouch-8s 4 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 the database stores all hands for all tournies & cash games. it has to, so they can go back and investigate any allegations of wrong-doing. whoever sent the e-mail accidentally (?) selected all players at all tables to export to a flat file rather than just for the player who requested the HH. this is a separate security issue.that wasnt funny at all. Link to post Share on other sites
qyayqi 11 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 that wasnt funny at all.i have 2 or 3 funnies a month, the rest is pretty much like the above. i'd never make it in the big leagues of a superthread with the pressure to perform 24/7/365. Link to post Share on other sites
Marchione 0 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 i think the poker media should be shot for the way they handled this, I guess if they didnt have there lips wrapped around the advertising C0ck of AP/UB theywould be all over this story.also notice the legal threat AP put on there letter at the end. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Yeah, the threat there jumped out for me, too. Here's a company that has been caught with a gaping security hole allowing someone to steal unknown amount of money from players, and their first response is "it's impossible".When the controversy grows and more evidence comes to light, they still say "it's impossible, but we'll hire these people to prove it.""And oh, by the way, those of you finding the evidence, we're going to sue you if you don't shut up."Nice.I was days away from putting money on AP before this thing broke... I'm glad I procrastinated. They couldn't have handled this any worse. And what's bad now is that since it is apparently an insider, it is very likely that they have covered their tracks by now, and the new investigation will have the same result. Notice that AP didn't say they were providing this new investigator with all the evidence that people on the internet have found. Oversight? Or more stonewalling? Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I also love how they don't exactly come running to defend their former President Link to post Share on other sites
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