mrdannyg 274 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The contract itself doesn't seem like much of an overpayment. Seems like they might've got themselves a decent deal actually. I think money-wise, Reyes made a mistake signing before Fielder/Pujols, since there's more than a few teams in need of a shortstop, but won't put themselves out of the Fielder/Pujols running for Reyes. Then again, seems like signing first is almost always a mistake...someone's gotta do it. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The contract itself doesn't seem like much of an overpayment. Seems like they might've got themselves a decent deal actually. I think money-wise, Reyes made a mistake signing before Fielder/Pujols, since there's more than a few teams in need of a shortstop, but won't put themselves out of the Fielder/Pujols running for Reyes. Then again, seems like signing first is almost always a mistake...someone's gotta do it.I can't imagine Reyes would get more money anywhere else. Marlins paid a premium to make a point to the fans here. I'm pretty sure they will end up signing either Buerhle or CJ Wilson as well.Pujols still seems like a fantasy. It's nice to see the Marlins management at least understands they had to do something big. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I can't imagine Reyes would get more money anywhere else. Marlins paid a premium to make a point to the fans here. I'm pretty sure they will end up signing either Buerhle or CJ Wilson as well.Pujols still seems like a fantasy. It's nice to see the Marlins management at least understands they had to do something big.I wouldn't be surprised either. We'll see how the Marlins do - funny mix of players they have now. Seems like they're still several players short of a championship team, and don't really have the farm system to do much, but they definitely have the star players. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Rumours that the Jays are big in on the Fielder talks. Can't believe I'm getting suckered into being excited about that. Imagine this starting lineup though:C - Arencibia1B - Lind2B - ?? Kelly Johnson?SS - Escobar3B - LawrieRF - BautistaCF - RasmusLF - Snider/ThamesDH - FielderUtility - EncarnacionThat is nasty. With a crap-ton of pitching prospects too, we could easily pick up some starters, or just let them develop over the next couple years. Would like to see them bring up Hechevarria to play SS and move Escobar to 2B, though seems a waste to stick an above-average SS at 2B. Maybe we can trade Hech for a 2B, though seems like everyone is just looking at free agents these days. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised either. We'll see how the Marlins do - funny mix of players they have now. Seems like they're still several players short of a championship team, and don't really have the farm system to do much, but they definitely have the star players.I think the Marlins are expecting Mike Stanton to be a star. If they add a SP, I think they can be a playoff team. I guess I'll have to go check out a couple games now. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Maybe Hanley at third will equal less injuries for him? Maybe that's just a pipe dream though. At least the Marlins didn't overpay Reyes as much as the Sox and Nats overpaid Crawford and Werth though, respectively.Pretty sad/embarrassing that Reyes's final legacy with the Mets will be sitting out the last game of the season so he could win a batting title. That was the worst. And what made it even more poignantly awful was that it came 70 years to the day after Ted Williams played both games of a meaningless double-header, starting the day at .400 and then going 6 for motherfucking 8.I don't think anyone was gonna mistake Reyes for anything close to Ted Williams before that incident anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
akoff 0 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Albert gets 250m over 10 yrs...damn. that is a long time for an older player who is only going to slow down more as he ages. his chart is already on the downswing. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Albert gets 250m over 10 yrs...damn. that is a long time for an older player who is only going to slow down more as he ages. his chart is already on the downswing. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Albert gets 250m over 10 yrs...damn. that is a long time for an older player who is only going to slow down more as he ages. his chart is already on the downswing.I can't see DA's picture, but this is going to be a very expensive contract. Pujols is going to be at least 32 by the start of next year. There has been exactly one non-pitcher in history to age well enough to deserve that contract, even if you discount his 2011 season.Though it will be incredibly expensive based on just the stats, the Angels are at a very happy point on the marginal win curve, with CJ Wilson also added, and Mike Trout coming up soon. And they should stay at that happy point for a few years, based on their team, a quickly-aging Josh Hamilton and aging rosters in Boston and New York.Even with that, this deal could get Vernon Wells-ugly in a few years. How many 37-year olds produce more than 2-3 wins per year? How do you deal with having a deteriorating 2-3 win player, with 5 years and $25 mil left on his deal? Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It was a tweet from Darren Rovell:This. Is. America. RT @ds_33 "Angles" is trending in the US.All the talk with the Marlins going so hard after him (and not Prince Fielder) was because they were going to earn back his contract from international marketing ventures. If you think the contract pays for itself by selling to the sizable Latino population in southern California, you might be willing to just eat those last handful of years. Link to post Share on other sites
akoff 0 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I can't see DA's picture, but this is going to be a very expensive contract. Pujols is going to be at least 32 by the start of next year. There has been exactly one non-pitcher in history to age well enough to deserve that contract, even if you discount his 2011 season.Though it will be incredibly expensive based on just the stats, the Angels are at a very happy point on the marginal win curve, with CJ Wilson also added, and Mike Trout coming up soon. And they should stay at that happy point for a few years, based on their team, a quickly-aging Josh Hamilton and aging rosters in Boston and New York.Even with that, this deal could get Vernon Wells-ugly in a few years. How many 37-year olds produce more than 2-3 wins per year? How do you deal with having a deteriorating 2-3 win player, with 5 years and $25 mil left on his deal?Well the man is a stud right now and i think he will continue to be for a couple years...after that well it is only money right? you can always make more! Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 So I guess neither the Marlins nor the Angels will win the WS next year. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 So I guess neither the Marlins nor the Angels will win the WS next year.I'd like to discuss this point with you, but I'm not sure what you're implying. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I dunno, I can understand it. Pujols is only gonna get like a $250 million contract this offseason. How's he supposed to provide for his family on just that??One of the rare times I made a correct prediction, so I'm bragging about it.EDIT: I didn't expect him to go to the Angels this week because I didn't expect them to make such a huge offer, but it was pretty obvious that Pujols had no love for St. Louis. It's kind of a shame - I like it when a good or great player stays with one team his whole career (or close to his whole career at least), but based on this, it's pretty obvious he's all about dolla dolla bills y'all and probably couldn't care less about the legacy of the Cardinals and their fans and everything, despite helping to add 2 more world championships to that legacy. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 In other news, David Ortiz accepted arbitration so he's staying with the Sox for another year. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 One of the rare times I made a correct prediction, so I'm bragging about it.EDIT: I didn't expect him to go to the Angels this week because I didn't expect them to make such a huge offer, but it was pretty obvious that Pujols had no love for St. Louis. It's kind of a shame - I like it when a good or great player stays with one team his whole career (or close to his whole career at least), but based on this, it's pretty obvious he's all about dolla dolla bills y'all and probably couldn't care less about the legacy of the Cardinals and their fans and everything, despite helping to add 2 more world championships to that legacy.Well, reports are he turned down 10% more money from the Marlins, so it ain't all about the dollars. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Well, reports are he turned down 10% more money from the Marlins, so it ain't all about the dollars.I'm not sure those reports were true.There was USA Today report that the Marlins actually outbid the Angels for Pujols with a $275 million offer for the superstar. But sources said that figure was grossly exaggerated, that the Marlins’ bid to Pujols was just a shade more than $200 million. http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/09/2538...mi-marlins.htmlThat's as far as my research has gone though. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I'd like to discuss this point with you, but I'm not sure what you're implying.I'm implying that big free-agent signings rarely push a team over the top. Link to post Share on other sites
Dread Aidan 8 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I'm not sure those reports were true.LeBatard called the $275m reports absurd and he's friends with David Samson, so...I don't know, Samson is pretty greasy, he might lie to him.That figure was probably leaked by Pujols' people, so they could spin it that it wasn't just about the money. Link to post Share on other sites
GeneralGeeWhiz 0 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time, probably top ten, and the best hitter since Ted Williams. BUT paying 254 million over 10 years to a 31 year old player (who has peaked IMO) is foolish. Link to post Share on other sites
slink 1 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Pujols is one of the greatest players of all time, probably top ten, and the best hitter since Ted Williams. BUT paying 254 million over 10 years to a 31 year old player (who has peaked IMO) is foolish.I tend to agree with this. It worries me that the contract will hamstring other maneuvers into the market in the coming years. However, I thought the same thing with the Vernon Wells contract. Essentially, though, Arte is playing with house money with the TV deal for 3 billion over 20 years. I think Moreno just said "WTF, I am not getting outbid, don't see another way to get back into the playoffs, let's do this." Link to post Share on other sites
GeneralGeeWhiz 0 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I tend to agree with this. It worries me that the contract will hamstring other maneuvers into the market in the coming years. However, I thought the same thing with the Vernon Wells contract. Essentially, though, Arte is playing with house money with the TV deal for 3 billion over 20 years. I think Moreno just said "WTF, I am not getting outbid, don't see another way to get back into the playoffs, let's do this."yeah man i couldn't of said it better. trust me i would LOVE to have Pujols in the Giants lineup, just not for 10 long and very expensive years. Link to post Share on other sites
BillyPilgrim 1 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 if you have the money, might as well overpay one of the greatest right handed hitters ever. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ryan Braun tested positive for PEDs.Matt Kemp for MVP!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
speedz99 145 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 BUT paying 254 million over 10 years to a 31 year old player (who has peaked IMO) is foolish.I agree, with the one caveat being that his decline might look worse than it actually is...there's a chance he had a slow start to the last season and just never got to recover because of injury. But yeah, even if he's not in a big decline yet, he will be soon. Unless someone invents a very impressive steroid that's undetectable by modern standards...if you have the money, might as well overpay one of the greatest right handed hitters ever.Meh, weak excuse. Money is limited no matter what team you are, and overpaying by that much just limits how much you can spend on other big ticket players.Ryan Braun tested positive for PEDs.This just doesn't make much sense to me. He doesn't look like a steroid freak, and his numbers don't support it either. We'll see, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
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