Caesar's Palace- Player Went All In And Ran Away With $ After I Called

[kennyg1966 0]

the technicality he might get off with is that the hand didn't play out !so it was not guaranteed that you would have WON!send a letter to Ceasar's higher managment and hope for the best!and never go back good luckHire this guy !!

[psujohn 0]

Actually the guy mucked his hand so it did play out. The hand is over when there's only one player left.Honestly I don't think the casino did anything wrong. This is little different from him pushing you the money and then robbing you in the parking lot. The casino can't be responsible for that. Assuming that the dealer and floor wrote statements on your behalf and a couple other players did as well I don't think there's any way that JR will get off. He'll likely face thousands of dollars in court/lawyer costs, pay restitution and be banned from every casino for life. Aside from being beaten and dropped off in the desert it's pretty close to what he deserves.For those who say that the issue is cash playing, I don't see how that makes any difference. He could easily pocket the chips and walk out and have someone else cash them in later.

[CzechRazor 0]

BBFIDTS.Too bad casinos got all pussified. In the old days you'd go into the back room, put his head in a vice, and get your money.Ok maybe not, but it sounded good in my head.Sucks, but at least you have a good story to tell!

[Royal27 0]

I read it all. Seems shitty what happened to you, but you're not actually out the $1255. You're owed $1255 yes, but it wasn't money you had in the first place so you're not out the money. I think Caesar's probably ought to make good, but I can see why it would set a bad precedent for them to pay other people's wagers. They should definitely ban that guy from their poker room and their casino for life and maybe even from every other casino owned by that company.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. He is out the money and he did have it, even if he never took physical possesion of it (assuming here that the hand was played out and held up). He risked his money, called the bet, and the other guy welshed on it. The money is owed for "work done."By your logic if you work for a month at a job and the company that you work for then chooses not to send you your check you aren't "out the money" as you "never had it." Sounds silly now, doesn't it?

Actually the guy mucked his hand so it did play out. The hand is over when there's only one player left.Good point.

[silkyjonson 1]

You should have convinced them to let you talk to them with security present. Tell the guy that they wanted to charge him, but that you would not co-operate if he honored the bet. If he does honor the bet than let the casino do what they want with him and happily spend the money on hookers and steak dinners

[WowThats 0]

A very unfortunate story and lesson for each of us regardless of which side you may end up on. My personal opinion: Cesar's acted in accordance to their rules and within the spirit of the law. The NG Officer was able to charge the individual with felony this means you're not the first person to be a victim of this type of crime nor will you be the last.Advice: Stop whining like wench, wait for the outcome of the trial if the person is convicted you still win, if you get a check in the mail you win twice. When you get your summons make sure you show up for court.

You should have convinced them to let you talk to them with security present. Tell the guy that they wanted to charge him, but that you would not co-operate if he honored the bet. If he does honor the bet than let the casino do what they want with him and happily spend the money on hookers and steak dinners

You have been watching to many episodes of CSI...

[grocery_mony 8]

wow i hope that guy gets prison time and is used as currency between prison gangs.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. He is out the money and he did have it, even if he never took physical possesion of it (assuming here that the hand was played out and held up). He risked his money, called the bet, and the other guy welshed on it. The money is owed for "work done."Thanks pal. If you'd read the thread you'd know that others have already weighed in on this and I've retracted my earlier statements. Like I said before, the point I was trying to make made sense in my head, but I couldn't articulate it. One thing I'd like to say though...the paycheck analogy makes some sense and it puts me in my place, but please don't try to equate a hand of poker with working a job, especially working a week or a month at a job. The two are very different. Even if you're playing poker for a living and it's a grind at times, it's still a game, and a more fun way to make money than any job I can think of. Plus, it's gambling. Bottom line, it's just not the same.

[Nikki_N 17]

I know that Caesars considers the "all-in" valid, but when he said, "I put him all-in," did he push any chips? As for playing out of turn, I totally understand doing that, as I have done it myself in a big hand/money situation, but that's probably what he's using as his argument. I know this was settled by the casino, but it may come up again in court if this goes that far.The whole thing definitely sucks. Sorry you got hosed.

[NoSup4U 0]

If this is true, I might not ever play at Caesar's again. Plus, their food sucks in the poker room :)IMO, these types of things are why we all pay disgusting rake to play at casinos. They are supposed to be protecting us and making the game fair to all. If I wanted a guy to be able to rob me, not pay up on his bets, etc, I could do that rake free at a home game.In my mind, we pay the casino to protect us from this very thing. Mark

[Nikki_N 17]

If this is true, I might not ever play at Caesar's again. Plus, their food sucks in the poker room :)IMO, these types of things are why we all pay disgusting rake to play at casinos. They are supposed to be protecting us and making the game fair to all. If I wanted a guy to be able to rob me, not pay up on his bets, etc, I could do that rake free at a home game.In my mind, we pay the casino to protect us from this very thing. Mark

Yeah, that's how it should be, but unfortunately all we are doing is paying for the privelege of playing legally in their fancy room. Caesars Indiana has a pretty nice room, too. They time charge the NL tables and rake the limit tables. All NL tables are tables without automatic shufflers. Even if there is an open table with an automatic shuffler when they start a NL game, they will put it at a table without one. If you get a slow dealer, oh well. They hose you as much as possible while still making it just cool enough there to keep you from leaving. They also charge full price for drinks because by law they have to charge something. They don't have to charge retail, but they do, because they can.The casino refusing to help pay the bet is just another way that they show us that they can be unaccomodating and give crappy service while charging us for it, yet we will still come back and say, "Thank you sir! May I have another?"It's not just Caesars, either. Caesars Las Vegas happens to be one of the poker rooms I like best in Vegas.

[Startled 0]

Wow. Well, first of all, tough beat. Second, it was a great idea to write everything down so that your memory will stay fresh. I sincerely hope that you've documented the details here with frank and brutal honesty. If you've shaded any detail to make yourself appear more sympathetic or to reorder the actions or enhance the contrast of events, prepare to explain that to the defence's lawyers.Finally, I'm assuming that JR's stack was some bills and mostly chips. Did he really grab up all his chips and start stuffing them in his pockets? That's hilarious (well, not to you, obviously)! I don't think that the casino actually owes you anything, but they did apprrehend a person who committed a crime and charges were laid.I've never seen anyone have the nerve to bail out in a situation like that. I watched a payoff once when a player jokingly said "all-in" as he was mucking. SB immediately said "I call" and had the joker's chips pushed over. Much shouting and name-calling ensued, but the bet was honored.

[theresa113 0]

Wow. What a story. Well, you are definately owed the money, which you will get once it goes to court. It sucks that you have to wait but it sounds like with all of the testomonials, the evidence and the verdict will fall in your favor. I completely understand your frustration with Ceasars but they are not at fault. It sounds as if they did everything they could do without breaking the guys legs. This is poker and you play against the players, not the house. The casinos do not really make much money from poker players. The blame should not go to them.

[Royal27 0]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. He is out the money and he did have it, even if he never took physical possesion of it (assuming here that the hand was played out and held up). He risked his money, called the bet, and the other guy welshed on it. The money is owed for "work done."Thanks pal. If you'd read the thread you'd know that others have already weighed in on this and I've retracted my earlier statements. Like I said before, the point I was trying to make made sense in my head, but I couldn't articulate it. One thing I'd like to say though...the paycheck analogy makes some sense and it puts me in my place, but please don't try to equate a hand of poker with working a job, especially working a week or a month at a job. The two are very different. Even if you're playing poker for a living and it's a grind at times, it's still a game, and a more fun way to make money than any job I can think of. Plus, it's gambling. Bottom line, it's just not the same.

You're welcome and I apoligize for not reading the entire thread to ensure that no one else had replied to you, or had the same point of view that I did before responding.I am curious though. If someone owes you $1000 how does the value of the money change based on how it was earned? Are you saying that if you earn the money in a fun way (such as poker) that money has less value than if you earn it in a non-fun way (such as manual labor)? Call me crazy, but money I make playing poker has the same value to me as money I earn in my real job. Poker is a VERY fun hobby, true, but the money earned spends exactly the same.Mike Caro would have ablast with this one!

[chgocubs99 0]

You're welcome and I apoligize for not reading the entire thread to ensure that no one else had replied to you, or had the same point of view that I did before responding.I am curious though. If someone owes you $1000 how does the value of the money change based on how it was earned? Are you saying that if you earn the money in a fun way (such as poker) that money has less value than if you earn it in a non-fun way (such as manual labor)? Call me crazy, but money I make playing poker has the same value to me as money I earn in my real job. Poker is a VERY fun hobby, true, but the money earned spends exactly the same.Mike Caro would have ablast with this one!

Of course it spends the same. But if you are working a manual labor job you have an expection, to be paid every week, two weeks, or whatever. When you are playing poker recreationally, you know that there will be times where you win and times where you lose. I just realized I have no idea where I'm going with this. I will now shut up.

[Royal27 0]

I just realized I have no idea where I'm going with this. I will now shut up.

LMAO!!!!!You just made me spit coffee all over the place. You hit me just right!

[mcpickl 0]

A very unfortunate story and lesson for each of us regardless of which side you may end up on. My personal opinion: Cesar's acted in accordance to their rules and within the spirit of the law. The NG Officer was able to charge the individual with felony this means you're not the first person to be a victim of this type of crime nor will you be the last.Advice: Stop whining like wench, wait for the outcome of the trial if the person is convicted you still win, if you get a check in the mail you win twice. When you get your summons make sure you show up for court.You have been watching to many episodes of CSI...

Are you for friggin' real? You wouldn't be upset if you won a $1200 bet and then were told, well you're not getting the money today, maybe you'll get it some months from now?You're ridiculous.

[showstopper24 0]

thats rediculious. you can go all in every hand with nothing to collect the blinds and if someone calls you can just walk away? that shouldn't be allowed

[WowThats 0]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. He is out the money and he did have it, even if he never took physical possession of it (assuming here that the hand was played out and held up). He risked his money, called the bet, and the other guy welshed on it. The money is owed for "work done."

Most the responses are based on emotion rather based on the spirit of the law and are looked at through tunnel vision. You may think the victim is out money when in fact the victim is out nothing, what everyone does not understanding, Nevada has laws that pertain to this type of crime. Look at from this point of respective: you're on jury.1. What are the casino poker rules? 2. Are the rules laws or just rules?3. Does every casino apply the same rules or are their different interpretations?4. Since one player acted out of turn, other players followed and have acted out of turn, can they withdraw their bet and or change their decision - same would apply to a player who said fold out of turn and now wants to call.5. Is the casino responsible for the debt? How does Nevada Gaming law(s) read?

[KoRnholio 2]

Ouch, major bad beat. Although it sounds like you will (eventually) get paid what you're owed.

I know that Caesars considers the "all-in" valid, but when he said, "I put him all-in," did he push any chips?

This has always bugged me.. Players declaring they are all in without moving any chips forward into the pot. IMO any bet should be accompanied by pushing chips past the bet line (real or imaginary) so that their intent is clear. I can think of numerous times where people have uttered a nearly inaudible "I'm all in", making things complicated when people act behind him thinking he had checked instead.

Finally, I'm assuming that JR's stack was some bills and mostly chips. Did he really grab up all his chips and start stuffing them in his pockets? That's hilarious (well, not to you, obviously)!

Sounds like it was mostly cash.. Another reason to not have cash play on the table, people could pull crap like this

[WowThats 0]

Are you for friggin' real? You wouldn't be upset if you won a $1200 bet and then were told, well you're not getting the money today, maybe you'll get it some months from now?You're ridiculous.

Lack of intelligence is the real crime in this response... re-read my post, try real hard to understand what it means. Then respond!

[No_Neck 0]

I bet there is no way that guy realizes this **** he just got himself into, Nevada is not a fun place to do time... trust me.

[cubsfan04 0]

this is how i built my initial bankroll. Works like a charm.kidding by the way. tough beat but you'll get your money back eventually. you should try to get some extra money for mental distress.... Couldnt pay my rent because of this Blah Blah Blah.. you get the idea.

[ncperrotta069 0]

damn what a badbeat hope he goes to jail and you get your money back that J.R. guy pulled a real d!ck move

[sloshr 0]

I agree that the casino should have to make good, since the rake is taken to make sure that the game is honest, which this was not. However, i have seen casinos not make good on bets before, so there is probably nothing you can do about this part. The California cardrooms allow you to declare money "behind", assuming you are about to pull it from your pocket. I have seen people do this to play off the blinds and button, then run to the ATM or the cashier if they have a player bank. I feel that if the casino employee deals the player in and accepts his wagers, they are guaranteeing the money. This is not the case. I saw a player to to a safe deposit box, realize they forgot the key, and gone to management with ID to get it opened. This process took at least an hour, while a player was owed $140 or so. This player was not happy, and while the casino sent security to look for the other player and find out what was going on, they would not accept responsibility for the money. Eventually, the player came back with the money and paid off immediately, but the situation was not good.You may want to get a lawyer for this whole thing. It sounds like the police are treating this as a robbery, as if you were paid and the player later stole it from you. If this is the case, wouldn't Caesars have some responsibility for a crime being committed on their property? Just like if you got injured on their property; it might not have been their fault, but they would have to pay. Just my opinion, I may be way off base here.