investors nervous about empire

[Suited_Up 2]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

There's nothing wrong with the RNG. Nothing.If there was simply a problem with the RNG and hands weren't rigged by PS, it would be mind-numbingly easy to detect.If you're so sure that something is wrong, instead of spending all your time on forums talking about it, go onto pokerstars and start logging hands. When you find these statistical anamolies you can report them back to the poker community. Otherwise, stop. Seriously.

I have played there... so have lots of other people.Somehow a lot of us came to similar conclusions. It seems like a strange coincidence.We have also played lots of hands at other sites, and not seen the same happenings. Again, strange.I have said before... I am not saying it's a detectable problem, and granted, I don't have any idea how the tests work for that sort of thing. But all the sites have different tendencies as to how cards show up. If you play at a lot of different sites, you will notice the subtleties. The way the cards come out at stars is not something I am willing to risk my money on. It's that simple.Not only that, I really don't like the software. I think it's slow and ugly. It's personal preference. But everyone I know who has played at stars, and then also played at Full Tilt... will probably never leave FT unless something better comes along.

[Don Giovanni 0]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

pokerstars has a ton of players despite not having rakeback or many bonuses so obviously they are doing something right.

[murmar 0]

However, Charles Wilson, analyst at Bridgewell Securities, said: "The move towards proprietary systems will cut off liquidity for skins, which has been one of the key drivers of traffic."

Cut off liquidy forskins. I'm juvinille.

[zimmer4141 0]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

There's nothing wrong with the RNG. Nothing.If there was simply a problem with the RNG and hands weren't rigged by PS, it would be mind-numbingly easy to detect.If you're so sure that something is wrong, instead of spending all your time on forums talking about it, go onto pokerstars and start logging hands. When you find these statistical anamolies you can report them back to the poker community. Otherwise, stop. Seriously.

I have played there... so have lots of other people.Somehow a lot of us came to similar conclusions. It seems like a strange coincidence.We have also played lots of hands at other sites, and not seen the same happenings. Again, strange.I have said before... I am not saying it's a detectable problem, and granted, I don't have any idea how the tests work for that sort of thing. But all the sites have different tendencies as to how cards show up. If you play at a lot of different sites, you will notice the subtleties. The way the cards come out at stars is not something I am willing to risk my money on. It's that simple.Not only that, I really don't like the software. I think it's slow and ugly. It's personal preference. But everyone I know who has played at stars, and then also played at Full Tilt... will probably never leave FT unless something better comes along.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Suited_Up 2]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

pokerstars has a ton of players despite not having rakeback or many bonuses so obviously they are doing something right.

Allowing bad players to continually suck out?That might do it.

[Sushiman 0]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

pokerstars has a ton of players despite not having rakeback or many bonuses so obviously they are doing something right.

They have Raymer and Moneymaker making themselves look like clowns on TV every night. Investors need to dump Empire.....they have maybe 6k individual players and most of them are heading for the hills after what Party pulled. Buying Noble means almost nothing.

[Red 0]

What did Party pull?

[Smasharoo 0]

What did Party pull?Long story.Much panic.Most people are crazily overreacting.

[Vman96 0]

What did Party pull?

The crux of it is that party supposedly is no longer allowing its "skins" (Empire, etc.) to share the Party Poker player base.

[Jadaki 0]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

There really isn't anything wrong with pokerstars. The software is really stable and fast, and custom avatars > premade ones you have to choose from. I like having a way to visually seperate opponents. I like Full Tilt software, just find the little animated avatars annoying as hell. I like them both better than party, the software is stable but the site is ugly and I don't like the lobby interface. Bodog software is still a bit buggy, but I like the groundwork. If they can tweak the system a bit to clean up some of the small bugs it will be great. I have not tried UB yet but plan too sometime.I think I agree about Full Tilt being tops in a few years, I like the way they run things overall, but they could use some work in tournament structures and with the avatars.

[Wingmaster05 0]

i think full is a possible powerhouse in the future...but they need the fish to start coming in droves if they want to succeed (and not use a suspect RNG, so to speak). What do they offer to the poor, average joe? The bonus is impossible to clear for them, and im sure they will bust out of the nicely structured tournaments in due time.

[Batch 0]

McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy'sChick-fil-A is taking all comers, baby.

nothing better than the chick fil a peach bowl.

[Spademan 94]

pokerstars is not gonna fade out anytime soon, software overhaul or not.

If that's the truth... then it's sad.

There's nothing wrong with the RNG. Nothing.If there was simply a problem with the RNG and hands weren't rigged by PS, it would be mind-numbingly easy to detect.If you're so sure that something is wrong, instead of spending all your time on forums talking about it, go onto pokerstars and start logging hands. When you find these statistical anamolies you can report them back to the poker community. Otherwise, stop. Seriously.

I have played there... so have lots of other people.Somehow a lot of us came to similar conclusions. It seems like a strange coincidence.We have also played lots of hands at other sites, and not seen the same happenings. Again, strange.I have said before... I am not saying it's a detectable problem, and granted, I don't have any idea how the tests work for that sort of thing. But all the sites have different tendencies as to how cards show up. If you play at a lot of different sites, you will notice the subtleties. The way the cards come out at stars is not something I am willing to risk my money on. It's that simple.Not only that, I really don't like the software. I think it's slow and ugly. It's personal preference. But everyone I know who has played at stars, and then also played at Full Tilt... will probably never leave FT unless something better comes along.

Ok, dude made a crushing point, and, I'm tired of your ignorant PS RNG shiz myself, but, dude makes a crushing point and you come back with " I am not saying it's a detectable problem, and granted, I don't have any idea how the tests work for that sort of thing. But all the sites have different tendencies as to how cards show up." Guess what, if they have "different tendencies", then it can be quantified, and IS DETECTABLE. So, unless you are saying that your innate common sense on the fly understanding of probabilities is somehow superior to actual mathematical test and verification, you aren't making any fucking sense.Get some pokertracker databases together, and show how 82% hands are winning 70% of the time over tons of hands or stfu.Seriously.

[Dubey 1,035]

I'm not going to quote that huge thing again, but very well said spademan.

[Boothy 0]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EOL.L&...=l&c=PRTY.lWell it's not heading in the right direction. Right now the industry just seems extremely messy. No stability.

There will continue to be nervousness in the online poker market until the US Gov decide what they are gonna do. At the moment they are officially illegal in the states so how can anyone hope for a stable marketplace?My 2c

[Actuary 3]

I'm not going to quote that huge thing again, but very well said spademan.

[TS Clark 0]

Full Tilt will be the biggest in a few years.

I like FT and always have. The problem that they have is the same problem that all the sites other than PP and PS have. If you play any games other than HE, your game selection ability is going to suck. I play a ton of 7-stud and stud8, but it's hard to find reliable and juicy games at a variety of limits anywhere other than Party and Stars.Other than for tourneys, I'm not a big fan of Stars (play is way too tight for the most part) and I loathe Party's software. But until these other sites (even decent-sized ones like UB -- which is the best software going, IMO) have enough traffic to support lots of non-HE action, some of us won't want to come along. I hope a site like UB or FT manages to do just that, though.

[hank213 1,823]

My guess is that ultimately you'll have 3 or 4 major poker sites left to duke it out.  It's like that in many areas of commerce.Discount Retailer:  WalMart, Target, KMart...Fast Food Burgers:  McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's...American Autos:  Ford, Chrysler, Chevrolet...In many cases it's only two competing:  Coke and Pepsi;  Amazon and Barnes and Noble.I know what you are thinking... what about In-n-Out Burger, etc... most of the time these are regional or specialty chains.I'm talking national here.It's happening in the U.S. airline industry right now as well.  We very well may end up with 3 or 4 major airlines that service all the U.S., plus a number of regional airlines.So bottom line... in the end, my guess is only Party Poker, Full Tilt, Paradise and Ultimate Bet will survive.   I say this only because they seem to have established themselves the best, and have the most agressive marketing campaigns.

What's this?!? A rational, cogent, substantiated position?!? Did you mistakenly wander into the wrong forum? You were the person that blew the bell curve for everyone else in microeconomics class right?Seriously though, I think the day of having only 4 majors to choose from are quite some time off. Naturally, the smaller sites will go broke or be bought out by the larger firms at some point, such is the natural flow of all industries. However, with the huge expansion of poker, which IMO hasn't peaked quite yet, there are plenty of consumers to fuel numerous small sites. It will be when the industry as a whole has saturated the market and incredible growth across the board ceases that the consumers will become more savvy and the smaller sites will begin to suffer. But all in all...well said.

[Canada 0]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EOL.L&...=l&c=PRTY.lWell it's not heading in the right direction. Right now the industry just seems extremely messy. No stability.

Well party seems have made an almost complete recovery (if you only consider share prices) within 4 days.last time I checked they had 50k players on site. It would seem that they have made a very smart business move.Lets face it, there are a large % of players out there who wouldn't know one pro from another, don't know what a 'fish' or what rakeback is, and definately don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about RNG's.We, the enthusiasts for want of a better term :wink: , are definately a minority.Party have been succesful so far because they realise the general public want a site that is 'fun', where you can always get a game and has a highly public profile so that it can be somewhat trusted with money.It's why Party has always been dressed up in a clown suit and always had the biggest numbers. If they keep those numbers - which it looks like they will - the 'skin-sharks' will come back to feed and life will continue as it always has (except now that rake back will an even dirtier word :wink: )Here's one for the conspiracy theriosts though...The same week that Party really neeeds its market share to remain solid is the same week that their Bad Beat jackpot skyrockets. It was $440k this morning (London time).Coincidence? Let me get my tinfoil hat out to consider...