Dn Playing 100/200

[BigLebowski 0]

v1.11Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $100/$200 - 6 playersCO Mr Zahmat: $46,715.00 Button Sleyde: $34,635.00 SB Bebop86: $21,395.00 BB KidPoker: $40,000.00 UTG ZeeJustin: $21,600.00 UTG+1 molswi47: $104,442.00 Preflop: ($300.00) (6 players)2 folds, Mr Zahmat raises to $600, Sleyde calls $600, Bebop86 raises to $2600, KidPoker raises to $5800, 2 folds, Bebop86 calls $3200Flop: ($12,800.00) : : : (2 players)Bebop86 checks, KidPoker bets $7200, Bebop86 raises to $15595 and is all-in, KidPoker calls $8395Turn: ($43,990.00) : (2 players)River: ($43,990.00) : (2 players)Bebop86 showed : :, and won ($43985) with a pair of JacksKidPoker showed : :, and lost with high card AceBebop86 won $43985(Rake: $5)

No.

[FCP Bob 1,320]

v1.11Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em $100/$200 - 6 playersCO Mr Zahmat: $46,715.00 Button Sleyde: $34,635.00 SB Bebop86: $21,395.00 BB KidPoker: $40,000.00 UTG ZeeJustin: $21,600.00 UTG+1 molswi47: $104,442.00 Preflop: ($300.00) (6 players)2 folds, Mr Zahmat raises to $600, Sleyde calls $600, Bebop86 raises to $2600, KidPoker raises to $5800, 2 folds, Bebop86 calls $3200Flop: ($12,800.00) : : : (2 players)Bebop86 checks, KidPoker bets $7200, Bebop86 raises to $15595 and is all-in, KidPoker calls $8395Turn: ($43,990.00) : (2 players)River: ($43,990.00) : (2 players)Bebop86 showed : :, and won ($43985) with a pair of JacksKidPoker showed : :, and lost with high card AceBebop86 won $43985(Rake: $5)

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

[dna4ever 2]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

obviously factoring in the implied odds if they hit and daniel has Ace high they are getting paid off

[silkyjonson 1]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

The AJ call seems pretty terrible.

[Tehtoe 3]

Your evidence is 1 hand, BigLebowski?

[Naismith 0]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

I think most people would say that Daniel played it fine and Bebop's preflop call is horrible.

[FCP Bob 1,320]

In the chat after the hand philbort said he had KK and Daniel said he had 10 10PokerStars Game #42431958854: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/04/09 18:52:26 ETTable 'Juno III' 6-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: FiSHeYe1984 ($51008 in chips) Seat 2: molswi47 ($49062 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($53075 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($61329 in chips) Seat 5: philbort ($21195 in chips) Seat 6: Mr Zahmat ($73300 in chips) FiSHeYe1984: posts small blind $100molswi47: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***ZeeJustin: folds KidPoker: raises $400 to $600philbort: raises $1200 to $1800Mr Zahmat: folds FiSHeYe1984 said, "if you feel like doing the eurotripthing"molswi47 said, "oh wow didnt know it wasthat small"FiSHeYe1984 said, "lemme know, flights to my place are like 60min from london"FiSHeYe1984: folds molswi47: folds molswi47 said, "still a fun lineup"molswi47 said, "have fun"KidPoker: raises $3000 to $4800philbort: calls $3000*** FLOP *** [5c As 6h]ZeeJustin said, "ty, but im coming home on the 14th"KidPoker: checks ZeeJustin said, "want to be back for the bellagio 25k"ZeeJustin said, "and have to do taxes x.x"philbort: checks *** TURN *** [5c As 6h] [Ah]KidPoker: checks molswi47 said, "yuck"molswi47 said, "taxes"molswi47 said, "thats not a fun time"FiSHeYe1984 said, "ah I remember"philbort: bets $4600molswi47 said, "cant even imagine how thats done"KidPoker: raises $51929 to $56529 and is all-inFiSHeYe1984 said, "there was a reason why so many americans get staked"ZeeJustin said, "yeah, i wish i was wesley snipes and didn't have to pay taxes"FiSHeYe1984 said, "and then again"FiSHeYe1984 said, "going to jail sucks, too"FiSHeYe1984 said, ":club:"philbort: folds Uncalled bet ($51929) returned to KidPokerKidPoker collected $19095 from potKidPoker: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $19100 | Rake $5 Board [5c As 6h Ah]Seat 1: FiSHeYe1984 (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: molswi47 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: KidPoker collected ($19095)Seat 5: philbort folded on the TurnSeat 6: Mr Zahmat (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[donk4life 34]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

I'm even more curious as to why Raptor hit and ran soon after.

[BigLebowski 0]

Your evidence is 1 hand, BigLebowski?

I was being facetious, but since you pointed it out....yeah, I guess it was as convincing as your one word answer.

[Tehtoe 3]

I was being facetious, but since you pointed it out....yeah, I guess it was as convincing as your one word answer.

Not sure how I'm going to mount evidence against the fact, but I'd imagine it's variance evening out (and probably also the popular viewpoint!)

[delved 0]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

obviously factoring in the implied odds if they hit and daniel has Ace high they are getting paid off

The AJ call seems pretty terrible.

His play is fairly beyond bad. DN 4bet the hand if I'm correct, which obviously (as most likely anyone his style, and more than one player in the hand) means his range is really tight. AJ is in no way profitable where he is, the best he drew to was a 3outer which he nailed. Even then I don't assume how you're ahead in the hand, but if you call pre you have to be willing to get it in if you hit then. It's still a terrible play.

Your evidence is 1 hand, BigLebowski?

Yeh, you haven't seen other hands where DN has played them excellently and others played terribly. I remember one hand he shoved on a Q844 board with JJ and got called by KK, and I don't think it was a good play. I truly think DN is moving in a great direction with his play and has shown he's learned more over the past month. He's adapted to the online players well. Obviously there is still more he can learn and leaks to plug, as is everyone. But for now he's doing great. For him, I'd be more focused in making it to Day 3

[looshle 6]

I truly think DN is moving in a great direction with his play and has shown he's learned more over the past month. He's adapted to the online players well. Obviously there is still more he can learn and leaks to plug, as is everyone. But for now he's doing great. For him, I'd be more focused in making it to Day 3

There's so many hands no ones gets to see because they don't go to showdown but there's a ton of showdown hands that are pretty bad on DN's part. He's stuck over 120k in the game and down the most he's ever been on Stars. Obviously the variance in that game is going to be huge because of the preflop aggression as well as the fact that there's such a small edge between alot of players. 120k is only 6 buyins (assuming 100bs) so it's really not THAT much in the game but he def has a long way to go and I think he's better off hiring a coach rather than jumping right into it. No matter how much he is or isn't improving, he's playing against some of the best players in the world and he needs someone who plays at that high of a level to work with him if he plans on just continuing to play these stakes or he is NOT going to win.

[Snamuh 0]

I'd be curious to see what some of the NL Grinders think of this hand. Especially Bebop calling Daniel's raise preflop out of position with AJ and only having $15K left ?I'm not a NL cash player but it seems to me to be questionable.

I'm generally not one to question Raptor but I hate his preflop play there.

[FCP Bob 1,320]

Daniel's Results Since He Started Playing In MarchMarch 5684 Hands +$204,734April 1-9 2039 Hands -($205,707)Combined March and April 7723 Hands -($973)

[thebottomline 0]

He's stuck over 120k in the game and down the most he's ever been on Stars.

Daniel's Results Since He Started Playing In MarchMarch 5684 Hands +$204,734April 1-9 2039 Hands -($205,707)Combined March and April 7723 Hands -($973)

Where did you get 120k from Looshle? Was it one of the highstakesdb type sites? And what was the date range?

I'm generally not one to question Raptor but I hate his preflop play there.

So Bebop = David Benefield?

[FCP Bob 1,320]

Where did you get 120k from Looshle? Was it one of the highstakesdb type sites? And what was the date range?

He probably got that from PTR. They miss hands and sometimes take 24 hours before updating things so the numbers can be quite different depending on when you look at them after a session has been played.Also Daniel played a few sessions of 100/200 last year with the last one in Nov I think before he started to play regularly in March and he was down overall before so if he's even since playing in March his overall number will be down at 100/200 when you include his play from before.When Daniel talks about his results in the game he's going to use March as the starting point.

So Bebop = David Benefield?

Yup

[Voldemort 0]

[FCP Bob 1,320]

ESPN Article on Daniel's 100/200 NL playing.http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/colum...tory?id=5113930

Negreanu swallows pride, earns respectBy Gary WiseSpecial to ESPN.comExcellence-propelled competitive success is a funny thing in a double-edged sword kind of way. Once that success is achieved, there's temptation to figure out what inspired it and cling to it as your game's natural tactical evolution renders those methods obsolete. You know they work; after all they've worked before. The problem, as years pass, is that you're essentially playing a different game than the one that proved those methods so functional. Daniel Negreanu got his start in poker in Toronto's 1980s pool halls and came to his success on the strength of his instincts. He's not exactly a poker player of the David Sklansky mode, playing by feel. His strongest weapons are an analytical mind combined with an uncanny ability to read opponents; we've all seen him call out his opponents' holdings before they're revealed, regardless of whether he's making the right play against the named hand.In that Negreanu has built a presumably multimillion-dollar bankroll and has parlayed his personable charm, talent and gift of gab into a career transcending the cards he plays, he's recently done a remarkable thing: With an almost unparalleled tournament record, a mixed game of which he says "There's no eight-game lineup in the world that I feel like an underdog in," and the busy schedule that comes with celebrity, he's going back to the drawing board in Texas Hold 'em. Negreanu's sterling reputation as a player took a hit with the launch of this season's "High Stakes Poker" episodes. With his confidence in that venue shot due in large part to psychological hurdles set by a bad run of cards over recent seasons, Negreanu played substandard poker and paid dearly for it. The experience of not only getting outplayed by the likes of the "big three" (Phil Ivey, Tom Dwan and Patrik Antonius), but also overthinking even simple plays, got the world buzzing. Inexperienced low-stakes players were so bold as to suggest that Negreanu couldn't beat a $100 buy-in cash game on PokerStars. It was a massive assault. In a March 31 blog entry published on FullContactPoker entitled "A New Challenge Awaits," Negreanu wrote the following: As most of you know, high stakes no limit hold 'em action has been relatively quiet now for quite some time. Well, with me playing regularly, the games are obviously full with a waiting list. I mean if you have a computer, then you probably have a TV, and if you play poker, and have a TV, you've probably watched a few episodes of High Stakes Poker. If you've watched a few episodes of High Stakes Poker, and you have money on PokerStars, then you jump on the waiting list. If you don't have money on PokerStars, then you deposit some money on PokerStars, and jump on the waiting list. It's that simple really. Then if you watch me play online in those games, you see all the fundamental mistakes, you see all the misplayed hands and all the weird lines, and then you feel great about your decision to jump in these games as your dreams have been answered. The donkey from that GSN show has fallen into your lap and is prepared to pad your bankroll. I don't blame you. Negreanu could have sat on his laurels, appreciating his millions, focusing on his brand. Instead, he made the decision to relearn the fundamentals starting at the top. He jumped into the $100/$200 blind cash games on PokerStars, the highest the site offers, and swam with the sharks. In the past month, he's played some 8,000 hands despite keeping his play to one or two tables. (He's not exactly an online pro just yet.) Some called it lunacy. "I had this discussion with people," said Negreanu from his hotel room while attending the NAPT's Mohegan Sun event. "They were like 'Why don't you do this at $5/$10, $10/$20 or $25/$50' and I was like 'The thing is this. It's not like I'm learning to play poker for the very first time. You know? There's adjustments that have to be made. It's not like I'm starting from scratch. If I was starting from scratch, I'd start at the bottom. I wanted to learn how the best players on the Internet play. Not to disrespect the $5/$10 guys because some of them are obviously really good, but there are mistakes being made at $5/$10 that just aren't made at $100/$200. The players who are willing to play $100/$200 are thinking on the highest levels and learning curve is a lot faster that way. If you look at a guy like Eli Elezra, Eli got really good really fast because he was playing with the best players in the world. It's not something I would recommend as the best strategy financially, but if you want to get better quickly, playing against Phil Ivey and all those other guys regularly would be the best way to do it in my opinion." In other words, Negreanu understands that he's fighting a losing short-term battle for long-term dividends. The regulars at the 'Stars $100/$200 are among the best players on the Internet, all brilliant poker minds with vastly more extensive experience in this particular game than Negreanu. "It's a tough lineup for anyone and there's a lot of variance for small win rates in that game," said Brian Townsend, who's played a few hundred hands with Negreanu in the last month. "It's not a good game. Daniel has the least experience of anyone in that game and there's usually a strong correlation between hands logged and success. Everyone there is a smart guy and they've all grinded twice as many hands. They've been grinding that game for the last two years and Daniel hasn't been doing that. He's capable of overcoming it, but it's a hurdle." The one player who has provided Negreanu the most counsel is Lex Veldhuis, a fellow HSP alum who comes from the 24-table school of online play. "We talked about why he wanted to do it and what his objectives were," recalled Veldhuis, a fellow member of Team PokerStars Pro. "It's really hard for someone who's been so successful to shake their fundamentals, but I told him to forget everything he knew and start over. The way people perceive him and the general strategy was outdated or fundamentally wrong, so I told him make a fresh start and do everything right. "I think he's adjusting great. What I'm really impressed by is how he researches players. For me personally, one of my leaks is I don't go into my opponents' strategies enough. He's kind of OCD about it. It's really impressive. I think he's improving rapidly." Through this process, Negreanu has started recognizing the fundamental flaws in his game and has begun the task of fixing them. "The truth is, playing tournament poker the last 10 years or however long it's been, my game has always been well-suited to play against players with flaws in their games, so my fundamental flaws didn't really matter," recognized Negreanu. "I could overcome them with my reading ability, my people reading skills and the fact that the system I'd developed was absolutely perfect for the flaws those players had. Those flaws didn't translate well to cash games. "Mostly, the flaws are fundamental flaws before the flop. I'm playing hands in bad positions, betting my hands … actually, I feel like on the turn and river I don't have many adjustments to make, because I play those streets pretty well. It was mostly pre-flop math stuff that I wasn't aware of based on stack size. Like, certain hands I would play just weren't playable in certain spots based on the numbers. Also, I was never afraid to play hands out of position in the past because most people sucked. Now, playing hands like K4-suited out of position against good players just isn't going to be profitable. It's the kind of thing I used to do." The key word there is "used." Negreanu's foray started with a hot run that had him feeling confident, but variance was in play and reality brought him back down to even. Over the month, he's running at just about even, down $983 at last report. That's a great price, however, for the improvement he's been seeing as a result of the time logged. Established online pros like Mike "Schneids" Schneider and Phil Galfond have made public statements about Negreanu's instincts and steep learning curve, with Galfond noting on the "twoplustwo" forums: "It's very cool when someone who doesn't need to make money playing cash games still wants to." It's a nice summary of the respect Negreanu's pursuit has garnered among the professional community. "One thing Daniel has going for him is that he's very realistic," said Justin Bonomo, who's been observing the experiment closely. "He doesn't take his tournament success to mean he can play cash with the best online grinders. He knows where he stands and knows he has to work on his game to take it to the level where he's one of the best. Despite what some people may think, he's very smart, very analytical and studies the game at a world-class level. When he started off, he was def really, really bad. He was playing too many hands and played with the idea he had to bluff every hand to make money. Since then, he's tightened up and stopped doing that. He's improving really quickly. He's certainly not losing very much in the long run if he keeps playing as well as he has been. I do think it's possible that he'll become a winning player in that lineup in the future." With the emergence of Negreanu as an online presence, the once-dormant high-stakes hold 'em games have become active again. Negreanu's perceived weakness caused players to move up in stakes and line up for hours in the hopes of getting their shots at the star. This has led to suggestions that Negreanu's choices were fueled by PokerStars' desire to close the gap with FullTiltPoker in the cash game wars. Negreanu laughs off the idea. "I've gotten zero pressure to play big games, and zero money to do so. I'm not being staked. This was just literally me figuring I needed more hours online. Once I started, I realized it was really good for the site." It looks as though PokerStars' windfall won't be ending anytime soon. With the understanding that a player can get a truly accurate read on how well he's faring in a particular game only with some 50,000 hands logged, Negreanu has pledged to reach that number by the end of 2010. He's hoping to get to 20,000 hands by the launch of the World Series of Poker, then continue after that series' completion. That means a lot more action on those cash game tables and a lot more attention for the site. No wonder those accusations flew. Of course, that also means a lot more poker for Negreanu, who's more enthused to be playing than he has been in a long time, even using his rare days off to get hands in. Fifty-thousand hands is a lot of experience and a lot of education, albeit at a potentially expensive price. Of course, with his track record of success, the guess here is he won't pay too much for it in the long run. Gary Wise is a poker columnist for ESPN.com.

[govikes 0]

WFT happened to this forum......................................................................................................bump

[FCP Bob 1,320]

Daniel played on Monday after getting knocked out of the tourney and lost about $80K and played again last night and won about the same as he lost the night before.He's playing right now and I have no idea how he's doing in this session.

[MaxStPolish 4]

thx for bump vikes, i missed this.I think it's just that this news is pretty much the ongoing basis for this 100/200 thread. The forum is fine. There's just nothing really "new" from this. That said thx for post and bump bob/vikes.

[Arsenic 0]

just seen him take down 25 k with AK, he's still got it'

[Arsenic 0]

GANGSTER D!!!! HAHA 567 board, hes got 3,4, ZeeJustin flops 555.All in on flopDanny holds for 59 K

[TheWynn 0]

He's up to 113k now.

[govikes 0]

Kinnda funny....the waiting list used to be 20 deep when he started playing online again (a couple months ago). Pretty soon hes going to have to pay to get action...