New Challenge: Movin' On Up

[trystero 0]

ahhhhh my eye balls... I didnt realize they had a free promo going last couple days, so last night i watched 6hours of video's while playing a table... So I might have watched that one, lol.The first two I watched were on stealing and 3betting. So last night i decided to attempt to apply some of the logic. Well all be damned if it didnt work, I admit I spazzed a few times just to see how far I could push a few people and paid the price. I should know if you push people too much its a bitch when they play back... lol. Usually I play around a 16vpip and 9pr with agression of 46... Last night over 100 hands I went 25/20/85 was up about 2 buy ins, then lost one due to nut flush < straight flushAnyways, thanks again for telling me about those video's, definitly going to sign up and watch them more regularly.Kosin Trouble

3-betting light at micro stakes is pointless. No one folds, reg or fish, so there's no point trying to bluff them off their hands. Even the "nits" will flat call w/hands like KJ/KQ when OOP. To 3-bet light at 5nl or 10nl is inappropriate imo. At 25nl things change, because you start to play people who can actually fold preflop because they realize being OOP w/dominated holdings is -EV.

[trystero 0]

1st hand dude had QTs2nd hand dude had AQo and I pwndwhy;d you stay up all night?

No doubt because he waited until the very last minute to do his assignments.

[KosinTrouble 0]

3-betting light at micro stakes is pointless. No one folds, reg or fish, so there's no point trying to bluff them off their hands. Even the "nits" will flat call w/hands like KJ/KQ when OOP. To 3-bet light at 5nl or 10nl is inappropriate imo. At 25nl things change, because you start to play people who can actually fold preflop because they realize being OOP w/dominated holdings is -EV.

I partially agree with this. My 3betting was not to induce folds. Although it was great when they did. Also my 3betting was pretty much only preflop, I rarely if ever 3bet post flop which is a huge leak I was aware of, I just didnt fix it.My 3betting is typically very very narrow, QQ,KK,AA sometimes AKs depending on position. Because no one folds at the 5nl tables, it would make more sense to open up my range a bit and 3bet a bit more, include TT,JJ, AKo and even AQ depending on table and person to get them to come into the pot for more money. Open my 3bet range a bit wider if I am on the button ect... None of this I was doing beforeWhen I usually play and I do a 3bet more times than not they would fold, only people that would call had really legit hands. Those I usually won with my cbet or I knew when the A came I had to c/f, or I could tell when they hit their set ect.., but i found I just wasnt winning enough money with my monster hands.Last night because I opened my 3bet range a bit more, I was getting called by the small pocket pairs, Ax and other garbage hands, because even though we went to show down and they saw that I was willing to 3bet with a AQ, they were willing to come in at an even wider range, in hopes to try to get me. i was also 3betting flop's and turns more, instead of just calling. When I hit a hand I just kept betting/reraising were as before I would just call.So where yes I agree with your statement in general, for me it is a big step because I am actually trying the whole 3bet concept.Kosin Trouble

[shynepo3 0]

I partially agree with this. My 3betting was not to induce folds. Although it was great when they did. Also my 3betting was pretty much only preflop, I rarely if ever 3bet post flop which is a huge leak I was aware of, I just didnt fix it.My 3betting is typically very very narrow, QQ,KK,AA sometimes AKs depending on position. Because no one folds at the 5nl tables, it would make more sense to open up my range a bit and 3bet a bit more, include TT,JJ, AKo and even AQ depending on table and person to get them to come into the pot for more money. Open my 3bet range a bit wider if I am on the button ect... None of this I was doing beforeWhen I usually play and I do a 3bet more times than not they would fold, only people that would call had really legit hands. Those I usually won with my cbet or I knew when the A came I had to c/f, or I could tell when they hit their set ect.., but i found I just wasnt winning enough money with my monster hands.Last night because I opened my 3bet range a bit more, I was getting called by the small pocket pairs, Ax and other garbage hands, because even though we went to show down and they saw that I was willing to 3bet with a AQ, they were willing to come in at an even wider range, in hopes to try to get me. i was also 3betting flop's and turns more, instead of just calling. When I hit a hand I just kept betting/reraising were as before I would just call.So where yes I agree with your statement in general, for me it is a big step because I am actually trying the whole 3bet concept.Kosin Trouble

are you playing 6 max? i'm wondering, 3 bet range..should i be 3-betting with AQ off in 6 max, 25nl & up? Or is that just trouble? I'm trying so hard to play online...i'm a better live player...but i keep tilting...jumping into a bigger game is so damn easy, u can't help but chase...

[shynepo3 0]

Also, did any of your fish watch that DC baluga whale video? its really good. it's free. he normally chargers $500/hr for coaching

u have a link for this?

[KingJames 11]

u have a link for this?

http://www.deucescracked.com/Then sign up for the free acct that gives you a user name and ability to post on the forums etc... then until friday you can watch all the videos for free

[jmbreslin 0]

3-betting light at micro stakes is pointless. No one folds, reg or fish, so there's no point trying to bluff them off their hands. Even the "nits" will flat call w/hands like KJ/KQ when OOP. To 3-bet light at 5nl or 10nl is inappropriate imo. At 25nl things change, because you start to play people who can actually fold preflop because they realize being OOP w/dominated holdings is -EV.

I'm a bit surprised at how profitable 3-betting is in 10NL Rush but that may be one thing that works better in Rush than regular cash games - in the latter people will pick up your 3-betting frequency and will call lighter, but in Rush people almost always credit you with a hand because of the lack of information at their disposal. I've actually cut back on my 3-betting for value with big pairs against LP raises because I was finding that villains would fold to my 3-bets a huge percentage of the time.

[KingJames 11]

Nanonoko was this weeks guest on deuceplays, the deuces cracked podcast... worth a listend/l on itunes

[Nashtak 0]

There is a voice inside of me that tells me to 3-bet my big hands because it's correct and another one that says ''Dude, you know he ain't gonna call your AK 3-bet unless he has you beat, like every single times before''.

[CobaltBlue 662]

There is a voice inside of me that tells me to 3-bet my big hands because it's correct and another one that says ''Dude, you know he ain't gonna call your AK 3-bet unless he has you beat, like every single times before''.

I mean, I'm kind of starting to doubt my aggression with AK after running into AA/KK constantly the past few days. That said, we're 3-betting it frequently because, while they may have the best hand, they may also call and fold the flop with a better one in a larger pot.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I mean, I'm kind of starting to doubt my aggression with AK after running into AA/KK constantly the past few days. That said, we're 3-betting it frequently because, while they may have the best hand, they may also call and fold the flop with a better one in a larger pot.

I think you have to balance your aggression with AK vs. the villains involved in the hand and the table conditions. AK is a GREAT hand to mix it up with vs. some people. Not so much vs. others. The villain matters.

[trystero 0]

AK can be a 3-bet/folding hand. TO some players that concept violates their rigid dogma, i.e. why raise if you're just going to fold? Uh, because we know that his 4-betting range consists of hands which crush us (AA/KK), and that his calling range consists of many hands that AK crushes (AQ/AJ/blahblah).

[KosinTrouble 0]

are you playing 6 max? i'm wondering, 3 bet range..should i be 3-betting with AQ off in 6 max, 25nl & up? Or is that just trouble? I'm trying so hard to play online...i'm a better live player...but i keep tilting...jumping into a bigger game is so damn easy, u can't help but chase...

No full ring.. 3 bet range is very much dependant on the villians. If its an extreme nit, then QQ,KK,AA is my only 3 bet hands. If its a 43/33 agro then I am going to start 3 betting a lot wider range. I guess that is part of the post that I missed adding. for me, the only hands i would 3bet preflop are the huge starters. Now after rewatching what I did last night and the video's there is so much more than just random 3bets. it is all dependent on the villian and on your image. If you 3bet someone 3 times in a row, that villian is going to play back.Again 3betting is a huge leak in my game in the sense I dont do it enough. I dont do it enough to A) get people to fold B) to increase the pot size for when i do have monster starting hands C) create a loser table image Kosin Trouble

[kepper 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP2 ($104.05)CO ($195)Button ($102)SB ($86.50)Hero (BB) ($166.30)UTG ($63.05)UTG+1 ($100)MP1 ($101.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with A , K 4 folds, CO bets $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, CO calls $7Flop: ($20.50) 10 , 2 , 8 (2 players)Hero bets $15, CO calls $15Turn: ($50.50) Q (2 players)Hero bets $33.60, CO calls $33.60River: ($117.70) J (2 players)Hero bets $107.70 (All-In), CO calls $107.70Total pot: $333.10 | Rake: $3Results:Hero had A , K (straight, Ace high).CO had A , 9 (straight, Queen high).Outcome: Hero won $330.10

[trystero 0]

J instead?

[trystero 0]

I'm a bit surprised at how profitable 3-betting is in 10NL Rush but that may be one thing that works better in Rush than regular cash games - in the latter people will pick up your 3-betting frequency and will call lighter, but in Rush people almost always credit you with a hand because of the lack of information at their disposal. I've actually cut back on my 3-betting for value with big pairs against LP raises because I was finding that villains would fold to my 3-bets a huge percentage of the time.

In Rush players also don't care because they can just fold and play another hand immediately.

[KosinTrouble 0]

LOL! BEST COMMENTS EVER! 2nd day making my 3bet wider and just betting like a mofo... Two regulars(have 700+ hands against) made the following comments..Villian1: WTF DUDE! You jack this account, you're not playing anything like you usually do.Villian2: AHOLE!!! Never playing at a table with you again, cant tell $hit on what you have....I guess it is working!Kosin Trouble

[KingJames 11]

Beat: I've been playing lolive for 2.5 hours and have played 1 handBrag: It was kings and I'm up moneyVariance: two fish have gone bust and two are two my right

[Nashtak 0]

I've been 3-betting and getting it in preflop a lot lately, which has been really swingy.Wondering if i wouldn't rather try to see some cheap flops and commit the least amount of my stack possible preflop (without Open-Limping). It would definitely be less swingy but maybe also more profitable.1. I strongly believe i can outplay my opponents post-flop. I'm not a good post-flop player but then again, we are talking about 2NL here.2. My opponents probably have zero knowledge about pot control and many don't even know about decent bet sizing. I take away all opportunities to have them make mistake in those situations when i do all the betting and commit so much of our stacks before the turn.3. Most importantly, the immense implied odds i will get from investing so low preflop.4. Many may disagree with this point but i feel 2NL players fear the 3-bet like if it was the plague. We all have this image of the really loose 2NL player who absolutely want to see a flop after he has limped in a pot but honestly, i haven't met that guy in the past 80k hands of playing on Full tilt (okay, i did, but he's a minority). My perspective of a 2NL player is more like this; he watched too much poker on TV and now he believes it's all about being really clever and tricky. He's gonna lay his queens to a 3-bet because HE KNOWS FOR A FACT that you have the aces. I would obviously still 3-bet but i might just call more in position.

[KingJames 11]

Lost a pot with 9 T on a A J 8 board vs A3o ftwLost an omaha pot with AQJT on K T 9 to a 7 8 4 5 :club:sigh home game-aments

[KingJames 11]

I really like his line:Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.05/$0.10 - 4 playersButton: $7.04 SB: $13.38 BB: $2.09 UTG: $12.91 (Hero)Preflop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with (4 players)Hero raises to $0.35, Button folds, SB calls $0.30, BB foldsFlop: ($0.80) (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, SB calls $0.50Turn: ($1.80) (2 players)SB bets $1.70, Hero raises to $5.90, SB calls $4.20River: ($13.60) (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $6.16, and is all in, SB calls $6.16SB mucked Hero showed , and won ($24.92) with a flush, Ace highHero won $24.92(Rake: $1)

[trystero 0]

Beat: I've been playing lolive for 2.5 hours and have played 1 handBrag: It was kings and I'm up moneyVariance: two fish have gone bust and two are two my right

So you've been dealt 20 hands?

[trystero 0]

I've been 3-betting and getting it in preflop a lot lately, which has been really swingy.Wondering if i wouldn't rather try to see some cheap flops and commit the least amount of my stack possible preflop (without Open-Limping). It would definitely be less swingy but maybe also more profitable.1. I strongly believe i can outplay my opponents post-flop. I'm not a good post-flop player but then again, we are talking about 2NL here.2. My opponents probably have zero knowledge about pot control and many don't even know about decent bet sizing. I take away all opportunities to have them make mistake in those situations when i do all the betting and commit so much of our stacks before the turn.3. Most importantly, the immense implied odds i will get from investing so low preflop.4. Many may disagree with this point but i feel 2NL players fear the 3-bet like if it was the plague. We all have this image of the really loose 2NL player who absolutely want to see a flop after he has limped in a pot but honestly, i haven't met that guy in the past 80k hands of playing on Full tilt (okay, i did, but he's a minority). My perspective of a 2NL player is more like this; he watched too much poker on TV and now he believes it's all about being really clever and tricky. He's gonna lay his queens to a 3-bet because HE KNOWS FOR A FACT that you have the aces. I would obviously still 3-bet but i might just call more in position.

wow I don't know what's going on; you must be on some sick kind of downswing to believe stuff like the bolded. Unfortunately HEM only imported about 5k hands from my 2nl experience (guess I hadn't ever put those in my pt2 DB), but in it my opponents as a whole folded to my 3-bets a whopping 22% of the time. Contrast that to 25nl where they're folding 71% of the time despite my 3-bet % being way way higher (small samples in both, but say that they're 30% and 60% really; tremendous difference).

[KosinTrouble 0]

I've been 3-betting and getting it in preflop a lot lately, which has been really swingy.Wondering if i wouldn't rather try to see some cheap flops and commit the least amount of my stack possible preflop (without Open-Limping). It would definitely be less swingy but maybe also more profitable.1. I strongly believe i can outplay my opponents post-flop. I'm not a good post-flop player but then again, we are talking about 2NL here.2. My opponents probably have zero knowledge about pot control and many don't even know about decent bet sizing. I take away all opportunities to have them make mistake in those situations when i do all the betting and commit so much of our stacks before the turn.3. Most importantly, the immense implied odds i will get from investing so low preflop.4. Many may disagree with this point but i feel 2NL players fear the 3-bet like if it was the plague. We all have this image of the really loose 2NL player who absolutely want to see a flop after he has limped in a pot but honestly, i haven't met that guy in the past 80k hands of playing on Full tilt (okay, i did, but he's a minority). My perspective of a 2NL player is more like this; he watched too much poker on TV and now he believes it's all about being really clever and tricky. He's gonna lay his queens to a 3-bet because HE KNOWS FOR A FACT that you have the aces. I would obviously still 3-bet but i might just call more in position.

I think right now you are trying to out think opponents that dont think...At our level they only see the cards they have. They dont understand implied odds, they dont understand pot equity ect.. If they see two painted cards, they are calling, they have an ace then "ohh ace thats good, I'll call", they have AJ then "Ohhh I have a monster"... The majority can only see the cards they have. Yes your opponents know nothing about pot control. To them, they have a pair and they are calling. they have a draw and they are calling. they have a true monster they are raising.As far as the 3betting, my pt3 says at 2nl my opponents fold to 3bet was 32%, fold to 4bet was 44%. so there is no way the majority of them are laying down qq's.I would say the opposite of them watching too much tv poker and saying I need to fold my qq's. they are probably thinking, I see durr call with crap and hit or steal pots all the time. I see the pro's playing garbage hands so can I. I see the pro's calling 3bets with nothing.Best advice I ever got was from Naked Cowboy... Edited it a bit but the jist of it is there...

At these stakes, imagine that your opponents are sitting at a desk with a button that says call that's about 1 foot in diameter. They also have a button that says fold that's about half an inch in diameter, and it's barely within reach. There's also a raise button, but it's in another room, guarded by a sharktopus. They have to press a button. They need a pretty compelling reason (Oh no, i only have ace high, bottom pair, etc are not compelling enough to them) to reach over to hit the tiny fold button, and they need a HUGE reason to go storm the sharktopus and raise. Got it?For the level you're playing, this is what i want you to do:You don't have to balance your range by cbetting flops you miss, because especially in a multiway pot, you aren't going to get your opponent to find their fold button. When you do make a pair, bet it. the stronger your made hand, the more you should bet. "but won't they know if i bet half pot i only have a pair and almost pot i have a big hand? that seems obvious" No, no they will not. I promise.

[KingJames 11]

So you've been dealt 20 hands?

diehome game with two decks, we keep it moving. It was at least 60-75 hands