DanielNegreanu 141 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 So we have about another week to add to a list of promises/lies that has come out of Mats Sundin.Here is the most recent one."I will decide sometime in August on my plans for the upcoming year"Here is where I stand now as a Leafs fan.I am frustrated by the wait. I am ok with him leaving, although I would love for him to finish his career here. If he ends up in Vancouver,Rangers or Philly I can live with that. If he goes to Montreal or Ottawa(not likely) then I will disown him.Can you imagine if Wayne Gretzky decided to finish his career in Calgary? If he signed with the Leafs, or if the Leafs actually signed him... both moves would be totally moronic. At this point the Leafs need to finally commit to losing and starting all over and give up on the pipedream of getting the 8th playoff spot. I don't like the Finger signing at all, and overall don't see a commitment to long term success based on their off season moves. Until they decide to commit to a long term plan I'll watch the Blackhawks. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 If he signed with the Leafs, or if the Leafs actually signed him... both moves would be totally moronic. At this point the Leafs need to finally commit to losing and starting all over and give up on the pipedream of getting the 8th playoff spot. I don't like the Finger signing at all, and overall don't see a commitment to long term success based on their off season moves. Until they decide to commit to a long term plan I'll watch the Blackhawks.sorry you are wrong...Finger will surprise you.Hagman,Grabovski and Kulemin are all good players that you will grow to appreciate.And Schenn is a monster to build a team around.Leafs will win more Stanley Cups than the Blackhawks will even sniff at in the next 20 years. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Serge, I drove through Pickering (well, sorta through, on the 401) on Tuesday and Thursday, and didn't see you. Link to post Share on other sites
rinswun 6 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 sorry you are wrong...Hagman,Grabovski and Kulemin are all good players that you will grow to appreciate.And Schenn is a monster to build a team around.Leafs will win more Stanley Cups than the Blackhawks will even sniff at in the next 20 years. the unbolded are fair comments. the bolded is ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
TheDaveyG 6 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 sorry you are wrong...Finger will surprise you.Hagman,Grabovski and Kulemin are all good players that you will grow to appreciate.And Schenn is a monster to build a team around.Leafs will win more Stanley Cups than the Blackhawks will even sniff at in the next 20 years. It was very frustrating to be a fan of the Blackhawks under Dollar Bill, but now they realize what needs to be done to have a successful franchise, both on and off the ice. The Hawks fans didn't support a losing team, but now that changes are taking place, the fans are coming back, FAST. Rocky and Mcdonough want to win VERY badly, and they have already shown they are willing to make big moves. Serge, you can't seriously say that you would rather have those guys you listed over Toews, Kane and Keith. It's damn hard to win a cup, and neither the Leafs or Hawks have done it a very long time, but making statements like the bold one above just makes you sound plain stupid. I would love to see a line-by-line comparison by Serge between the Hawks and Leafs for this year. I hope that if Beach makes the team, that Savvy puts Beach, Burris and Eager on a line together against the Leafs. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 It was very frustrating to be a fan of the Blackhawks under Dollar Bill, but now they realize what needs to be done to have a successful franchise, both on and off the ice. The Hawks fans didn't support a losing team, but now that changes are taking place, the fans are coming back, FAST. Rocky and Mcdonough want to win VERY badly, and they have already shown they are willing to make big moves. Serge, you can't seriously say that you would rather have those guys you listed over Toews, Kane and Keith. It's damn hard to win a cup, and neither the Leafs or Hawks have done it a very long time, but making statements like the bold one above just makes you sound plain stupid. I would love to see a line-by-line comparison by Serge between the Hawks and Leafs for this year. I hope that if Beach makes the team, that Savvy puts Beach, Burris and Eager on a line together against the Leafs.There is something you guys dont get and its the passion of hockey.Chicago Black Hawks have a following of a very small group of people in Chicago..If I had to guess it would be somewhere less than 100000..They are buried behind the Bears,Bulls,Sox and Cubs and probably whole bunch of college teams.Hockey in Toronto is a passion and i would say there are at least 5 million Leafs fans(some better than others) across the country. The Hawks may have some young players, but they dont have the fans.Thats all I say for now. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 There is something you guys dont get and its the passion of hockey.Chicago Black Hawks have a following of a very small group of people in Chicago..If I had to guess it would be somewhere less than 100000..They are buried behind the Bears,Bulls,Sox and Cubs and probably whole bunch of college teams.Hockey in Toronto is a passion and i would say there are at least 5 million Leafs fans(some better than others) across the country. The Hawks may have some young players, but they dont have the fans.Thats all I say for now.And there is something YOU don't get. All the fans and passion in the world won't make a champion out of a chump. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 The Hawks may have some young players, but they dont have the fans.Thats all I say for now.Not yet at least, however I believe this upcoming season will be the 1st year in their history that fans will be able to see every game on television. That should help market these great young players. Link to post Share on other sites
TheDaveyG 6 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 There is something you guys dont get and its the passion of hockey.Chicago Black Hawks have a following of a very small group of people in Chicago..If I had to guess it would be somewhere less than 100000..They are buried behind the Bears,Bulls,Sox and Cubs and probably whole bunch of college teams.Hockey in Toronto is a passion and i would say there are at least 5 million Leafs fans(some better than others) across the country. The Hawks may have some young players, but they dont have the fans.Thats all I say for now.You really have no clue. I'm not going to say the Hawks have more fans, but for you to say they only have 100,000 is just stupid. Oops, there's that word again. I really should get a thesaurus to find some synonyms for stupid if I'm going to keep replying to these moronic posts. The Blackhawks used to be THE ticket in town. They were the most team popular back in the day when the greats were here. Combine an owner who fans hated, along with a new stadium that didn't compare to the Chicago Stadium and throw in the success of other major sports teams and you have lower attendance. Everyone knew that the fans were still there, but a lot just didn't want to give Wirtz any money. Season ticket sales went up 300% this year, so that shows you that fans were just waiting to come back. They old scholl fans are back and they are getting new younger fans everyday. Plus, we have the best logo in sports. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 You really have no clue. I'm not going to say the Hawks have more fans, but for you to say they only have 100,000 is just stupid. Oops, there's that word again. I really should get a thesaurus to find some synonyms for stupid if I'm going to keep replying to these moronic posts. The Blackhawks used to be THE ticket in town. They were the most team popular back in the day when the greats were here. Combine an owner who fans hated, along with a new stadium that didn't compare to the Chicago Stadium and throw in the success of other major sports teams and you have lower attendance. Everyone knew that the fans were still there, but a lot just didn't want to give Wirtz any money. Season ticket sales went up 300% this year, so that shows you that fans were just waiting to come back. They old scholl fans are back and they are getting new younger fans everyday. Plus, we have the best logo in sports. Definitely the best logo for sure. I know that Serge would call those fans bandwagon jumpers, but I call them intelligent. They get dumped on again and again, and they stop coming. If ONLY that were true in Toronto would it be possible for them to actually depend on a long term plan and stop with the band-aids, a la Jeff Finger. He's alight, and a good addition to a team in contention, but the Leafs won't be anytime soon. Adding Finger does nothing positive for the Leafs future. Continue to gut the team, ice a team with only the young players and a few veteran leaders. Do that for three years, build a core... and become the NEXT Pittsburgh... Washington... Chicago... Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I will be in Sweden August 31st. So will he... I'll ask him.Daniel, will you be stopping by Macau for APPT during your travels?Fred Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 He's done. Guaranteed, he's done. You heard it here first kids... Link to post Share on other sites
strategy 4 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 He's done. Guaranteed, he's done. You heard it here first kids...would you like to bet on it with serge? Link to post Share on other sites
Belanger25 3 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Someone tell Serge. He may want to bet on it!I didn't read Strats post and now I realize I posted the same thing. I fail. Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I just hope we eventually get a 'this is when and why I knew' after it happens. Otherwise it's a 'you said you knew and then it happened' which means nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
atomic_tea 0 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 its getting annoying that hes taking so much time to know if he still wants to play or nothe's still one of the top center in the league, why would he wants to retire....=T, imo he's waiting to receive an gigantic offer....is there a max salary a player can get? Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I just hope we eventually get a 'this is when and why I knew' after it happens. Otherwise it's a 'you said you knew and then it happened' which means nothing. I'm not going to Sweden tomorrow for my health... he is retiring... for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 its getting annoying that hes talking so much time to know if he still wants to play or nothe's still one of the top center in the league, why would he wants to retire....=T, imo he's waiting to receive an gigantic offer....is there a max salary a player can get?I would imagine retiring from something you love is not an easy decision. Anyone has the right to take their time on such a big decision. Also, he already had a gigantic offer of $10,000,000 from the Canucks. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I would imagine retiring from something you love is not an easy decision. Anyone has the right to take their time on such a big decision. Also, he already had a gigantic offer of $10,000,000 from the Canucks.$10m x 2! Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I would imagine retiring from something you love is not an easy decision. Anyone has the right to take their time on such a big decision. Also, he already had a gigantic offer of $10,000,000 from the Canucks.well said.I have no idea why people are being hard on him, and why I keep seeing "anonymous NHL insider says Sundin holding up lots of teams, frustrating them with his timing". What a coward. If your gonna rip someone for making up his mind about retiring or just accepting a new contract, be man enough to stand behind your opinions. Sundin does not owe anyone in the NHL, or anywhere, anything. If, and when, he wants to work, he will, and someone will pay him a lot of money to do so. If not, at least he took his time to make the right decision and he can make that call in peace. For the GM's who are whining, if its messing you up that much, move on and find someone else if thats what your team needs. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 well said.I have no idea why people are being hard on him, and why I keep seeing "anonymous NHL insider says Sundin holding up lots of teams, frustrating them with his timing". What a coward. If your gonna rip someone for making up his mind about retiring or just accepting a new contract, be man enough to stand behind your opinions. Sundin does not owe anyone in the NHL, or anywhere, anything. If, and when, he wants to work, he will, and someone will pay him a lot of money to do so. If not, at least he took his time to make the right decision and he can make that call in peace. For the GM's who are whining, if its messing you up that much, move on and find someone else if thats what your team needs.Arp we arent being hard on him for that. I am just upset with the fact that we have been lied to..he said on many occasions"I want to finish my career in Toronto""I am not interested in going to a contender and being a rent a player""I will decide sometime in August" Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Arp we arent being hard on him for that. I am just upset with the fact that we have been lied to..he said on many occasions"I want to finish my career in Toronto""I am not interested in going to a contender and being a rent a player""I will decide sometime in August"The first two look to be true. The third was never said by Sundin, but by JP Barry Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Arp we arent being hard on him for that. I am just upset with the fact that we have been lied to..he said on many occasions"I want to finish my career in Toronto""I am not interested in going to a contender and being a rent a player""I will decide sometime in August"None of those have been proven wrong....yet.1. maybe he really does want to finish his career in TO. But other factors are pushing him away from that, and have nothing to do with money/loyalty. If the team is looking to rebuild, and he doesnt feel like he has a proper role here, maybe he thinks its better to move on. Or just retire. Saying he WANTS to finish his career here does not mean he has to. Just means thats what he would have preferred.2. Going to a team now doesnt make him a rental, in my opinion.3. As Gruven said, probably just something his agent said, and to be honest, even if it was Sundin who said, so what. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head, any team can choose to rescind any offer they have made him and move on.I have no issue with a hockey player, or anyone, deciding in their own time if they want to go back to work. I have an issue with those who sign contracts, and then don't honour them. Let's not confuse the two. Why everyone berates Sundin and leaves a Radulov alone I have no idea, other than the media fixating on a Leafs issue.If I was the NHL, I'd consider suspending Radulov. Of course, that just hurts Nashville, so no can do. But his type of selfishness is what pisses me off the most. Im just glad we are done, for the most part, with all the bs contract holdouts of years past. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 None of those have been proven wrong....yet.1. maybe he really does want to finish his career in TO. But other factors are pushing him away from that, and have nothing to do with money/loyalty. If the team is looking to rebuild, and he doesnt feel like he has a proper role here, maybe he thinks its better to move on. Or just retire. Saying he WANTS to finish his career here does not mean he has to. Just means thats what he would have preferred.2. Going to a team now doesnt make him a rental, in my opinion.3. As Gruven said, probably just something his agent said, and to be honest, even if it was Sundin who said, so what. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head, any team can choose to rescind any offer they have made him and move on.I have no issue with a hockey player, or anyone, deciding in their own time if they want to go back to work. I have an issue with those who sign contracts, and then don't honour them. Let's not confuse the two. Why everyone berates Sundin and leaves a Radulov alone I have no idea, other than the media fixating on a Leafs issue.If I was the NHL, I'd consider suspending Radulov. Of course, that just hurts Nashville, so no can do. But his type of selfishness is what pisses me off the most. Im just glad we are done, for the most part, with all the bs contract holdouts of years past.I agree about Radulov for sure....Also some people have been equating Sundin to Niedermayer..Two totally different situations...Sundin is a free agent and he has the right to do whatever he wants....Niedermayer weaseled his way into getting his way, while he had a contract . Link to post Share on other sites
strategy 4 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 re: radulov.. pretty sure the preds set a deadline for sept. 1 and THEN will start screaming about his breach of contract. Link to post Share on other sites
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