I Quit Online Tourneys

[steve7stud 0]

I'll try to explain why I'm making this decision....it's not that they're for suckers or anything.....Most of my winning online tourney friends make a decent 15-20k a month, one of my friends has gone on like a 200k rush in the past month and a half or so, he also doesn't have any free time during the day AT ALL, to make this kind of money playing tourneys you can't just play a few tourneys a week you have to play MOST of them. Before, the reason I played tourneys online is because I had fun playing them, I had fun trying to get 1st and the rush of winning is huge, even a small tourney....Now, say I play 5/10 - 25/50 nl on a regular basis, my swings are pretty huge. So lately, playing the 100r for 30k or whatever just doesnt really motivate me at all, its not that 30k wouldnt be AWESOME for me because they are, its that I know my chance of winning is slim, I usually don't get "into" the tourney until the final 40 or so and even then I'm pretty bored because I know I'm still far from the 30k score, this makes my ROI suffer because I just gamble too much. In a cash game I always try to play well because its my money at risk, my winrate is bigger though and the time spent playing is way smaller. So even though I still prefer playing tourneys in general (live tourneys) over cash games, online tourneys now bore me just as much as online cash games lately, the only difference is that I can actually have whatever schedule I want, I can make more money, and I am not miserable all day when I bubble a FT. Its not that I found the light like hoosier said we've talked about this for hours on end and its obv cash games are better than tourneys, up until now though I had fun playing online tourneys and thats why I played them, so yea, now I'm bored and I hate the tiny skill factor involved deep when it actually counts so I'm done online other than the huge ones...

Cash games more profitable than tourneys? I've heard that, can't remember who said it...............

[Fluffdog87 2]

Cash games more profitable than tourneys? I've heard that, can't remember who said it...............

Was it me or you? Or both of us?Gl in teh cash games!

[ObeyTheDog 0]

My 2 cents....Here's what I learned about myself since turn pro two years ago. I learned....(cue inspirational music)Lesson #1: I don't want to grind cash games, online or otherwise.Why?Online, I couldn't stand it. After 6 straight months of 30/60 limit at UB and Party (the good ol days) and playing 2-4NL shorthanded, I just hated life. I was playing 50 hours a week. The on weeks were very good, especially on Party, the down weeks...ok those sucked, but they happen, variance, blah blah blah. I learned a lot. I was outplayed by some very good players which improved my game and I worked very hard and tirelessly. At the end of it all, I knew I could beat those games consistently, but I hated my life, hated poker, and began to feel my passion for the game and the grind gone. Those long weeks helped build my bankroll, helped me buy my first house, and helped me be able to play the bigger buyin tourneys so I could improve my game. For some, this is not a problem grinding endlessly and moving up in limits. For me, it was. I got burnt out very easily. I mean, 6 months!! Are you joking?I took a step back. I found tourneys again.Then came Lesson #2.I realized that while I once started out playing poker for money, especially in college, I now did not play it for money. I played it because it scratched a much different itch. It was the competition. It was the feeling of accomplishment. It was the challenge. It may sound a bit metaphorical, but it was the journey that I sought, not the desitnation. While the money was nice, I wanted to use creativity. I wanted to be in environments with more pressure, with a beginning, middle, and end, with a seemingly insurmountable obstacle where there are winners and losers. Tournament poker provided that.Then came Lesson #3.I don't want to grind tournaments.So I can't grind cash games because it burns me out, why can't I grind tournaments? Because of what JC is talking about, especially online, and virtually any daily live tourney in your local cardroom, even Vegas for the most part. Unless you're playing a major event, it's just not conducive to my style. I'm not good at shove fests. I probably actually suck at them. I'm pretty bad at maximizing small edges, and I'm not very good at making preflop reads or playing homerun poker, swinging for the fences. Most online tourneys that you'd "grind" don't provide this. The ones that sort of do, I still don't enjoy that much because it's online, and I'd much rather be sitting at a table where I have a bigger edge.So I made a decision, and this is where I've been since January when I moved here. That is, I'm basically semi-pro, and play very little poker. I don't grind cash games. I don't grind tournaments. I play maybe 5 tournaments a week total, probably 3 online, which is so far off the radar of what a full-time player SHOULD be playing, it's sick. People laugh at that. I then wait around for the good tourneys to come to Vegas, I play those, I'll always play the WSOP even though most of those events suck, and I'll play satellites for seats into majors. And you know what? I'm perfectly happy with it. It WORKS for me. I've still made more than enough to cover my expenses. Still had those few nice tourney scores per year to keep me chugging along. I know it's a little risky to basically bank on a few wins or sunday major final tables to carry the entire year, but I know the opposite is also true, that playing every tourney can kill my game, can really make me hate what I do, and lose a lot of money doing it. I play ONLY the tourneys I want to play, I don't have a real job, I have my own life outside of poker where I don't get burnt out grinding away the hours for every lost dollar, and I KNOW 100% that it's the right life for me right now. Any more and I'd get burnt out and angry again. Any more and I'd likely quit it completely and lose my love for this game.Poker is just as much about intra-personal as it is inter-personal skills. You have to understand yourself to be successful.

[gatortom64 1]

Nice post OTD. I am lucky, I guess, to actually have a job and play poker for fun. The only grinding I do is my teeth when some donk hits his 2 outer on me. Oh well. Poker is fun, For everyone....

[no not baxter 0]

That's what I hope to be doing soon

[leftygolfer 7]

My 2 cents....

POTY...ok Balloon Guy is pretty good, but his usually only talk about cigars, vacations, how rich he is and Barak Obama. Good to see some solid and coherent poker content. GL Sir.

[Dratj 0]

Cash games more profitable than tourneys? I've heard that, can't remember who said it...............

Unless you're a guy like DN or Hellmuth etc. , thriving off endorsements from their big tourney wins.

[silkyjonson 1]

Play PLO and you can print your own money/thread

[Ladi77 0]

Then came Lesson #2.I realized that while I once started out playing poker for money, especially in college, I now did not play it for money. I played it because it scratched a much different itch. It was the competition. It was the feeling of accomplishment. It was the challenge. It may sound a bit metaphorical, but it was the journey that I sought, not the desitnation. While the money was nice, I wanted to use creativity. I wanted to be in environments with more pressure, with a beginning, middle, and end, with a seemingly insurmountable obstacle where there are winners and losers. Tournament poker provided that.Poker is just as much about intra-personal as it is inter-personal skills. You have to understand yourself to be successful.

Nice post Dog...couldn't agree more. That is exactly how I feel about poker and playing tourneys. It never is about the money...my job pays the bills so I'm happy.I wouldn't give up on tourneys if I were in your shoes. Maybe you just need to take a step back and find that "itch" again and then get back in the game.Ladi

[No_Neck 0]

Play PLO and you can print your own money/thread

not the way I play PLO

[Royal_Tour 0]

cash games keep me sane.online tourneys annoy me, see the bad beat forum.

[Potsie P 0]

I <3 Obey. We'd pretty much be cut from the same cloth if only his tag didn't read, "100% Sharkskin" and mine didn't read, "100% Donkeyhide."

[Whatever 1]

Cash games more profitable than tourneys? I've heard that, can't remember who said it...............

Yay for Smasharoo!!! He had it all figured out years ago.

[drcossack 0]

drcossack 2 outed me on the river of a sng bubble once like 9 months ago. dont ask me why i remember that, other than i used to post on the Full Tilt forums before I realized how much of a joke they are.

I certainly don't remember that, hehe. I'm assuming it was NLHE? I don't remember NLHE hands unless it was something big (quads), an AA/KK AIPF, or my Aces got cracked by some ridiculous garbage (72o.)I do, however, remember most of my LHE/Stud/Razz hands.As far as the tourneys/cash games side of the thread:I started off as a tourney player. I didn't really start ring games until I began playing for $$$ online, and I was terrible, though I enjoyed it.Back in March, I played a $5.50 Stud tourney and got 2nd (for $53.80, I think.) It was fun, but I realized how stressful it was. I <3 playing Stud, but I can usually play it for an hour or so before I need to stop for a few minutes.I got to play some rings on Stars and FTP a while ago (around WSOP time, I believe), and they were infinitely more enjoyable than tourneys were. They're relaxing, and besides that, I can make more money in one hour of ring games than I can in 3-5 hours of a tourney.That said, I don't mind tourneys (if they're deep stack w/a good structure), but preflop play is excessively annoying.

[BigLebowski 0]

Play PLO and you can print your own money/thread

Do pesos circa 1985 count? If so, I have meeeelions of those.I bounce from cash NLHE, tourney everything, sng NLHE, tourney everything, cash LHE, tourney everything, cash PLO, and reverse again. Right now I am stuck on cash PLO although I sneak a MTT tourney in every now and then. I have learned one lesson. I am profitable at every single thing I play and blow it all in MTT's. Apparently that is my kryptonite. The sad thing is I don't even care about the big score. I like the challenge as well which means I am failing miserably.

[Abbaddabba 0]

The fact that we all know who you are means you're probably running way better than average over your lifetime.Plz donate a chunk of money this way before rescinding your MTT players card.

[gmanshade 0]

My 2 cents....Here's what I learned about myself since turn pro two years ago. I learned....(cue inspirational music)Lesson #1: I don't want to grind cash games, online or otherwise.Why?Online, I couldn't stand it. After 6 straight months of 30/60 limit at UB and Party (the good ol days) and playing 2-4NL shorthanded, I just hated life. I was playing 50 hours a week. The on weeks were very good, especially on Party, the down weeks...ok those sucked, but they happen, variance, blah blah blah. I learned a lot. I was outplayed by some very good players which improved my game and I worked very hard and tirelessly. At the end of it all, I knew I could beat those games consistently, but I hated my life, hated poker, and began to feel my passion for the game and the grind gone. Those long weeks helped build my bankroll, helped me buy my first house, and helped me be able to play the bigger buyin tourneys so I could improve my game. For some, this is not a problem grinding endlessly and moving up in limits. For me, it was. I got burnt out very easily. I mean, 6 months!! Are you joking?I took a step back. I found tourneys again.Then came Lesson #2.I realized that while I once started out playing poker for money, especially in college, I now did not play it for money. I played it because it scratched a much different itch. It was the competition. It was the feeling of accomplishment. It was the challenge. It may sound a bit metaphorical, but it was the journey that I sought, not the desitnation. While the money was nice, I wanted to use creativity. I wanted to be in environments with more pressure, with a beginning, middle, and end, with a seemingly insurmountable obstacle where there are winners and losers. Tournament poker provided that.Then came Lesson #3.I don't want to grind tournaments.So I can't grind cash games because it burns me out, why can't I grind tournaments? Because of what JC is talking about, especially online, and virtually any daily live tourney in your local cardroom, even Vegas for the most part. Unless you're playing a major event, it's just not conducive to my style. I'm not good at shove fests. I probably actually suck at them. I'm pretty bad at maximizing small edges, and I'm not very good at making preflop reads or playing homerun poker, swinging for the fences. Most online tourneys that you'd "grind" don't provide this. The ones that sort of do, I still don't enjoy that much because it's online, and I'd much rather be sitting at a table where I have a bigger edge.So I made a decision, and this is where I've been since January when I moved here. That is, I'm basically semi-pro, and play very little poker. I don't grind cash games. I don't grind tournaments. I play maybe 5 tournaments a week total, probably 3 online, which is so far off the radar of what a full-time player SHOULD be playing, it's sick. People laugh at that. I then wait around for the good tourneys to come to Vegas, I play those, I'll always play the WSOP even though most of those events suck, and I'll play satellites for seats into majors. And you know what? I'm perfectly happy with it. It WORKS for me. I've still made more than enough to cover my expenses. Still had those few nice tourney scores per year to keep me chugging along. I know it's a little risky to basically bank on a few wins or sunday major final tables to carry the entire year, but I know the opposite is also true, that playing every tourney can kill my game, can really make me hate what I do, and lose a lot of money doing it. I play ONLY the tourneys I want to play, I don't have a real job, I have my own life outside of poker where I don't get burnt out grinding away the hours for every lost dollar, and I KNOW 100% that it's the right life for me right now. Any more and I'd get burnt out and angry again. Any more and I'd likely quit it completely and lose my love for this game.Poker is just as much about intra-personal as it is inter-personal skills. You have to understand yourself to be successful.

this is in the HOF of useful posts on this site.this is completely true. some people need the structure of MTTs, some people need the freedom of cash games, some people are able to play their "A" game playing 40 hrs a week, some people (for instance, taylor caby who plays on average 8 hrs a week) can play very well but it has to be a short period of time. A+ postmyself, i've decided to just play SNGs $5-$20 and MTTs $2-$10 b/c it suits my personality, my bankroll, my ability, my level of interest, and my lifestyle. there are probably even more factors than this that are relevant, but the point is to consider your situation as a unique one.

[Tiltinagain 973]

Mad props to ObeyTheDog for yet another very good, insightful post. I have enjoyed virtually everything you've written since you began to post here.PartyPSux, you have enough skill and talent to succeed at whatever form of poker you choose so I'm glad to see you're going with what makes you happy and keeps you sane rather than trying to impress anybody or show up on the online rankings or whatever else by playing such a huge volume of MTT's that it burns you out.I said a long time ago that, while I have the utmost respect and admiration for those of you that can and are doing it, I just can not sit in front of my computer for 4, 8, 10 hours or whatever it takes to FT a "normal" sized online MTT. Hell, with all the distractions, tv, kids, dog, wife etc... it was all I could do to concentrate long enough for a 180 lol. I also had a very hard time taking online poker seriously and found myself playing ultra loose/donkish just because I was bored and was trying to make it more exciting.Needless to say, after depositing a few times, winning several small sng's and donking off the rest in cash games and MTT's, I've been online busto for three months or so. It's become such a hassle to get money online (quickly anyway) that I haven't even bothered to try anymore and don't miss it enough to care.I love to play live. Tourneys, cash, doesn't really matter. I enjoy the social aspect, I'm focused on what I'm there to do (play poker) and I'm way more profitable. Am I ever going to be able to make a living at it? Hell no but I'm fine with that. Poker is my escape...where I can go play a 6 hour session and not think about work, home or anything else but poker with a bunch of other people that, for the most part, are there for the same thing.The key is that it doesn't really matter what you're doing, if it becomes a grind you're not going to enjoy it, won't be as productive at it and will start to dread doing it, whether it's poker, your job, your gf ( ) You get the idea.

[WhatArunAA 0]

I had a dream about you last night PPSux.. we were going to some big tourney ( dont remember which one).. thats kinda pathetic considering I dont even know you personally... You are no longer a figment of online anonymity.. you are a part of my dreams.

[ForRealDD 0]

I had a dream about you last night PPSux.. we were going to some big tourney ( dont remember which one).. thats kinda pathetic considering I dont even know you personally... You are no longer a figment of online anonymity.. you are a part of my dreams.

Cute. I obviously never get dreamt about.

[gmanshade 0]

I had a dream about you last night PPSux.. we were going to some big tourney ( dont remember which one).. thats kinda pathetic considering I dont even know you personally... You are no longer a figment of online anonymity.. you are a part of my dreams.

I had a dream a couple nights ago where I was playing against MTT and one of the other players was myself. we both made the final table, and at the end it was the two of us heads up. i was making all of these moves, i remember i pushed allin with Kh8h on an A 7 4 board (two diamonds) and i folded on the other end. anyway the HU match went on and on for a long time, and then i suddenly realized "why am i playing so hard? either i win or the other me wins." shipppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

[king1305 0]

I had a dream a couple nights ago where I was playing against MTT and one of the other players was myself. we both made the final table, and at the end it was the two of us heads up. i was making all of these moves, i remember i pushed allin with Kh8h on an A 7 4 board (two diamonds) and i folded on the other end. anyway the HU match went on and on for a long time, and then i suddenly realized "why am i playing so hard? either i win or the other me wins." shipppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

You left, did you not?

[gmanshade 0]

You left, did you not?

ummmmmmmmmmmm..............nodaniel n stepped in to get the 5-0 off my back, and now i have free reign again

[TB17 0]

I had a dream about you last night PPSux.. we were going to some big tourney ( dont remember which one).. thats kinda pathetic considering I dont even know you personally... You are no longer a figment of online anonymity.. you are a part of my dreams.

Did he come flying through the window while you were in bed?

[ObeyTheDog 0]

Nice post Dog...couldn't agree more. That is exactly how I feel about poker and playing tourneys. It never is about the money...my job pays the bills so I'm happy.I wouldn't give up on tourneys if I were in your shoes. Maybe you just need to take a step back and find that "itch" again and then get back in the game.Ladi

I have NOT given up tourneys. That's all I do now. I just gave up grinding them. Meaning I'll never be "BelowAboving" it playing seemingly almost every tourney almost every day of the week shooting for TLB. And to gman, that's exactly what I was trying to say, glad to see people get what I was saying, because sometimes I'm not quite sure if I'm making it clear. Bottom line is, if I can save someone/help someone learning those same lessons it took me a LONG time to learn, then I'm happy. Something tells me though, we all have to learn them through experience, because we've all had that one "great" night where we think we know where we're at, and that one "terrible" night when we nearly give it all up.I'll close this thread with this...I'm nowhere near where I want to be as a player. I'm nowhere near my potential. I'm nowhere near figuring this game out yet. And I'm glad as hell, because it keeps things exciting! The second you think you're a teacher and not a student is when this game will become more difficult than you can ever imagine. Leave your egos at the door.