My Wsop Main Event Bust Out Hand

[pele_br 0]

39 User(s) are reading this topic (20 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)There seems to be no consensus whatsoever between everyone's opinions. How much longer does the OP intend to keep this discussion going?People are curious...

[bigbadbeat 0]

Just to be clear about my motives posting this, I'm not looking for justification for calling or an ego boost etc. I've already gotten input privately from people whom I respect, so it's not like I'm looking for posts like Bk's. I just thought it was a very interesting hand on all accounts (how it played out, how it could have played out if either of us plays it differently, etc) and would spur a lot of good discussion. Believe me when I say that I've replayed the hand thousands of times in my head with different actions on both of our parts. :)Carry on.

Okay then, ignore abosolutely everything i said

[zmoney 0]

Hey PMJBeing as I and many others have been paying attention to this thread for hours waiting for you to reveal the villians hole cards. Could You? Or hell at leat PM me them

[PMJackson21 0]

Okay then, ignore abosolutely everything i said

LOL, that would be awfully arrogant of me. Everyone's opinion is always welcome.As for how long I will go until I post the results, I don't know. In the words of Colonel Sandurz from Spaceballs, "Soon."

[ah2388 0]

i cant imagine him having complete air here, and id guesstimate that he has a big draw, and is hoping to push you off of a weak q given your imageresults plz

[Royal_Tour 0]

LOL, that would be awfully arrogant of me. Everyone's opinion is always welcome.As for how long I will go until I post the results, I don't know. In the words of Colonel Sandurz from Spaceballs, "Soon."

Just post it already gaaaw!p.s. my roommate has the 335i now, lowered with chip. i'll post some pics for u

[PMJackson21 0]

Just post it already gaaaw!p.s. my roommate has the 335i now, lowered with chip. i'll post some pics for u

When Im down to less then 5 tables...much less lol.335 so sick...jealous obv.

[Dratj 0]

Lead the flop and control the pot size. I'm nitty so I don't like trips with questionable kicker. I always try to keep the pot small and not stick all my chips in with trips. Villian could easily have KQ or AQ. Best case scenario for you, he has KJ of clubs which I think is his most likely holding. Ok, that being said, you are likely way better at poker than I am, so tell me how my thinking is wrong.

[Dratj 0]

Just post it already gaaaw!p.s. my roommate has the 335i now, lowered with chip. i'll post some pics for u

If your roommate can afford a 335i, why does he need a roommate?

[gatortom64 1]

If your roommate can afford a 335i, why does he need a roommate?

Buttsecks!!! DUH!!!!

[Berak 0]

Holy cow at some of this analysis. PMJ- I don't want to sound like an ***, but I think a big part of you knows that calling this shove is absolutely the correct play. If you were to really look at the range of an overaggro player on a draw heavy, pair on the board flop, it would be very wide. I mean, everybody seems to think that the guy "knows" you have a queen and is shoving accordingly. I would guess with a c/r here you almost never have a queen, and that he could be shoving naked tens, draws, big draws, JJ/KK/AA, and random air occasionally (but rarely). If you are playing to win at all, you have to call here everytime.

I am in agreement with Grinder (and several others) here. If your not calling with that flop and your hand, you probably shouldn't be calling the pre-flop raise to begin with, IMO. Are you only calling all in with the nuts on the flop against him? The way the play was described and the aggro player, I think people are giving WAY too much credit to the villian in what he is holding and also WAY too much credit to his thought process.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

I am in agreement with Grinder (and several others) here. If your not calling with that flop and your hand, you probably shouldn't be calling the pre-flop raise to begin with, IMO. Are you only calling all in with the nuts on the flop against him? The way the play was described and the aggro player, I think people are giving WAY too much credit to the villian in what he is holding.

I read all 7 pages and finally come to the very last post which makes the most sense. KJc or Ax clubs I'm thinking. For some reason, I'm seeing an Ace falling on the river to make straight with KJ. The 9 kicker is blocking the straight for KJ, so I'm coming here every time against a guy who has raised my big blind every round.

[Royal_Tour 0]

If your roommate can afford a 335i, why does he need a roommate?

he doesnt.the house we live in is paid off. Not every 25 year old male is an introvert. Have you seen the show Entourage? If no, let me just say that sometimes people have what are called "friends" sometimes these "friends" have wealthy parents who own large companies. These parents will usually purchase things for their children, and those children often share these purchases with friends.In this example, its a 2400sq ft home with 4 bedrooms. 2 of which are being rented out by his "friends".hope that helped.

[Potomophobia 17]

With all due respect to the OP...."I'm not looking for justification for calling or an ego boost etc. I've already gotten input privately from people whom I respect, so it's not like I'm looking for posts"Then what are you looking for?So..... how long do you intend to draw this out?Jeez..... in the grands scheme of things...... it's just another poker hand.You had me interested at first. Now I just don't give a damn.

[irishguy 14]

With all due respect to the OP...."I'm not looking for justification for calling or an ego boost etc. I've already gotten input privately from people whom I respect, so it's not like I'm looking for posts"Then what are you looking for?So..... how long do you intend to draw this out?Jeez..... in the grands scheme of things...... it's just another poker hand.You had me interested at first. Now I just don't give a damn.

I'm guessing he's looking to stir poker discussion in a poker forum. I was going to reply with more but in the grand scheme of things your post is just a post and I just don't give a damn.

[BeaverStyle 1]

Reading some of the responses in this thread have given me a new perspective on how to analyze a hand in progress. I feel like I've lost whatever edge I was gathering in MTT poker... but if we get more discussions like this, It'll help.PMJ, tell us his hand for christ's sake? My vote is KJc, or Qx, higher than 9, essentially a cold-deck.

[psujohn 0]

Then what are you looking for?So..... how long do you intend to draw this out?

You never read strat do you? This thread has generated 7 pages of posts and 90% of them are intelligent well thought out strategy posts that make the readers better players.I'll disagree with those who say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't call pre-flop". I'd say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't c/r the flop". I'll also say that I think Obey The Dog has probably the most interesting and "best" plan for this hand. Very different but a very, very interesting take.FWIW I hope PMJ doesn't post villains hand or the turn/river cards. They add nothing to the discussion.

[BeaverStyle 1]

FWIW I hope PMJ doesn't post villains hand or the turn/river cards. They add nothing to the discussion.

I think this is true. Given the discussion on the villain's play, though, I don't think a fold can be warranted here. The only other change I can imagine is leading out, and 3-betting all in.... This puts the pressure on your opponent, who now has to call 120k w/ a draw... or a made hand... dunno which one. Only reason i wanna know the hand is ... well i'm curious.

[NoSup4U 0]

I'll disagree with those who say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't call pre-flop". I'd say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't c/r the flop".

I'm on board with this. If I ever check raise someone with a made hand, its basically never with the intent of folding when they shove. I dunno if thats absolutely correct for tourneys so w/e. But I don't have any problem getting my money in on that board.Mark

[Coyote18 0]

I'm on board with this. If I ever check raise someone with a made hand, its basically never with the intent of folding when they shove. I dunno if thats absolutely correct for tourneys so w/e. But I don't have any problem getting my money in on that board.

I agree that is not your intention but after you check raise, you recieve more information when your opponent pushes. You can't decide what you're going to do two blocks down the road without seeing what is on that block.

[bobbywithani 0]

I'll disagree with those who say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't call pre-flop". I'd say "if you don't insta-call you shouldn't c/r the flop".

So are you saying that we should call, or that it was a mistake to c/r? I mean if we realize that it was a poor time to c/r then we can cetainly find a fold.

[VernonME 0]

I'm dieing to see these results..

[dbrent2 0]

Now I know why I need to venture over to strat more often. This is a great thread, thanks PMJ for posting this. My 2 pesos:I have him on a straight draw with a backdoor flush...

[PMJackson21 0]

With all due respect to the OP...."I'm not looking for justification for calling or an ego boost etc. I've already gotten input privately from people whom I respect, so it's not like I'm looking for posts"Then what are you looking for?So..... how long do you intend to draw this out?Jeez..... in the grands scheme of things...... it's just another poker hand.You had me interested at first. Now I just don't give a damn.

Sorry I lost your interest. Now, my ego does need a boost... :(I'm not trying to be a prick drawing it out, I'm allowing it to be seen/discussed by everyone before effectively ruining the debate. Regardless of intentions, people aren't usually able to analyze a hand correctly if they know the results.

[bobbywithani 0]

Sorry I lost your interest. Now, my ego does need a boost... :(I'm not trying to be a prick drawing it out, I'm allowing it to be seen/discussed by everyone before effectively ruining the debate. Regardless of intentions, people aren't usually able to analyze a hand correctly if they know the results.

Oh wait a couple of days, I want to see people talk about it more.