Wsop Main Event Final Table Rail Thread

[Andr4w 0]

QFT. Yang didn't play by-the-book poker (or, more XYZ than ABC ), but most of his decision were reasonable and his mistakes (like the JT call) were not that significant to the overall outcome.All the criticism against the ME winner was unfair to Raymer and Hachem, mostly unfair to Moneymaker and Gold and is unfair to Yang as well. He didn't play in a way most of the online poker forum users would have played but that doesn't necessarily make him a donk (and I'm saying that as someone who was fairly harsh on Yang at the beginning of the final table).And equally as important: Yang apparently is a friendly guy with an intriguing life story, so at least try to stay objective with your review of his plays.

I was also very critical on his early final table play, but you can't argue with what he's done and how he's gone about it. He was the only person at that final who went out to win it with sheer aggression and balls and he fully deserves it.

[Andr4w 0]

It's hard to say without the hole cards but all appearances are that Yang played terribly.- huge overbets pre and post flop that simply cannot be justified by any holding- the all-in call with A9 vs Watkinson was miserable- the all-in call with AK vs Hilm was questionableYou have to give him credit for being aggressive and taking everyone else at the table out of their game but if he doesn't win a few big hands early - where he undeniably got very lucky with marginal at best hands - he goes out the door in 9th place and is never heard from again.It's hard to tell for sure without the hole cards but it seemed like Yang got more than his fair share of hands early. And I don't think you can deny that he overplayed a lot of his hands and got lucky in the key spots - specially early on.In think that more than Yang winning this the others at the table lost it. How many times did we see people limp and fold to a Yang raise or raise and fold to a Yang re-raise? How many times do you need to bang your head into a wall before you realize it hurts and change your tactics. People got frustrated with Yang and made some bad decisions - Watkinson's push, Hilms push, Rahme's KK hand. I saw nothing from Yang to indicate that he was anything other than an aggrodonk.

Its not his fault his opponent tried to make moves and failed? Do we all have to play the same way and by the book?Give the guy some credit, he was not thinking about long term +EV, all he was thinking was how do I win this one off event that I'm never likely to reach the final table of again. Whilst his opponents sat there like startled rabbits in cars headlights he took them apart with sheer aggression and induced very weak plays on their part which they should not have done.Lets save any criticism for the poor play of his opponents (on the whole) and congratulate him on his fantastic achievement.

[benhoug 0]

Its not his fault his opponent tried to make moves and failed? Do we all have to play the same way and by the book?Lets save any criticism for the poor play of his opponents (on the whole) and congratulate him on his fantastic achievement.

So I didn't see the whole final table, but I did watch for 3 or 4 hours. Yeah, he was aggressive, but in the short amount of time I watched he:Tried to double-up the best player at the table w/ A9Raised 10X bb to open potsCalled all-ins w/ top pr/top kickerCalled all-ins w/ KQ, KJ, JT pre-flopIf I didn't know any better I'd say he was trying to lose and the deck just wouldn't let him.I applaud the guy for his humitarian efforts (donating 10% to charity), and his devotion to his family, but at a time when we're trying to prove poker is a game of skill WE DON'T need a guy like this carrying the torch for a year.

[Gallo 1]

So I take it that Yang won. I had a feeling this guy was gonna win only because of this analysis which was posted on pg2 of this superthread.------------------Seat 4: Jerry Yang (Temecula, Calif.)How Yang is still alive at this point baffles me for more than one reason. Yang has been the short stack for days and each time he doubles up, he loses his chips and needs to start all over again. Yang doubled up off of Alexander Krevchenko with 11 players left to solidify his spot in the final table. The 39-year-old psychologist and social worker won his seat through a satellite from Pechanga Resort and Casino for only $225.Interesting facts: Yang will be donating 10 percent of his winnings to three different charities -- the Make-A-Wish Foundation, Feed the Children, and the Ronald McDonald House. No, he's not the Yahoo! Jerry Yang.WSOP Cashes: None.Feldman's take: Yang will have to be hit with the deck if he's going to pull this off. Yang hasn't played great poker, but has survived this way due to his desire to win. He's been all-in behind a number of times and he'll have to avoid playing weak hands if he's going to have a chance.

[Don Giovanni 0]

So I didn't see the whole final table, but I did watch for 3 or 4 hours. Yeah, he was aggressive, but in the short amount of time I watched he:Tried to double-up the best player at the table w/ A9Raised 10X bb to open potsCalled all-ins w/ top pr/top kickerCalled all-ins w/ KQ, KJ, JT pre-flopIf I didn't know any better I'd say he was trying to lose and the deck just wouldn't let him.I applaud the guy for his humitarian efforts (donating 10% to charity), and his devotion to his family, but at a time when we're trying to prove poker is a game of skill WE DON'T need a guy like this carrying the torch for a year.

how would anyone else winning prove that poker is a game of skill?

[benhoug 0]

how would anyone else winning prove that poker is a game of skill?

You understand that some players, better players, leverage their skill to put opponents in unfavorable positions, others simply push and pray, or even worse yet, call and pray.From what I saw, Lam (or whatever the 2nd place guys' name is) and Alexander Krevchanko (sp) were far superior players, not to mention Lee Watkinson.Jerry just didn't know how to fold, and amazingly his hand held up every time.

[CBass1724 1]

I don't mind that he won because he isn't that bad of a player. He was very aggressive and put fear into his opponents. He did make some questionable calls that I could not (translate: WOULD NEVER) make but to each his own. I think he bluffed a majority of the night...he even said so at the end that he bluffed a lot, even with 2-7. He was by no means the best player at the table, but he got the cards when it counted. The only thing I disliked was his Bible humping. I cannot stand it when people talk about God doing this or that to help him win. Was God really against the other players today? God didn't shuffle the cards or set the deck up for him to win. He played a game and beat everybody else. Just quit talking about the Lord and talk about poker. I have nothing against religion but it was neither the time nor place for it. Maybe at the end, give a quick shout out to God, but the whole freaking night on every all in as well as mentioning it during every answer you gave to Norm? Come on man.

[irishguy 14]

I posted this in another thread but think it applys here as well.What Yang did with the whole Christain thing to me is no different than the superbowl champs, oscar winners, grammy winners, boxers etc thanking god for their victories. I don't think he played nearly as bad as ppl are saying but I said a long time ago no matter who won every poker forum would be littered with "he's a donk posts"I agree that his preflop raises especially early on were on the tarded side and that Jack ten call was awful but he didn't seem to make one move with out thinking it through right or wrong. The A9 call was very questionable but I said to some friends when Lee shoved that I'd ikely be calling him with AJ or maybe even A10 as I felt it would be close to even money against Lee's range. The KQ call against against the russian i think was bad but i forget chip counts and if he thought he was in a coin flip against a player who was better than him I don't think it is as bad as everyones making it out to be.The J8 hand was pretty standard and boggling that he got called by KJ. I also think he kept his composure well even when he began to lose races. When his QQ lost to AQ I believe his lead dwindled to 6 or 7 million and its not like he tilted like the old dude and started open pushing. He gathered himself together well and continued to apply pressure. Time will tell in the end what caliber of player he is and how his winng will bold for poker but then again I'm also in the minority of people with think Gold gets a raw deal.

[alf13 0]

I disagree. He made some irrational and terrible plays in the opening, but, I can see very few mistakes that he made after JT calling all in against AT. I think Moneymaker was worse. And, as his final table interview is going on..I'm glad he won.

All That preflop poker with 500bb's showed how bad he was....the 10 bb raises...the A9 call against Watkinson...the KQ call...the AK call against Hilm was questionable at best. IMO Moneymaker was head and shoulders above him. Do you remember the talent at the final table Moneymaker won his championship in? Do you remember that field coming down the stretch?I can accept Varkonyi being worse...not Moneymaker.

[TheDelta 0]

Now having slept a few hours I also think that he didn't play bad at all. I really like how he didn't give away anything for pretty much the whole FT, his slow motion poker might've taken long but after the first two bustouts you usually were able to see the insecurity in his opponents eyes once he turned his cards sideways, put a chip on them and announced "Raise". I also don't think his betsizes were wrong, he's the chipleader and the blinds were awfully small, he wanted to make the Pots big so to make the other players pay for playing back at him, and when he reraised their raises you could see that they had absolutely no idea where they were. That's his largest accomplishment IMHO, coming from a pretty Short Stack he took away the initiative from the other players and made them actually fear him, and that with a table full of players like Lam and Khan who are usually known to be pretty aggressive themselves, but all of them just let him run them over.Kravchenko came in a close second IMHO from what I saw from his play, he also let himself get bluffed out of too many pots but I think had he won that last coinflip he could've taken the whole thing down.Rahme was really interesting to watch, he seemed to change gears during the course of the FT what I quite liked, but in the end you couldn't help but getting the impression that he was getting tired and wanted it to end.And I think there can be no discussion that Lam played horribly in the first half of HU play, if you're willing to get yourself blinded off and bluffed out of every pot then the best hand you can come up with is 43s? Come on, he must've had tons of better hands before that, before going under 10 million and thereby getting pretty much an automatic call being an underdog to 99% of hands imaginable (supposed Yang wouldn't call with 32 or 42...) and his double up didn't even help him anymore than just keeping him alive.Yang made some questionable calls, but I think it was a calculated risk, it just send a clear message to the other players "Don't bluff me by pushing allin, I'm crazy enough to call you down with pretty much anything", making them even more reluctant to play back at his aggression. And he didn't suck out more than being sucked out at, so until we see the hole cards there's no reason to assume that he got awfully lucky compared to his opponent.

[TheDelta 0]

IMO Moneymaker was head and shoulders above him. Do you remember the talent at the final table Moneymaker won his championship in? Do you remember that field coming down the stretch?I can accept Varkonyi being worse...not Moneymaker.

Well I have no idea how Yang would've held against another final table (I think Gus Hansen and Scotty Nguyen would've given him one hell of a ride there), but considering his competition here, he played good IMHO.

[seemorenuts 0]

I agree with TheDelta on his perception. Yang's play is more planned than you would at first surmise, it is imperative to throw off your competition, especially if they are skilled. Oversized raises, taking your time, praising the Lord, all three were functional behaviors--exceptionally effective. He took a page from Gold's playbook, and although I have seen neither final tables yet; I am also in the minority camp, as I respect Gold for what he did, albeit with surprise that he wasn't just penalized into obscurity.I just got an email from a buddy (confirmed he wore a loud pink shirt, two rows directly behind Tuan, waving a Canadian flag) whose buddy is buddies with Tuan; they all flew down to LV to rail him when he qualified for the FT.My buddy said Tuan, "HONESTLY didn't catch ANY cards ALL FT long 'except the two big hands' to keep him alive."In light of this, Tuan played a tremendous FT, only to be superseded by Yang if Jerry's cards turn out to be even worse.Then we will all confirm that:Tuan Lam = Class Act, fantastic playerandJerry Yang = Class Act, fantastic playerWow, I now know someone remotely that's won more than I ever will, for a few years... awesome... I smell stakeaments!

Edited July 18, 2007 by seemorenuts

[Andr4w 0]

So I didn't see the whole final table, but I did watch for 3 or 4 hours. Yeah, he was aggressive, but in the short amount of time I watched he:Tried to double-up the best player at the table w/ A9Raised 10X bb to open potsCalled all-ins w/ top pr/top kickerCalled all-ins w/ KQ, KJ, JT pre-flopIf I didn't know any better I'd say he was trying to lose and the deck just wouldn't let him.I applaud the guy for his humitarian efforts (donating 10% to charity), and his devotion to his family, but at a time when we're trying to prove poker is a game of skill WE DON'T need a guy like this carrying the torch for a year.

I think your being really unfair to the guy, sure he played a little unorthodox with his bet sizes etc but we don't all have to play by the book do we? with the 10x bb raises he may not have wanted a caller, so what? Also if the boot was on the other foot regarding the A9 etc and say Lee Watkinson had made the call with that hand you can be sure everyone here would be saying good call, sick call blah blah. I said it in my earlier posts, any criticism should go to the other players who couldn't adapt to his style and they should have been able to, because he would have paid them off eventually. So i say GG and well played Jerry u deserve it for being the only player to go out there and try and win the thing from the start.

[Painter567 0]

ill give u 100 to 1 at 10 bux

Man.... Sandwedge, hope you took this bet!

[Painter567 0]

51

[seemorenuts 0]

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/ranking/125I am just floored when I look at this list, even with the knowledge of recent huge prizes, and it's merely the WSOP list, not the all time money list... 8th or 2nd in one bound, wow... my head would explode if that happened to me.I feel lucky to know people who know Tuan, if for no other reason than to be inspired to strive towards the same goals.It puts bragging about one's own accomplishments into another set of standards--no more, "yeah, I just pulled down $200K..."However remote that possibility is, I have to share with you all that it just floors me... and that's what brings the fishies in!

[seemorenuts 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_KravchenkoReproduced below because the joke won't last long... (I didn't post it.)Alex Kravchenko (Russian: Александр Кравченко, born April 21, 1971 in Arkhangelsk, USSR) is a professional poker player based in Moscow, Russia. He started playing poker in 1997.[1] In the 2007 World Series of Poker he cashed 6 times including the reaching the final table at the Main Event and the $1,500 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo event where he won a WSOP bracelet.As of 2007, his live tournament winnings exceed $2,416,000.[2] He passed Kirill Gerasimov to became the all-time leading money winner among Russian players at the 2007 World Series of Poker.[3] He is the first Russian Citizen to win a WSOP bracelet.[4]During one particular play at the World Series, Kravchenko's manager angrily approached him at the table, calling him a donkey in Russian. Clearly agitated, Kravchenko lifted his manager by the throat and threw him into the shocked crowd. He then pointed at eventual winner Jerry Yang and said, "I raise for me...FOR ME!"Lol, how long will that paragraph last? I'll have to confirm with my buddy (see the pink shirt in the pic below) but I won't hold my breath on that story. Anyone here see anything strange on the feeds--Edit: which movie is that from again?? I'm on dial up, so I missed all the pacing and action ...http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/gallery.ph...amp;ref_id=8078

[zimmer4141 0]

Did anyone else think that Tuan played just a horrible, horrible final table?

Not really. I think he almost maximized his equity, because if you look at it, other than the A5 hand against Rahme's QQ, Tuan basically folded his way to 2nd place. Ship the free $4 million.

[socalpoker_j 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_KravchenkoReproduced below because the joke won't last long... (I didn't post it.)Alex Kravchenko (Russian: Александр Кравченко, born April 21, 1971 in Arkhangelsk, USSR) is a professional poker player based in Moscow, Russia. He started playing poker in 1997.[1] In the 2007 World Series of Poker he cashed 6 times including the reaching the final table at the Main Event and the $1,500 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo event where he won a WSOP bracelet.As of 2007, his live tournament winnings exceed $2,416,000.[2] He passed Kirill Gerasimov to became the all-time leading money winner among Russian players at the 2007 World Series of Poker.[3] He is the first Russian Citizen to win a WSOP bracelet.[4]During one particular play at the World Series, Kravchenko's manager angrily approached him at the table, calling him a donkey in Russian. Clearly agitated, Kravchenko lifted his manager by the throat and threw him into the shocked crowd. He then pointed at eventual winner Jerry Yang and said, "I raise for me...FOR ME!"Lol, how long will that paragraph last? I'll have to confirm with my buddy (see the pink shirt in the pic below) but I won't hold my breath on that story. Anyone here see anything strange on the feeds--Edit: which movie is that from again?? I'm on dial up, so I missed all the pacing and action ...http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/gallery.ph...amp;ref_id=8078

It's from Rocky IV. Drago yo.

[James D 0]

So, Full Tilt finally have a world champion.Daniel, you went to the wrong site! You have cursed them!(sw)

[Flushgarden 0]

All of you people bashing Jerry Yang are not being very thoughtful. Jery Yang didn't get unreasonablly lucky, in fact he had quite a bit of bad luck. He lost when he had his opponent all in with the worst hand more than once. Jerry really didn't make any plays that are indefensable. You play differently with a huge chip lead than you do otherwise. Jerry played his big stack well and if would have been over even sooner if he hadn't gotten unlucky. I honestly admire the way he played and the way he psyched out his opponents.Jerry Yang outplayed everybody at the final table and he deserved to win. I wish him the best of luck in the future.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

All of you people bashing Jerry Yang are not being very thoughtful. Jery Yang didn't get unreasonablly lucky, in fact he had quite a bit of bad luck. He lost when he had his opponent all in with the worst hand more than once. Jerry really didn't make any plays that are indefensable. You play differently with a huge chip lead than you do otherwise. Jerry played his big stack well and if would have been over even sooner if he hadn't gotten unlucky. I honestly admire the way he played and the way he psyched out his opponents.Jerry Yang outplayed everybody at the final table and he deserved to win. I wish him the best of luck in the future.

Yeah, he outplayed everyone but the Russian. He deserved to win, that said the play at the final table was pretty disappointing.