Rams Reply

[nutzbuster 7]

Isn't that day that the cast from Boy meets Boy is having their 3 year reunion show?Probably a coincidence

Why does this image come to mind???

[Volume26 0]

Yes we know YOU are not talking about golf, however Marc and Ram have made it clear that they were. That is the point, like I say.

Hahahahaha either you're very stupid or incredibly naive. My god you really do not think that this was golf gambling. Why do you think they were negotiating?? Ram himself goes into great detail. Goodwin talks about it in his blog. Please get real. If this wasn't golf gambling nothing is. Not even Ram or Goowin would claim it wasn't.Really I can't believe I even have to argue this.

Again you have failed to answer my point about handicaps, I can assume that you have no idea how factually erroneous your statement on handicaps was then?

What are you talking about? Are you unable to read? I said there was no such thing as an honest handicap and that it's something that's open for debate. IN GOLF GAMBLING...obviously

[Balloon guy 158]

Why does this image come to mind???

Uhhh Cause it wasn't that far away to begin with?

[Balloon guy 158]

And now it gets interesting

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

here it is the DN response....... I'm looking forward too it to much..........Yo Daniel im unbanned, it was a long year

[Loismustdie 0]

Yikes...interesting find. But a bet is a bet, like those sucker bar bets "I'll bet i can drink this without using my hands" kinda bets, crap like that. Once you say "YOU'RE ON", then baby...you're on.I will say that this whole thing does seem to have a bit of slime on it, but....and I'll say it again...The lessons learned here seem obvious.1. Make sure you do your homework before accepting a wager from Phil Ivey (or anyone for that matter).2. If you agree to the wager, then smell a rat ...BUT KEEP PLAYING, then you only have yourself to blame.Pay the man Ram.

No. If the bet is based on a lie- IE, it's fixed, you don't pay. Or, you kill the guy who did the fixing. I think in this situation we have a degenerate who is so used to runningover everyone he thinks he should be able to no matter how he did it. I used to read up about hustlers, and some of the tricks they used to try and get one up on there opponent. The one thing you never do is straight out lie about your abilities. You negotiate strokes, etc., but you do that generally based of how good you are, and not how good you pretend to be. This was nothing but a hustle, plain and simple. So, he could pay him- but then he would have to kill him, gangster style.

[Loismustdie 0]

Why does this image come to mind???

That's hilarious. Good work.

[MikeJohnson724 0]

Here comes daniel woot woot! haha. The suspense is killing me.

[Balloon guy 158]

And now it gets interesting

Any second now

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

no thank yous? :(Hes been resaponding for 20 minutes, should be solidbtw no mater what Iveys rep is taking a big hit, only to the sickos like us though

[Oziumrules 0]

no thank yous?

Thank You Foxwoods.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Tbh, after reading all this, I still stick by what I said earlier. Phil Ivey's reputation should be ruined because, that's what he deserves. Ram should pay up and coniser it an expensive life lesson. Not much else to add. I'm interested to see if Daniel defends Ivey even though he blatantly lied and took advantage of a friend. I have a feeling DN will word it in such a way it makes what Ivey did seem ok, when it rly isn't.. Also, Daniel, will you bet with Ivey on the golf course again? In your opinion do you think other pros will gamble with him on the golf course again? And do you think his reputation will be permanently damaged and whether or not it deserves to be. The floor is yours...

[Suited_Up 2]

Thank You Foxwoods.

Yeah, thanks for nothin!

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

that is soooooooooooo bull ****

[logic411 0]

I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY

This guy is HILARIOUS!!

[DanielNegreanu 141]

This just gets crazier and crazier. Not in any of the rounds did Phil break 90! According to Phil, those two played ridiculously bad. Ram was shooting in the range of 110. The real reason they lost as much as they did wasn't so much because Phil played great, but because they played terribly. Phil told me he made every putt for two days. When his putter gets hot, it's the scariest thing you've ever seen. As for the other two, again, according to Phil, they didn't make a meaningful put the entire match. As for Ivey getting better, no kidding! The fact that he practices with his coach is no big secret at all and not unethical in any way. The best argument I heard on this subject was this: Let's say Ivey played for two days and just couldn't put it together and played terrible. That's a very real possibility as he runs hot and cold. In the end, he loses a million and pays it. Then, later Ram and Marc find out that Phil is much improved and that despite the fact that they won, the handicaps weren't fair: would they give him his money back? Seriously, if they "found out" later that he played Erick even would they have still said that the match is void? I doubt it. The handicaps being off doesn't void a match for this reason. If Ivey had lost he'd be forced to pay, so the same must hold true for Ram. As for the sum of money that Phil lost to Marc and Ram, that number is approximately $230,000. To call Ivey a cheater in this case is completely uncalled for and flat out wrong. Had he had a rocket launcher on the end of his club, or cheated by giving himself a better lie when no one was looking, that's cheating. The thing is, I am 100% certain that if the shoe was on the other foot, Ivey would have paid the money without consideration. If Ram and/or Marc played great and beat him up, he wouldn't of been happy, but not for even one second would he consider not paying. Not for a second.

[FoxwoodsPro 0]

meh, I expected more j/s

[Balloon guy 158]

Had he had a rocket launcher on the end of his club,

Oz, can you hook me up with one of these?

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Tbh, after reading all this, I still stick by what I said earlier. Phil Ivey's reputation should be ruined because, that's what he deserves. Ram should pay up and coniser it an expensive life lesson. Not much else to add. I'm interested to see if Daniel defends Ivey even though he blatantly lied and took advantage of a friend. I have a feeling DN will word it in such a way it makes what Ivey did seem ok, when it rly isn't.. Also, Daniel, will you bet with Ivey on the golf course again? In your opinion do you think other pros will gamble with him on the golf course again? And do you think his reputation will be permanently damaged and whether or not it deserves to be. The floor is yours...

Ivey will have no problem getting matches at all as there isn't anyone here in the U.S. that has heard about this that thinks Ivey did anything wrong at all. I gamble with Ivey and he always kicks my butt. I'll play him again, but only with a fair spot. I made a deal with him a long time ago that we'd play even for the next year. He got a lot better and I got worse. He then VOLUNTARILY decided to give me a STROKE A HOLE. That's a significant adjustment if there ever was one. You assume Ivey lied because Ram said so. I believe that Ram is lying or isn't remembering exactly what happened. Ivey did NOT lie!!!! Ivey told them the absolute truth, "The last time I played Erick he gave me 5 a side. I beat him on the front so we adjusted down to 3 on the back."

[The Czar 0]

This is so much he said, she said, I don't care anymore.

[Jam-Fly 8]

This just gets crazier and crazier. Not in any of the rounds did Phil break 90! According to Phil, those two played ridiculously bad. Ram was shooting in the range of 110. The real reason they lost as much as they did wasn't so much because Phil played great, but because they played terribly. Phil told me he made every putt for two days. When his putter gets hot, it's the scariest thing you've ever seen. As for the other two, again, according to Phil, they didn't make a meaningful put the entire match. As for Ivey getting better, no kidding! The fact that he practices with his coach is no big secret at all and not unethical in any way. The best argument I heard on this subject was this: Let's say Ivey played for two days and just couldn't put it together and played terrible. That's a very real possibility as he runs hot and cold. In the end, he loses a million and pays it. Then, later Ram and Marc find out that Phil is much improved and that despite the fact that they won, the handicaps weren't fair: would they give him his money back? Seriously, if they "found out" later that he played Erick even would they have still said that the match is void? I doubt it. The handicaps being off doesn't void a match for this reason. If Ivey had lost he'd be forced to pay, so the same must hold true for Ram. As for the sum of money that Phil lost to Marc and Ram, that number is approximately $230,000. To call Ivey a cheater in this case is completely uncalled for and flat out wrong. Had he had a rocket launcher on the end of his club, or cheated by giving himself a better lie when no one was looking, that's cheating. The thing is, I am 100% certain that if the shoe was on the other foot, Ivey would have paid the money without consideration. If Ram and/or Marc played great and beat him up, he wouldn't of been happy, but not for even one second would he consider not paying. Not for a second.

So are you flat out saying that Ram lied in his blog?But you haven't addressed the simple point that Phil lied to Ram. Ram said he hadn't played since a certain date and Phil said that he hadn't played since that date either, even though, not only was he playing, but he was getting coached and improving his play dramatically. That was addressed in most recent postI agree that Ram should man up and pay, but can you really say that Ivey is 100% truthful and honest and is not a hustler in this scenario?

[brabz 0]

Completely off topic, but the link to Jon Stewart's segment isn't there anymore. All of Comedy Central's stuff has been removed from YouTube since that law suit.At least there's reasonable discourse and discussion on the subject though. Always a plus.

[Rodney21a 1]

I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY

[fiezk 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DdJu9fwfwYou can see what John Juanda makes of it on this vid, you'll also see Ivey is more than a little sheepish and defensive at the criticism

Notice the other player's reactions when Ivey says he's always honest about what he shoots? "Yeaaahh, right..". not "Let's up the stakes and play for a couple of more days". Then AFTER the match (when they've had ample opportunity to quit) decide not to pay. This way they where free-rolling, no matter how bad the deal was for them. Ivey has been winning lately -- the other people who have lost have probably been as disgusted as Ram, but have payed up nonetheless. DN lost a ton of money due to similar situations - "everyone I played with had the round of their life". Not paying was (according to Daniel, and I've never seen anything written anywhere else) never even considered. Look, I'm not saying that (based solely on Ram's version) what Ivey did was a nice thing. Not at all. It looks like he used his credibility coming from their, previous, friendship to get a great deal. But it doesn't change the fact that they owe him the money. Bettors beware, caveat emptor.

[Balloon guy 158]

Point I made at the Hendon Mob's site ( cool site, much cooler people than here btw) was this:Marc said they shot -1 after 8 holes on the back, and still lost by 14 strokes. Then the next day Phil really played much better, making them think they got hustled.Can some one do the math, how good do you have to play to beat a team who shoots -1 for 8 holes, and then how much better would you have to play the next day for that to be noticeable?you'd have to shoot like a 62 on day two to improve wouldn't you?Who keeps betting against someone that shoots that good without adjusting?Then Ram says that he got approached by all these people, Americans especially that told him about how much Phil's been getting coached etc. So Phil never kept it a secret, and one phone call to most of the people in the poker community would have given them this info, yet they never found out for 3 days? I am nobody and I knew Phil Ivey was getting coached.Okay I'm not nobody..but you get the point