Rams Reply

[Jam-Fly 8]

To be honest with you I feel no sympathy for them, especially after they are not only painting the picture that Ivey cheated, that in fact, they are claiming that they don't have to pay because Ivey, in fact, cheated. Ivey didn't cheat, he beat them fair and square. Had he lost, he would have paid. Even if Ivey made a bad match, once he agreed to it, he would be a man of his word and pay. What Ram and Marc are doing are setting a terrible precident here by agreeing to gamble and then only after losing, decide that the match wasn't fair so they don't feel they should pay. Imagine trying that at the poker table, "Hey Ivey, you any good at Omaha H/L?" "I'm ok, it's not be best game but I'd play it." So we play, and I find out that he's been getting better and even took lessons from Mike Matusow. So he beats me for a million, but sweet! I don't have to pay! Woohoo! If they don't pay, they are welchers, no question about it. He's flat out calling Ivey a cheater, when there was no cheating going on. If anyone wouldn't be able to get into any high stakes golf matches, it's not Ivey that will have that problem. Would you feel comfortable playing against those two, knowing that if you play better than they thought you would, that they may just decide, "Hmm... well, you made too many putts and hit too many greens. Sorry, not paying."

lol!But do you genuinely believe that Ivey was 100% honest with Ram? As a friend of Rams, was Ivey not out of line and being a low life about it?

[Jam-Fly 8]

Daniel, i really dont see why you are getting involved in this situation whatsoever. This whole debacle is tarnishing the reputations of the players who actually played already, i dont see why you would actually want to be dragged into it when its going to tarnish yours. Im not sure if Phil dragged you into it, or you forced yourself in but IMO your opinions arent exactly what this situation needs right now. Your blog has single handedly turned this private heated debate into a huge topic of discussion in every single heavy populated poker forum on the net. I know you're going to bounce back with Marc Goodwins blog post, but we all know how many more people have access to your blog and views, and most importantly, when those views are biased towards your friend, it isnt exactly fair to all sides involved. Let it pass, let Ram, Marc, Phil, his coach and the arbitrators sort this whole shambles out in Vegas this week and move on.

Hey, what county you from? Were you at the Irish Open?

[Isaacs 0]

Hey, what county you from? Were you at the Irish Open?

Louth. Yeah i played the Open, didnt last too long though.

[milbucksfans 0]

Focus people. Let's get the attention back where it belongs here.Now who's got TheGuvnor's flight number?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Like I say, despite ignoring what I refered to in your previous post about handicaps, and I assume as you ignored the question I was right, the term for betting Golf Gambling, whatever that is (I take it you read Blair Rodman's post on LVA to come up with the term?) is not what these guys had historically played.Ivey has cheated

What rule did he break?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Daniel why dont you do everyone a favour and let phil speak for himself, No-one believes you because the information is second hand. Ram has said he will answer Phils questions on THM website. This looks bad for phil and your making yourself look bad by getting involved, if Phil won't answer himself then thats his own fault.

I've read Ram's post......and he sounds at best like someone trying to welch on a bet to me.

[Rodney21a 1]

What rule did he break?

PlayI Establish a Golf Handicap?From Brent Kelley,Your Guide to Golf.FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!Establishing a USGA Handicap Index is not difficult. You simply need to be a member of a golf club that uses the USGA Handicapping System, and begin posting your scores.Member of a golf club? Isn't that expensive?We're not talking about that kind of club, we're talking about the kind that is comprised of members - as in association or group. At least 10 members, to be exact. Ten members and a handicapping committee is all that's required of a club for it to become part of the USGA Handicapping System.Of course, many golf clubs - meaning country clubs, private clubs or otherwise - have their own handicapping committees. But many public and even municipal courses will be able to help you establish your handicap. Next time you're at one, ask if they provide handicapping services.Sponsored LinksHandicap for BeginnersGet a golf handicap as easy as 123 + everything to improve your gamewww.myscorecard.comUSGA Handicap CardOffical USGA Card, Online Stat Tracking. Local Events & More.www.golfhound.comGolf Score Recorder (PC)Calculate handicaps the American way. Based on USGA guidelines.www.golfscorerecorder.comThey will likely tell you that the Men's Golf Association, or Ladies Golf Association, or whatever groups are based at the course, do. Then, it's just a matter of joining that club.Once you're in a club that is part of the system, you simply turn in your scores after each round to the handicap committee. This may be done manually - handing over your scorecard to someone. Or electronically - signing on to a computer in the pro shop or 19th hole, entering your ID number and password, and entering your score.And more and more clubs are allowing their members to enter their scores remotely, at home or from any other computer, through use of the GHIN system.A handicap committee should figure, issue and post handicaps about once a month. Once you have five scores turned in, you'll get your handicap index. Thereafter, your handicap index will always be based on the lowest 10 of your last 20 rounds.Back to Golf Handicap FAQ homepageRules of Golf - Rule 6: The PlayerFrom USGAThe Official Rules of Golf appear on the About.com Golf site courtesy of the USGA, are used with permission, and may not be reprinted without the permission of the USGA.6-1. RulesThe player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules. During a stipulated round, for any breach of a Rule by his caddie, the player incurs the applicable penalty.6-2. Handicap• a. Match PlayBefore starting a match in a handicap competition, the players should determine from one another their respective handicaps. If a player begins a match having declared a handicap higher than that to which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes given or received, he is disqualified; otherwise, the player must play off the declared handicap.From USGAThe Official Rules of Golf appear on the About.com Golf site courtesy of the USGA, are used with permission, and may not be reprinted without the permission of the USGA.2-1. GeneralA match consists of one side playing against another over a stipulated round unless otherwise decreed by the Committee.In match play the game is played by holes.Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, a hole is won by the side that holes its ball in the fewer strokes. In a handicap match the lower net score wins the hole.The state of the match is expressed by the terms: so many "holes up" or "all square," and so many "to play."A side is "dormie" when it is as many holes up as there are holes remaining to be played.I guess he broke the rule of preying on a sucker with an obvious gambling addiction. Ram is one of the biggest gambling losers in Europe. Known Fact. Especially if his i betting 400k on the Govnor.

[Andr4w 0]

I've read Ram's post......and he sounds at best like someone trying to welch on a bet to me.

Nah at best Ivey's a cheat, but more likely a cheating scumbag.

[DoinSublime 0]

I've read Ram's post......and he sounds at best like someone trying to welch on a bet to me.

I think his wife basically calling him out sums it up best."Why did you keep playing honey?"<while thinking> what a dumbarse my husband is

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Nah at best Ivey's a cheat, but more likely a cheating scumbag.

What rule did Ivey break?

[Andr4w 0]

What rule did Ivey break?

The rule about not f-u-c-k-ing your mates over by lying.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

What rule did Ivey break?

He shot in the 90's and won too much money. He made too many putts. He got a golf coach and improved his game. Oh wait, nevermind, he didn't break any rules.

[AAsnake88 0]

He shot in the 90's and won too much money. He made too many putts. He got a golf coach and improved his game. Oh wait, nevermind, he didn't break any rules.

Your 2 hours are up.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

The rule about not f-u-c-k-ing your mates over by lying.

I'll take that as "none"Thank you for playing.

[Andr4w 0]

I'll take that as "none"Thank you for playing.

No don't tyvm. Its one of those rules thats so fundamental for 99.9% of the population it goes as unspoken, but clealy not in Ivey's case.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

The rule about not f-u-c-k-ing your mates over by lying.

Seriously, are people really this naive?

[Andr4w 0]

Seriously, are people really this naive?

So you have been f-u-c-k-e-d over by a friend then? If not are you naive?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

So you have been f-u-c-k-e-d over by a friend then? If not are you naive?

I do not consider what Ivey did, even if you ONLY take Ram's description of events, wrong in any way.

[Isaacs 0]

There definitely seems to be a huge contrast of cultural gambling beliefs in the debate which is very interesting. In the States hustling seems to be a term for a succesful angle shoot with every edge exploited by any means necessary. In Europe the term 'hustling' pretty much translates as cheating, lying and deceit. To the Americans the Euros stance may seem naive, to the Euros the Americans seem vicious and the actions of a scumbag. Strange really, but all i know is that in my area 'the hustler' would be leaving the golf course with his kneecaps in his pocket (for what its worth).

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

There definitely seems to be a huge contrast of cultural gambling beliefs in the debate which is very interesting. In the States hustling seems to be a term for a succesful angle shoot with every edge exploited by any means necessary. In Europe the term 'hustling' pretty much translates as cheating, lying and deceit. To the Americans the Euros stance may seem naive, to the Euros the Americans seem vicious and the actions of a scumbag. Strange really, but all i know is that in my area 'the hustler' would be leaving the golf course with his kneecaps in his pocket (for what its worth).

...and in my neighborhood failure to pay a fair gambling wager would result in far worse......of course I live in Detroit, so looking at someone in the wrong manner in my neighborhood could result in far worse.

[The Czar 0]

Broad brush. Real broad brush.

[Andr4w 0]

I do not consider what Ivey did, even if you ONLY take Ram's description of events, wrong in any way.

Fine, then we'll classify you in the scumbag group with Ivey.The fundamental difference here is that it seems acceptable in the US to 'hustle' or 'cheat' to win and it seems like a normal part of life over there. In the Uk in golf this is basically the most unacceptable form of cheating there is, you would quickly get banned from all your local golf clubs for this sort of behaviour, and thats before you even take the sum of money into consideration and the fact it was by a 'friend'.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Fine, then we'll classify you in the scumbag group with Ivey.The fundamental difference here is that it seems acceptable in the US to 'hustle' or 'cheat' to win and it seems like a normal part of life over there. In the Uk in golf this is basically the most unacceptable form of cheating there is, you would quickly get banned from all your local golf clubs for this sort of behaviour, and thats before you even take the sum of money into consideration and the fact it was by a 'friend'.

LOLYeah, we dirty Americans invented sandbagging on the golf course. Pretty much ruined the game....are you one of those guys who drops cash on the Three Card Monte games in the streets?...probably still falling for the old "I've got your nose" trick.

[Andr4w 0]

LOLYeah, we dirty Americans invented sandbagging on the golf course. Pretty much ruined the game....are you one of those guys who drops cash on the Three Card Monte games in the streets?...probably still falling for the old "I've got your nose" trick.

Probably, but I don't even know what you are talking about LOL

[Isaacs 0]

...and in my neighborhood failure to pay a fair gambling wager would result in far worse......of course I live in Detroit, so looking at someone in the wrong manner in my neighborhood could result in far worse.

Interesting question arises. Who comes off worst? The Hustler or the hustled victim who refuses to pay?I think we may find that the answers will strongly differ from one side of the atlantic to the other. (maybe not though?)