FoxwoodsPro 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 So are you flat out saying that Ram lied in his blog?But you haven't addressed the simple point that Phil lied to Ram. Ram said he hadn't played since a certain date and Phil said that he hadn't played since that date either, even though, not only was he playing, but he was getting coached and improving his play dramatically. That was addressed in most recent postI agree that Ram should man up and pay, but can you really say that Ivey is 100% truthful and honest and is not a hustler in this scenario?his post did not confirm Ivey hadn't played in x months as was stated in Rams blog, which was a lie obv. I think you have a valid point Link to post Share on other sites
James D 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Ok, so what actually happens if they don't pay? Seriously.Do they get beaten up? Does it go to Court? It gets forgotten? What happens?I was always under the impression that, legally, nothing can be done if someone doesn't pay a losing bet. Even if it's an official bookmaker. I think they should pay, and put it all down to experience, but what if they don't. Link to post Share on other sites
farmist 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Ok, so what actually happens if they don't pay? Seriously.Do they get beaten up? Does it go to Court? It gets forgotten? What happens?I was always under the impression that, legally, nothing can be done if someone doesn't pay a losing bet. Even if it's an official bookmaker. I think they should pay, and put it all down to experience, but what if they don't.They sic Mike Matusow on them. He talks and talks until they pay up...shouldn't take too long. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 sic the 'i got scammed' thread people on him. Look what they've done for a 100, scary to think what they'd do for this. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 They sic Mike Matusow on them. He talks and talks until they pay up...shouldn't take too long.Maybe Phil can hire TheGuvnur. He's 88-0 you know...hits like a sledgehammer...Should only take him about 2 minutes Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 So are you flat out saying that Ram lied in his blog?But you haven't addressed the simple point that Phil lied to Ram. Ram said he hadn't played since a certain date and Phil said that he hadn't played since that date either, even though, not only was he playing, but he was getting coached and improving his play dramatically. That was addressed in most recent postI agree that Ram should man up and pay, but can you really say that Ivey is 100% truthful and honest and is not a hustler in this scenario? Not necessarily. That might be the way he remembered things. What I am saying is that Marc and Ram claimed to have beated Ivey for a total of $40,000 prior to Australia. Ivey and his coach claim the number is $230,000. I would bet a large sum of money that Phil's coach is the one that is right about this. He tracks Phil's results and isn't a "big time" gambler that would forget about large sums of money. In playing with Phil in the past I used to track our money totals throughout the round. Anytime I made an innocent error, his coach pointed it out as he was also tracking the running sum. He always does that, and he knows the figure. Link to post Share on other sites
farmist 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Maybe Phil can hire TheGuvnur. He's 88-0 you know...hits like a sledgehammer...Should only take him about 2 minutesLol, and 24 STONES AND 20 GOLD NECKLACES. I WILL POUND ALL THOSE PUNKS.Yeah, that guy is frickin classic Link to post Share on other sites
doudave 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 You assume Ivey lied because Ram said so. I believe that Ram is lying or isn't remembering exactly what happened. Ivey did NOT lie!!!! Ivey told them the absolute truth, "The last time I played Erick he gave me 5 a side. I beat him on the front so we adjusted down to 3 on the back." Wow, Now I am a big fan of yours Daniel, but I think its about time you let Ivey handle his own battle. To call Ram a lier when you were not there is not fair to him. Non of us can be sure of what exactly happened on the course so we have to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. Link to post Share on other sites
cwik 0 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 You assume Ivey lied because Ram said so. I believe that Ram is lying or isn't remembering exactly what happened. Ivey did NOT lie!!!! Ivey told them the absolute truth, "The last time I played Erick he gave me 5 a side. I beat him on the front so we adjusted down to 3 on the back." Wow, Now I am a big fan of yours Daniel, but I think its about time you let Ivey handle his own battle. To call Ram a lier when you were not there is not fair to him. Non of us can be sure of what exactly happened on the course so we have to give everybody the benefit of the doubt.I'm on Ivey's side on this one, however I do agree with this post. Link to post Share on other sites
Andr4w 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Daniel why dont you do everyone a favour and let phil speak for himself, No-one believes you because the information is second hand. Ram has said he will answer Phils questions on THM website. This looks bad for phil and your making yourself look bad by getting involved, if Phil won't answer himself then thats his own fault. Link to post Share on other sites
Rodney21a 1 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 You assume Ivey lied because Ram said so. I believe that Ram is lying or isn't remembering exactly what happened. Ivey did NOT lie!!!! Ivey told them the absolute truth, "The last time I played Erick he gave me 5 a side. I beat him on the front so we adjusted down to 3 on the back." Wow, Now I am a big fan of yours Daniel, but I think its about time you let Ivey handle his own battle. To call Ram a lier when you were not there is not fair to him. Non of us can be sure of what exactly happened on the course so we have to give everybody the benefit of the doubt.Can we up the Prop Bet here Daniel?How about this. DOUBLE or NOTHING on a boxing match between the two. Cesar's Palace. PPV.We can make millions. I think It would end up looking like this.Wait a minute. It ALREADY looks like that.Bunch of BITCHES.Bye the Way. I put down 400k on Michelle Rodriguez Vs Phil Vs Ram...Vs the Govnar... Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I think this whole thing is pretty stupid. I don't understand how anybody can take Ram's side here when he played the whole thing out. That is beyond dumb to me...its like the guy who sits at $100max loses then moves to $200 loses and tells everyone he knows that online poker is rigged. If they do end up hiring an arbitrator I assume the ruling will go something like this "so you felt you were being cheated but continued to play...oh and you continued to raise the stakes? Pay Mr. Ivey everything you owe and write I will use common sense from now on a thousand times." Link to post Share on other sites
Ivan Drago 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAYI ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE.YOU WILL LOSE. Link to post Share on other sites
The Czar 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I wish everyone paid this close attention to things that actually matter instead of trying to take sides on which millionaire owes the other millionaire money. Seriously, I don't know these two guys, so how do I take sides without actually knowing what happened. There's two stories out there, so you have to pick one? I'd rather expend my energy on sh*t that matters. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/19/...main/index.html Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Daniel why dont you do everyone a favour and let phil speak for himself, No-one believes you because the information is second hand. Ram has said he will answer Phils questions on THM website. This looks bad for phil and your making yourself look bad by getting involved, if Phil won't answer himself then thats his own fault. Phil isn't going to speak publicly about this. He wants his money. If for some reason they decide to welch on paying, I imagine Phil may decide to tell his side of the story personally. Link to post Share on other sites
Andr4w 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE.YOU WILL LOSE.Dont be so surehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_mcleanThere not much decent footage as most was in the 70's and 80's but here's one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUcFx-PEiTg...ted&search=After cleaning up on the UK scene for years he apparently got invited by the NY mafia to take on their top boy and he cleaned him up in a minute or so! Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Phil isn't going to speak publicly about this. He wants his money. If for some reason they decide to welch on paying, I imagine Phil may decide to tell his side of the story personally.I smell a book deal:The Golfer, The Mobster, and the Suicide King?orMy Life by Phil Ivey? Link to post Share on other sites
rgold79 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Looking back over past topics I've noticed that I seem toi spend a lot more time responding to negative posts. In doing that, you end up giving the OP what they want. Not anymore. I'm not going to bother with those kinds of posts at all anymore.What happened to this?I think on this issue the point of changing people's minds has passed. Personally the issues of a wager between people I have never met does not concern me in the least. It's good that you stick up for your friends but engaging in this debate with wholly uninterested parties is a worthless endeavor. Link to post Share on other sites
Rodney21a 1 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I wish everyone paid this close attention to things that actually matter instead of trying to take sides on which millionaire owes the other millionaire money. Seriously, I don't know these two guys, so how do I take sides without actually knowing what happened. There's two stories out there, so you have to pick one? I'd rather expend my energy on sh*t that matters. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/19/...main/index.html So good sir. Since your from Chicago I'm assuming you DIDN'T vote for George Bush in 2000 or 2004. Bottom line man. We really can't do much about this. He is President. He is Comander n Chief. He can do what he wants with the Army and foriegn Policy. I remember the 2000 election year people. I can't say how many time I heard. "Im Choosing the lesser of two EVIL's" when they were considering their vote. Well, I think we know now what EVIL truly is.Totalitarianism is a term employed by some political scientists, especially those in the field of comparative politics, to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.The most influential scholars of totalitarianism, such as Karl Popper, Hannah Arendt, Carl Friedrich, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Juan Linz have each described totalitarianism in a slightly different way. Common to all definitions is the attempt to mobilize entire populations in support of the official state ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, entailing repression or state control of business, labor unions, churches or political parties. Totalitarian regimes maintain themselves in political power by means of secret police, propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror tactics.Critics of the concept say that the term lacks explanatory power. They argue that governments which may be classified as totalitarian often lack characteristics said to be associated with the term. They may not be as monolithic as they appear from the outside, if they incorporate several groups, such as the army, political leaders, industrialists, which compete for power and influence. In this sense, these regimes may exhibit pluralism through the involvement of several groups in the political process.[1]So good sir,I put to YOU. George Bush is the President and a REPUBLICAN. George Bush and HIS party has past the legislation and ENFORCED the "LAWS". Republican=Totalitarianism. Since we have a TWO party SYSTEM then by logic Democrat=FREEDOM.My logic is My logic.Were stuck with the situation. EMPIRES rise empires FALL. Our American Empire is FALLING. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 This is what handicaps are for to cheat with! If Ram doesn't like what happened he needs to just pay up and then never play with Phil again. Unfortunatly it is that simple!Also what ever happened to the rumored bet with Ivey against PGA Tour player Cory Pavin? Link to post Share on other sites
rgold79 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Dont be so surehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_mcleanThere not much decent footage as most was in the 70's and 80's but here's one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUcFx-PEiTg...ted&search=After cleaning up on the UK scene for years he apparently got invited by the NY mafia to take on their top boy and he cleaned him up in a minute or so!Are you kidding? Everything Drago hits, he destroys! Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Daniel why dont you do everyone a favour and let phil speak for himself, No-one believes you because the information is second hand. Ram has said he will answer Phils questions on THM website. This looks bad for phil and your making yourself look bad by getting involved, if Phil won't answer himself then thats his own fault. To be honest with you I feel no sympathy for them, especially after they are not only painting the picture that Ivey cheated, that in fact, they are claiming that they don't have to pay because Ivey, in fact, cheated. Ivey didn't cheat, he beat them fair and square. Had he lost, he would have paid. Even if Ivey made a bad match, once he agreed to it, he would be a man of his word and pay. What Ram and Marc are doing are setting a terrible precident here by agreeing to gamble and then only after losing, decide that the match wasn't fair so they don't feel they should pay. Imagine trying that at the poker table, "Hey Ivey, you any good at Omaha H/L?" "I'm ok, it's not be best game but I'd play it." So we play, and I find out that he's been getting better and even took lessons from Mike Matusow. So he beats me for a million, but sweet! I don't have to pay! Woohoo! If they don't pay, they are welchers, no question about it. He's flat out calling Ivey a cheater, when there was no cheating going on. If anyone wouldn't be able to get into any high stakes golf matches, it's not Ivey that will have that problem. Would you feel comfortable playing against those two, knowing that if you play better than they thought you would, that they may just decide, "Hmm... well, you made too many putts and hit too many greens. Sorry, not paying." Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 What happened to this?I think on this issue the point of changing people's minds has passed. Personally the issues of a wager between people I have never met does not concern me in the least. It's good that you stick up for your friends but engaging in this debate with wholly uninterested parties is a worthless endeavor. I thought about that, but decided to post a reply after Ram called Ivey out as a cheater. That is so uncalled for and I felt like it deserved a response. Link to post Share on other sites
Oziumrules 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Oz, can you hook me up with one of these?I have one Callaway Rocketlauncher left..a 9 degree...its yours for a box of Cohibas. Link to post Share on other sites
Isaacs 0 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I thought about that, but decided to post a reply after Ram called Ivey out as a cheater. That is so uncalled for and I felt like it deserved a response.Daniel, i really dont see why you are getting involved in this situation whatsoever. This whole debacle is tarnishing the reputations of the players who actually played already, i dont see why you would actually want to be dragged into it when its going to tarnish yours. Im not sure if Phil dragged you into it, or you forced yourself in but IMO your opinions arent exactly what this situation needs right now. Your blog has single handedly turned this private heated debate into a huge topic of discussion in every single heavy populated poker forum on the net. I know you're going to bounce back with Marc Goodwins blog post, but we all know how many more people have access to your blog and views, and most importantly, when those views are biased towards your friend, it isnt exactly fair to all sides involved. Let it pass, let Ram, Marc, Phil, his coach and the arbitrators sort this whole shambles out in Vegas this week and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
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