New Challenge (old Challenge)

[TeeSludge 0]

How come there's no smaller stakes HU than .25/.5 - is the rake too much of a killer at micro levels?

the rake is almost impossible to beat even at 50nl

[Acid_Knight 2]

the rake is almost impossible to beat even at 50nl

Well, for those of us who don't run at 25ptbb/100 maybe. I'm sure you could do it Tre.

[Suited_Up 2]

the rake is almost impossible to beat even at 50nl

To get an idea on how much you make vs how much rake you pay. It's pretty nuts.

[Suited_Up 2]

I'm up to $1200 now, think I should just move up to $100?

[psujohn 0]

the rake is almost impossible to beat even at 50nl

I doubt it. Hard to beat at better than 10PTBB/100 maybe but the competition is LOL. I do wish they'd cap the rake smaller though. I'll refuse to play people when they get super short because unless you can finish them quickly you can actually bust them and lose money on the deal.

[Giggidy 0]

To get an idea on how much you make vs how much rake you pay. It's pretty nuts.

Ty sir

[TeeSludge 0]

Well, for those of us who don't run at 25ptbb/100 maybe. I'm sure you could do it Tre.

hmmm maybe i'll have to do a prop bet

[cwik 0]

LOL, I seem to be popular today. But awake now!sooooooo... I play HU poker. In general my graph looks pretty similar to Tre's, except I am closer to break even in non-showdown pots where he has more of a gradual trend away from his blue line.Our style definitely differs from Acid and Naismiths, how however all seem to be pretty profitable. To be honest, I talk to Matt (acid_knight) a lot about HU poker. And in gerneral, I think if you took an indivudaul HH, we will most likely agree on the line htat should be taken. I suppose the differnce is how often we stray from that line. . Matt did mention before one of the differnces between our games, which is I might look for showdown value more often. I might not cbet a hand like middle pair or even Ace high, that I think has pretty good should down value, but is not in great shape when I get called. Checking down with Ace high type hands also has the added value of saying to my opponent, "see, I am not just cbetting everything, I check behind when I miss", which hopefully causes my actual cbets to get more credit, while I am picking up EV. However I am almost always betting hands that miss and have no showdown value, my big hands, and play my draws very fast. The other big spot in which our games differ is I think I am more likely to let an opponent keep bluffing off to me on multiple streets, where Acid is probably just putting chips earlier. Personally, I don't think my style is better (or particularly worse), but it is where I am comfertable playing. To be honest, I often am just not seeing the spots that would significally raise my non-showdown winnings. And also, it is important to note while they are picking up a lot of pots, their showdown winnings falls off the map, and I am sure it is pretty difficult to really define where the optimal play (balance) should be between the lines. I do know that Matt, Jay, Tre, and myself and all pretty talented players, but none of us have played enough hands to get a real idea of where our true win rate is (and something we may never know because we keep improving).Here are my HU graphs since April:PokerEVAll-in Luck

[Suited_Up 2]

hmmm maybe i'll have to do a prop bet

If I'm doing it, I think you could do it.and Yes, the competition is pretty LOL most of the time.

[Suited_Up 2]

LOL, I seem to be popular today. But awake now!sooooooo... I play HU poker. In general my graph looks pretty similar to Tre's, except I am closer to break even in non-showdown pots where he has more of a gradual trend away from his blue line.Our style definitely differs from Acid and Naismiths, how however all seem to be pretty profitable. To be honest, I talk to Matt (acid_knight) a lot about HU poker. And in gerneral, I think if you took an indivudaul HH, we will most likely agree on the line htat should be taken. I suppose the differnce is how often we stray from that line. . Matt did mention before one of the differnces between our games, which is I might look for showdown value more often. I might not cbet a hand like middle pair or even Ace high, that I think has pretty good should down value, but is not in great shape when I get called. Checking down with Ace high type hands also has the added value of saying to my opponent, "see, I am not just cbetting everything, I check behind when I miss", which hopefully causes my actual cbets to get more credit, while I am picking up EV. However I am almost always betting hands that miss and have no showdown value, my big hands, and play my draws very fast. The other big spot in which our games differ is I think I am more likely to let an opponent keep bluffing off to me on multiple streets, where Acid is probably just putting chips earlier. Personally, I don't think my style is better (or particularly worse), but it is where I am comfertable playing. To be honest, I often am just not seeing the spots that would significally raise my non-showdown winnings. And also, it is important to note while they are picking up a lot of pots, their showdown winnings falls off the map, and I am sure it is pretty difficult to really define where the optimal play (balance) should be between the lines. I do know that Matt, Jay, Tre, and myself and all pretty talented players, but none of us have played enough hands to get a real idea of where our true win rate is (and something we may never know because we keep improving).

Based on this, it sounds like you and I play quite a bit alike. I might even C-bet a little bit more, but if I can tell it isn't getting respect anymore, then I will start checking sometimes. A lot of my game seems to be about making the other player think what I want him to think. Which is why I don't 3-bet everytime I could, and so on.(To clarify a little:) Basically, most of the time when you're playing HU, you don't have shit, so you want to basically be able to take the pot down at will when you want to. So there are certain things I save for when I just want to get him off his bluff. 3-betting is very opponent dependent though, some players fold to it way too often, either that or they're raising as light as I am, and then others never fold to it. So I use it accordingly based on what I can do with it. Save it for bigger hands when they don't fold obv. If they fold too often (Like a guy I just played, super nit) then I will do it a lot more, and I probably raised 95% of my hands on the button against this specific player. My graph actaully looked a lot closer to Matt's in this past session, but he was probably the tighest player I've gone up against so far.I doubt it clarified as much as I set out to, but the paragraph got too long, so hopefully it makes a little sense. I'm still kinda working my game out, as I've only played a little over 4k hands, so it's tough to say "This is how I play", because I'm still discovering it myself, not to mention it will change as the limits change, but it sounds like Me, You and Tre are somewhat similar. Which is good news for me, lol.

[cwik 0]

I'm up to $1200 now, think I should just move up to $100?

I wouldn't be comfortable playing HU with anything less then 30 buyins, but prefer 50.

[cwik 0]

Based on this, it sounds like you and I play quite a bit alike. I might even C-bet a little bit more, but if I can tell it isn't getting respect anymore, then I will start checking sometimes. A lot of my game seems to be about making the other player think what I want him to think. Which is why I don't 3-bet everytime I could, and so on.I'm still kinda working my game out, as I've only played a little over 4k hands, so it's tough to say "This is how I play", because I'm still discovering it myself, not to mention it will change as the limits change, but it sounds like Me, You and Tre are somewhat similar. Which is good news for me, lol.

FWIW, it might be misrepresented about how often I cbet or not. I think mine and acid's numbers are actual pretty close in that area, which is somewhere between 65-80% depending on the opponent. But one thing to note is one can't cbet nearly as much as they would to in a 6-max or fullring game (which would be 90%+), becuase you just can't rep that much when you are playing 50% of the hands.

[Suited_Up 2]

FWIW, it might be misrepresented about how often I cbet or not. I think mine and acid's numbers are actual pretty close in that area, which is somewhere between 65-80% depending on the opponent. But one thing to note is one can't cbet nearly as much as they would to in a 6-max or fullring game (which would be 90%+), becuase you just can't rep that much when you are playing 50% of the hands.

I updated that last post.Basically it depends on the player. My last session I did it like 99% of the time cause the guy was super nitty, but normally, I don't even know. Is there a stat for that on PT3?

[Suited_Up 2]

I wouldn't be comfortable playing HU with anything less then 30 buyins, but prefer 50.

Yeah, going off when Tre said rake is a killer at 50, and move up ASAP, and he said I could probably gamble a little with 10-15 BI.I've never lost more than 4 in a session, and always got it back, so I dunno if that matters, lol.

[Giggidy 0]

Is there a stat for that on PT3?

That'll be C-bet %age

[Suited_Up 2]

That'll be C-bet %age

Oh, had to add it. Didn't remember I could do that, lol.Ok, CBetFlop%= 75%

[bull62 0]

Fun day so far.

[Giggidy 0]

PokerEV

Was the hu-uuuge dip around 15K mostly down to running bad?

[albertoflamingo 0]

My graph of 10 Nl is far this month.I'm concerned about my loss in non-showdown pots. Simo said that we should only be losing in non-showdown pots at a rate of -3bbs/100 but I'm losing in non-showdown pots at a rate of roughly -6bbs/100. What are some specific plays and adjustments that I can make to correct this?

[Acid_Knight 2]

What have we started....

[cubsfan44 0]

Was the hu-uuuge dip around 15K mostly down to running bad?

Pretty sure. It was mostly due to losing 20 buyins in a day.

[cubsfan44 0]

My graph of 10 Nl is far this month.I'm concerned about my loss in non-showdown pots. Simo said that we should only be losing in non-showdown pots at a rate of -3bbs/100 but I'm losing in non-showdown pots at a rate of roughly -6bbs/100. What are some specific plays and adjustments that I can make to correct this?

Youve played 20k hands......

[Suited_Up 2]

Pretty sure. It was mostly due to losing 20 buyins in a day.

Stop Loss FTW.

[albertoflamingo 0]

Youve played 20k hands......

How many do I need for a significant sample?

[cubsfan44 0]

How many do I need for a significant sample?

Well thats debatable. Some would say infinite. Id say you could start getting an idea around a 100k or so.