bryan21 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I was watching the WSOP 2006 ME last night. I remember watching DN's video blogs and he was talking about the poor play in the ME this year. Now I know exactly what he was talking about. Early in the tournament DN made a standard raise to $150 or something like that. A kid on his right pushed all in at $5K to go. DN makes a comment and the kid says "That's poker!" Daniel says "No, That's not poker!" I laughed my *** off. Link to post Share on other sites
poker phayce 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 next year the main event should be played on the internet Link to post Share on other sites
Scanner313 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 A kid on his right pushed all in at $5K to go. DN makes a comment and the kid says "That's poker!" Daniel says "No, That's not poker!"Daniel may be right that the dude's play wasn't "good" poker, but when all was said and done, remember who scooped that pot. Link to post Share on other sites
revg 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I was watching the WSOP 2006 ME last night. I remember watching DN's video blogs and he was talking about the poor play in the ME this year. Now I know exactly what he was talking about. Early in the tournament DN made a standard raise to $150 or something like that. A kid on his right pushed all in at $5K to go. DN makes a comment and the kid says "That's poker!" Daniel says "No, That's not poker!" I laughed my *** off.The kid to his right may have won that pot, but that's not poker. That is a donkey play. If the kid had any skill whatsoever he would play his hand instead of being to scared to play it. Pushing preflop in that situation is a bonehead play that basically tells everyone that you have no post flop game.Even IF the kid had a big hand like AA his move still sucks because he got no value from his hand. If the kid had a 32o and was trying to steal it's still stupid.What the kid is doing is not poker it's craps. Link to post Share on other sites
hblask 1 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Daniel may be right that the dude's play wasn't "good" poker, but when all was said and done, remember who scooped that pot.So if you risk 5K to win $150 every hand, that's good playing? Or is just because nobody called on this particular hand? Link to post Share on other sites
umop-apisdn 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The kid to his right may have won that pot, but that's not poker. That is a donkey play. If the kid had any skill whatsoever he would play his hand instead of being to scared to play it. Pushing preflop in that situation is a bonehead play that basically tells everyone that you have no post flop game.What the kid is doing is not poker it's craps.Why tap the glass? Anyone with any sense would just keep quiet and let the guy hang himself sooner or later... Link to post Share on other sites
eYank 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So if you risk 5K to win $150 every hand, that's good playing? Or is just because nobody called on this particular hand?thats wat i thought when i read this postidk if this is true but does Kill Phil teach something like this, i thought i read somewhere that when playing against pros pushing in helps decrease their advantages in skill on u, but i def. wouldnt do it considering u can lose ur whole tourney right there Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Daniel may be right that the dude's play wasn't "good" poker, but when all was said and done, remember who scooped that pot.That's irrelevant. What matters is the EV of the play. It's the classic if you have the nuts no one is calling so you've minimised your value, if you don't have the nuts your only getting called/raised by the nuts and risking $5k to win ~$250.Calling an all-in of $7k into a $300 pot with nothing but a 3 high flush draw is also not good poker, even if you do win the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 that's just freeroll play. easy to counter, but utterly annoying. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 thats wat i thought when i read this postidk if this is true but does Kill Phil teach something like this, i thought i read somewhere that when playing against pros pushing in helps decrease their advantages in skill on u, but i def. wouldnt do it considering u can lose ur whole tourney right thereGee ... I wonder how deep that kid made it? Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The kid to his right may have won that pot, but that's not poker. That is a donkey play. If the kid had any skill whatsoever he would play his hand instead of being to scared to play it. Pushing preflop in that situation is a bonehead play that basically tells everyone that you have no post flop game.Even IF the kid had a big hand like AA his move still sucks because he got no value from his hand. If the kid had a 32o and was trying to steal it's still stupid.What the kid is doing is not poker it's craps.QFT. 'Nuff said. Jeez. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I'm not advocating the play...but I find it funny when pros say this isn't poker. This is exactly poker. The kid is at a huge disadvantage against Daniel the farther the hand gets. I somehow doubt this was going through his mind, but if he is pretty sure he has the best hand, get it all in and don't let yourself get outplayed on the turn/river. I mean, thats standard Kill Phil. Pros hate to play big pots all the time, and this is what a lot of the donkeys want to do.Daniel feels this wasn't poker because it took all of the 'skill' out. You could argue that this kids best chance of beating Daniel was to not let himself get outplayed at a later stage, and thus he was playing the best poker he was able. And that is a skill in itself...:)Mark Even IF the kid had a big hand like AA his move still sucks because he got no value from his hand. If the kid had a 32o and was trying to steal it's still stupid.The kid's hand here is really irrelevant. If you are ever playing a pro and massive shove like that, your hand is meaningless. How strong the pros hand is, that's what matters. They just won't call you. We see this time and time again. Because their strength is beating you over the long run.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
revg 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 QFT. 'Nuff said. Jeez.I know what you are trying to do.... and I don't like itI'm not advocating the play...but I find it funny when pros say this isn't poker. This is exactly poker. The kid is at a huge disadvantage against Daniel the farther the hand gets. I somehow doubt this was going through his mind, but if he is pretty sure he has the best hand, get it all in and don't let yourself get outplayed on the turn/river. I mean, thats standard Kill Phil. Pros hate to play big pots all the time, and this is what a lot of the donkeys want to do.Daniel feels this wasn't poker because it took all of the 'skill' out. You could argue that this kids best chance of beating Daniel was to not let himself get outplayed at a later stage, and thus he was playing the best poker he was able. And that is a skill in itself...:)MarkThe kid's hand here is really irrelevant. If you are ever playing a pro and massive shove like that, your hand is meaningless. How strong the pros hand is, that's what matters. They just won't call you. We see this time and time again. Because their strength is beating you over the long run.MarkYou make a good point. Link to post Share on other sites
kmak 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 thats wat i thought when i read this postidk if this is true but does Kill Phil teach something like this, i thought i read somewhere that when playing against pros pushing in helps decrease their advantages in skill on u, but i def. wouldnt do it considering u can lose ur whole tourney right thereI didn't see the hand and no one has said what he had, but Kill Phil "basic" advocates a raise of 1/6 of your stack with AA or KK, and all other bets are a push, depending on position, stack size relative to blinds, any raisers or limpers, and your hand.Given Daniel's strategy of playing every hand, he's likely not to make much off of him using Kill Phil. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Daniel may be right that the dude's play wasn't "good" poker, but when all was said and done, remember who scooped that pot.Way to be results-oriented I think "look who won" is probably one of the fishiest, donkiest comments anyone can make. Link to post Share on other sites
Orion071 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The kid's hand here is really irrelevant. If you are ever playing a pro and massive shove like that, your hand is meaningless. How strong the pros hand is, that's what matters. They just won't call you. We see this time and time again. Because their strength is beating you over the long run.MarkExcept when you push in that massive overbet and the pro calls you with the nuts. Examples of this last year are when Sammy Farha calls that guy's $1000 pre-flop raise (25-25 blinds, remember) and busts him when he flops a set. Also, when that other guy shoved in on Howard Lederer after Howard turned the nut full house. Man, Howard had some serious control to not fall off of his chair laughing at that one.So how stupid would that kid feel if he pushes with KJo and DN calls him with AA? Pros are allowed to get AA you know. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Poker = Move Luck than skill. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Except when you push in that massive overbet and the pro calls you with the nuts. Examples of this last year are when Sammy Farha calls that guy's $1000 pre-flop raise (25-25 blinds, remember) and busts him when he flops a set. Also, when that other guy shoved in on Howard Lederer after Howard turned the nut full house. Man, Howard had some serious control to not fall off of his chair laughing at that one.So how stupid would that kid feel if he pushes with KJo and DN calls him with AA? Pros are allowed to get AA you know.I hate to give you the Smash line here, but did you even read my post? My point was exactly that. If you massive massive shove vs a pro on the flop, what two cards you hold don't matter, because a pro will only call with the nuts or close to it. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Fold JJ-AA in the first 2 levels of play, they're losing cards. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I think "look who won" is probably one of the fishiest, donkiest comments anyone can make.But wait, isn't the person who wins the pot the better poker player?Or is it who has the better long term results...I get soooo confused.Someone enlighten my troubled mind! Link to post Share on other sites
doublemeup 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 That was great when DN straightened that donk out. Go Go DN! Link to post Share on other sites
Scanner313 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Way to be results-oriented I think "look who won" is probably one of the fishiest, donkiest comments anyone can make.Yes, you're right. It is one of the fishiest, donkiest comments because I honestly feel that that kid (whoever he was) was a much better player than Daniel and would have easily taken Daniel down had they gone heads up. right back at you.My point is, in the context of THAT ONE HAND, Daniel put out a bet and the kid stole the pot by going all-in. Whether you like the play or not, he won the pot. The fact that the pot wasn't big enough for you to be of value is irrelevant. The kid ended up with more chips at the end of THAT HAND then before he started it. Will that lousy strategy hold up if he continued to do that every single play, of course not. Am I saying the kid was playing good poker, no, I specifically said that Daniel would be right to say that it was not GOOD poker. Was it poker, absolutely. Just not Daniel's definition of poker. Link to post Share on other sites
blacktie31 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 thats wat i thought when i read this postidk if this is true but does Kill Phil teach something like this, i thought i read somewhere that when playing against pros pushing in helps decrease their advantages in skill on u, but i def. wouldnt do it considering u can lose ur whole tourney right thereI'm reading it right now and that is pretty much the jist of the book.It's not wrong though, if that guy had any kind of hand at all he's at worst 70/30 agains Daniel. I'm pretty sure he can maybe outplay DN like 10% of the time, but only if DN's drunk, so push it prob the +EV move for him. Link to post Share on other sites
bascomeb 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Poker = Move Luck than skill.stop being so depressed Link to post Share on other sites
PiercE^Bodog 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Why tap the glass? Anyone with any sense would just keep quiet and let the guy hang himself sooner or later...~Phil Gordon Link to post Share on other sites
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