mattster 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 The purpose of this thread is to gather tips and information about the best way to approach your mother when it comes to exlplaning that poker is not gambling. I am 26 years old and I work in a bank. On the side I play poker online and have been doing so since october 2004. I am a winning player, not big time but I am a consistently winning player. My games of choice is shorthanded 1-2 NL HE and 2-4 fixed Omaha H/L. Now it may sound strange for me being 26 and all to care about what my mother thinks about poker. But the thing is that my mother doesnt feel good at all knowing I play poker. She is convinced poker is the devul and genuinely believes I am destroying my life. I dont want her to feel that way, I want my mother to feel good. So this is the way Ive been trying to explain poker to her.1. Poker is about making the right choices, its not about winning pots. Winning pots is irrelevant in the long run. 2. As long as I know I am making the correct statistical choices, the only factor that determines how much money I will make is the amount of hours spent at the table. 3. Regarding the fact that during some days its possible to lose money I tell her this: Imagine you had an assymetrical coin, which when flipped ended up on the crown-side 55% of the time and tail 45%. In this scenario you will know that when you flipp it calling out "crown" you would be making a statistical correct decision. If crown gives + 1 dollar and tail - 1 dollar the only factor determining your profit is time. Now it is very likely that if you flip it 500 times "tails" will come out on some occasion maybe 7 or 8 times in a row anyway. These are the bad sessions at the poker table. Now please come with more suggestions!FOr the sake of every young pokerplayers with motherproblems! Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 obv to people who dont understandpoker = gamblingand people have problems with gamblingive been there before and im still at that point so my advice is just to keep it on the low Link to post Share on other sites
offset 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Whenever you win tell her and tell her how much you won. Hard data is a lot easier to swallow than theoretical stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
ryansd 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 No doubt about it, parents have a tough time with it. I honestly went through the same thing with mine at one point. Believe it or not, I sat down and watched a WSOP episode with them and explained what was going on.Once they felt like they understood the game a bit better it was much more clear. Not to mention I call them on every big score, even to this day. I know the feeling and the previous poster is right. Hard numbers. Link to post Share on other sites
mosley 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 dude, you said it yourself because you know it's true.tell your mother it is what you like to do. if she doesn't like it, grow some nards and be a man. life is not about pleasing your mom. Link to post Share on other sites
Steamed Rice 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 dude, you said it yourself because you know it's true.tell your mother it is what you like to do. if she doesn't like it, grow some nards and be a man. life is not about pleasing your mom.QFT Link to post Share on other sites
DaBruins 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Poker is the Devil! Link to post Share on other sites
cfinnn 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Try watching some WPT or WSOP episodes with her. That's what I do with my mother and she actually enjoys it (though I still don't give her details about my swings at the tables, because that she doesn't get).No matter how hard you try, some people are determined to stick to their misconceptions, whatever the consequences. My father is this way. He says poker is all about bluffing (but, of course, he doesn't actually play poker). He is convinced that I will be sucked into the lifestyle of a degenerate gambler. It's really nice when your parents have such faith in you. For some people, no amount of expaining will ever get through to them. If your mother happens to be that type of person, there's no point in beating your head against a wall.Best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites
AceJackOffS 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 when I first started to play poker my mom didn't like it either but with a little explaining, some big wins, and the growth of poker and it being so huge now, she thinks it is a good thing. let some time go by she will come around. Link to post Share on other sites
Blake Brentwood 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Just tell her that you quit. That will get her off your back. Obviously nothing good has come from her knowing that you play poker, so there's no good reason why she should know. Unless of course you still live at home, which would be really sad because, dude, you're 26!!! If you want her off your back, then move out. Link to post Share on other sites
Dhall901 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I read the first sentence, and u are an idiot. Poker is without a doubt gambling, don't lie to ur mother, son. Sheesh Link to post Share on other sites
fatman 1 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Stop telling her when you play. Even when you catch a big score keep it to yourself. You are an adult and what you do is your own business. Link to post Share on other sites
beaneau 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Much of the time, stats and probabilities are unsatisfying explanations to women. If her problem is emotional, then appealing to the left brain is unlikely to be of any use. Presenting accurate records will at least provide the truth to her about how well you are doing, but her emotional distraction will be difficult to change. I would suggest watching WPT or WSOP with her, as it will show her that it is really pretty average people who love this game, and not just crazy addicts. Also maybe playing a session while she watches, explaining what is going on during the play. I think being up front will show her that you have nothing to be ashamed of, and even if she never grows to like your activity in poker, you will at least be an honest and respectful son.Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Trust me your mother doesn't care if poker is gambling or skill. She doesn't care if you win or lose. She doesn't care if you apply sound mathmetical logic to your decisions. She want to hear a few things:- I'm not risking any money I can't afford to lose- I'm not doing anything crazy like quitting my job- I'm not addicted to poker and can stop if I chose- It's a hobby I greatly enjoy that makes me a little extra moneyEven the bit about making you extra money is probably irrelevant. The key is:1) It's not harming me and it's not going to harm me2) I enjoy itYour mother will understand and respect that. Link to post Share on other sites
koolromeo 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 my mother hates me playing poker. so does just about evrey other family member, but i have made one argument that has eased their minds considerably. i explained to them that i only play poker with the money i make from poker. the term bankroll means nothing to them but this phrasing they get. when i can show them 50 $100 bills and they can see some of my poker money, not just some numbers on a computer screen, they seem to get it. when they see that i'm not playing with the rent, car, food money ect... , they get off my back.. hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites
gatortom64 1 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Call Daniel. Have your mom meet his mom. Daniel's mom will fix a nice lunch and explain what really happens at the tables. Piece of cake!!(sw?) Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda 1 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 The purpose of this thread is to gather tips and information about the best way to approach your mother when it comes to exlplaning that poker is not gambling.Thats so naive lol. You should have bought her an above average mothers day present. That woulda shut her mouth. Link to post Share on other sites
llou 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 As a woman old enough to be your mother , I might be able to be of some help here.As a few other posters have said, it's probably not about statistics for her. It's probably her maternal instincts kicking in causing her to be concerned that you are heading down a self-destructive path. I have a younger brother (almost old enough to be your dad) and I still worry about his poker playing in spite of the fact that he plays less than I do and has never been irresponsible with his money. I just worry about him because he is my baby brother and I have always looked after him. Worrying about him is simply ingrained within my being. I changed his diapers when he was a baby, taught him to swim, took him to kiddie movies when I was in high school, etc. etc. etc. That nurturing instinct doesn't stop just because the kid grow up.My suggestion is to acknowledge that maternal instinct as normal and work with it (as you seem to be doing) -- just as Daniel includes his mom in his life.1. Show her how you manage your money. Reassure her that you are not using your rent money, retirement savings, etc. to play cards. Show her how you separate your poker money from the money you have earned from your job. (See koolromeo's post above.) If you can't do that, then her concerns may be justified and you should address that problem with your financial management.2. Reassure her that your poker playing does not involve the abuse of alcohol, drugs, or loose women. If it does include those things, then stretch the truth a little bit. Moms don't need to know all the details. If those things are causing problems in your life, then take care of those problems -- but keep those issues separate. But in your mom's eyes, poker might lead you to those things -- so, reassure her as much as you can about those things.3. I like the idea of watching some poker on TV together -- particularly if you can choose to watch a rerun that you know doesn't include anything that would upset her. It would be good to choose an episode that included people's families watching from the sidelines and being featured in the little player profiles. You also might want to point out to her how lots of respectable people from all walks of life play poker. (like me!)4. If she objects to poker because she has religious beliefs tht forbid gambling of any kind ... that will probably remain a problem. But if you have shown yourself to be a responsible, up-standing member of your community in other ways, the 2 of you might be able to "agree to disagree" on that and still have a good relationship.Daniel wrote a blog on this topic. You might want to look for it in the archives. It was a while ago (a year?).Good luck,llou Link to post Share on other sites
TS Clark 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Let's all understand one thing (and I think many of us do) -- poker is gambling. It is. This is not in dispute. You are risking money by betting on a series of uncertain and uncontrollable propositions. That's gambling. If you are a good player, you are gambling with an edge, but you are still gambling. When your mom calls it gambling, she's using the correct word.The other thing is that people are addicted to playing poker. If your mom asserts this, she is right. And because this activity involves money and potential addiction, she is not being unreasonable to worry. Go to a Gamblers Anon meeting and see if you think there is occasionally some "downside" to games of chance.With these things said, you can reasonably explain to your mom that almost any entrepreneurial venture is a "gamble" -- the stock market, opening your own business, moving to a new city to find work, getting married, etc.. The thing that distinguishes "good" gambles from "bad" ones is that the intelligent and reasonable "gambler" invests his time/money/resources in places where he has an edge. Tell her you feel that poker is such an investment for you. Explain that you don't spend tons of time in this activity (and, at the stakes you play, I hope this is true for the sake of spending your youth wisely) and that you don't risk money you'll miss. It's simply a modestly lucrative hobby that brings you enjoyment. Don't show her your bankroll (I am constantly amused everytime this topic comes up by the legion of wannabe high-stakes gamblers who purport to pull out a gangster's roll of hundreds to supposedly assuage their loved ones' concerns), don't do the math with her (she won't get it or be interested), don't watch poker on TV with her hoping she'll see the light. State your case, use a little logic, then ask her to respect your decisions. Hopefully, you are a person whose track record and established character is such that she'll believe you and ease up on the worry throttle.Beyond that, it's her problem. You're a grown man (or semi-grown, possibly), so you can only worry about the opinions of others on topics like this to a certain extent. Link to post Share on other sites
Flushgarden 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Just wait until you guys get wives. lolThat's a whole different story...if she tells you not to play you kinda actually have to listen to her. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 He is convinced that I will be sucked into the lifestyle of a degenerate gambler.Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just wait until you guys get wives. lolThat's a whole different story...if she tells you not to play you kinda actually have to listen to her.Meh. .... More trouble on the horizon. Link to post Share on other sites
DLizzle 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 tell her when you win, never when you loseor don't tell her Link to post Share on other sites
finztotheleft 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Much of the time, stats and probabilities are unsatisfying explanations to women. If her problem is emotional, then appealing to the left brain is unlikely to be of any use. Presenting accurate records will at least provide the truth to her about how well you are doing, but her emotional distraction will be difficult to change. I would suggest watching WPT or WSOP with her, as it will show her that it is really pretty average people who love this game, and not just crazy addicts. Also maybe playing a session while she watches, explaining what is going on during the play. I think being up front will show her that you have nothing to be ashamed of, and even if she never grows to like your activity in poker, you will at least be an honest and respectful son.Good luck. Please tell me that you are not serious ! I can certainly see why intelligent women might be reluctant to spend any time with you given your misguided views Llou......I didn't realize that you were female too. We chicks have to stick together Matt......Listen to llou and TS Clark. If that doesn't work, have your mom call me. As a poker playing mom, I'd be happy to set her straight. It is true that if she is firmly opposed to any form of gambling that it will be pointless to try to change her mind. If she has ever bought a lottery ticket then let the reasoning begin. I'd try the "I started with $100 and put that back in the bank, I'm only playing with my winnings" approach. Good luck ! Link to post Share on other sites
llou 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Llou......I didn't realize that you were female too. We chicks have to stick together Yep. I'm a woman. When we played the other day it took me a moment to interpret your screen name. Then when I did, I couldn't get the song out of my head!When I was in grad school, I earned money working in the computer lab helping people run statistics and being the teaching assistance for the statistics courses. Yes, women can understand statistics. But I do think the OP will have more success with his mom if he shows her that he is responsible with his money and is "only playing with winnings" rather than gambling his financial security away. Her concern is probably more of an emotional concern for his welfare rather than a lack of statistical understanding. While beanu may have been a little tactless in his post, I think he was fundamentally correct. That's why I didn't respond to his post.I'll see you at the tables!llou Link to post Share on other sites
....Ian.... 0 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 OP, i'll put in a good word for you tonight, when i am putting something else in.ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing Link to post Share on other sites
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