question for daniel

[Nikki_N 17]

Way to go NormanHaupt! I love President Bartlet! It's too bad he's not real. I think that quote was a perfect illustration of the dangers of a literal Bible. Now... one shouldn't pick and choose what to take literally and what to ignore, for who are we to presume the will of God. I certainly don't! I love The Lord, and I depend on Christ for my salvation, because I am definitely a sinner. When I have a question in my heart about something from the Bible, I ask God for guidance, and I certainly don't call people out on a public forum for what I consider their sins. I give advice when asked, and always remember that using God's word to judge, criticize, or attack is very dangerous indeed. Nikki

[theresa113 0]

PHOENIX... very well said. Welcome to the forum.

[JBradburn6 0]

The Bible also says that you will be judged by your fruits and in the fruits of the flesh "drunkenness" and like the bible says "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. " 1. Define "drunkenness." Just drinking does not imply drunkenness. The fact that Daniel chose not to drive home after drinking does not imply drunkenness; it implies a smart decision. I think the intented meaning of drunkenness is a state where one cannot control his or her actions to the detriment of others. Simply having a few drinks with friends does not constitute drunkenness, and that's all that we know of the situation.2. Times have changed in the past 2,000 years. The Bible cannot be taken literally. I ask you, "Have you ever done work on a Sunday?" If so, let me know so that the next time I see you I throw a stone at you. I'm sure there will be many posts to this, so in a sense maybe it's good that you made the post to get people to think about their faith more, but there are many people out there who could use your "guidance" much more than Daniel.

[DJ_Chaps 0]

i feel stupider. if there is no room for god in public schools, then there sure as HELL (had to) is no room at the poker tables.u wanna talk about christians doing wrong???? go read a newspaper.

[puma12 0]

I think this is ridiculous. Why in the world should Daniel take the time to answer a post like this? Why should he keep writing the daily blogs if people are going to write posts like this? He shouldn't have to defend himself for opening up to us. He is doing us all a favor, let's try to keep that in mind when we post from now on.

[StonedViper 0]

Times have changed in the past 2,000 years. The Bible cannot be taken literally. I ask you, "Have you ever done work on a Sunday?" If so, let me know so that the next time I see you I throw a stone at you.

Amen, If i don't work on a sunday my boss will throw my A$$ out the door.

[Nikki_N 17]

I think this is ridiculous. Why in the world should Daniel take the time to answer a post like this? Why should he keep writing the daily blogs if people are going to write posts like this? He shouldn't have to defend himself for opening up to us. He is doing us all a favor, let's try to keep that in mind when we post from now on.

Right on!Nikki

[KDawgCometh 2]

Daniel has already addressed this issue...twice, since I've joined. I feel that one needs to live their life the best way they see fit and to not prejudge those around them and this is something that Daniel has worked on. It is not our place to place judgement on him in the slightest, and I feel that this thread is doing that. As long as he lives a just and honest life then he is fulfilling his duties to himself, he doesn't need to share every little aspect of his life and it is a privlege that he shares as much as he does. He opens his life up to us and lets us in, and he replys to our messages when he gets the chance, he doesn't need to do all of this but he does it because he wants to and enjoys it. So I ask you how about opening your life up to us so that we can determine if you are holding up to your christianity too. I feel that it is kinda rude to ask this question in this manner

[The Ace of Jades 0]

You know, I'm sure the bible says somethin bad about gambling too. But I'm pretty sure when you're up at the gates god isn't gonna be worried about that night you got sloshed and slept in your car.Not to mention Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice, wine.I was more worried that he slept in his car, had a cop come by he could have gotten a DUI.

[JaysonWeber 0]

One....the bible was inspired by God and it was written to show us how we should live our lives and yes you should follow it. The Bible also says that you will be judged by your fruits and in the fruits of the flesh "drunkenness" and like the bible says "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. " Yes, people make mistakes and can ask for forgiveness and go to Heaven, but to me, it didn't sound like he[Daniel] felt like he was doing anything that he would need to ask forgiveness for when he stayed up drinking all nightnow to the wine in the bible...like I have said in a previous post. The wine in the bible was new wine meaning unfermented. Emily

Jeeez... Now we have to apologize for drinking? Well I remember about half of last night, and half of it seems rather blurry. Yeah that's because I was drinking too much, and I couldn't driven home if I needed to. Drinking everyday may be sinful, but don't take the bible literally please. Having a few drinks with friends isn't a sin in my eyes, and I don't think Daniel is going to need to "ask for forgiveness" for having a few drinks with friends.

[KDawgCometh 2]

One....the bible was inspired by God and it was written to show us how we should live our lives and yes you should follow it. The Bible also says that you will be judged by your fruits and in the fruits of the flesh "drunkenness" and like the bible says "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. " Yes, people make mistakes and can ask for forgiveness and go to Heaven, but to me, it didn't sound like he[Daniel] felt like he was doing anything that he would need to ask forgiveness for when he stayed up drinking all nightnow to the wine in the bible...like I have said in a previous post. The wine in the bible was new wine meaning unfermented. Emily

Jeeez... Now we have to apologize for drinking? Well I remember about half of last night, and half of it seems rather blurry. Yeah that's because I was drinking too much, and I couldn't driven home if I needed to. Drinking everyday may be sinful, but don't take the bible literally please. Having a few drinks with friends isn't a sin in my eyes, and I don't think Daniel is going to need to "ask for forgiveness" for having a few drinks with friends.

right on Jayson. As long as people are true to themselves they'll always be okay

[theresa113 0]

If anything, we should be rejoicing that Daniel was smart enough to sleep in a car.Gosh, I wish the drunk driver who killed my dad would have slept in his car instead of drove. There are lots of references about wine new and old and they are not talking about fermentation. The bible is referencing how to store wine for preservation (you can't perserve grape juice, it will go rancid. Trust me, I am the worst at forgetting about food and drink in the fridge. I have lots of science experiments.). Everyone knows now in modern times that you should not mix old drink with new, or old food with new. 2,000 years ago there was lots of issues with health and food safety that we no longer have to contend. Also, 2,000 years ago, no one knew how to take the alcohol (the part that actually perserves the wine) out of the wine. How do I know that? Because it has been less than 30 years that we actually figured out how to make a good cup of decaf coffee by the swiss water method. Before that, decaf equaled yucky tasting Sanka.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Hi Emily, I'm not offended by your question in the least and would like to share my views with you on the subject. If you look closer at the Bible you'll also find passages where Jesus himself drinks wine. Not grape juice, but actual wine. I don't know the exact quote but there is another one that says something like, "Let us not be drunk by new wine" which implies that new wine could get you drunk. Since grape juice can't get you drunk then new wine has to be feremented otherwise that quote wouldn't make any sense. There are also passages in the Bible where Jesus discusses the health benefits of wine (not grape juice) in certain cases. Ultimately my take is this: it really depends on your definition of drunkenness. It's also about personal conviction. If alcohol is a problem for someone then clearly they shouldn't be drinking. If however they drink responsibly and in moderation it clearly states in the Bible that it's ok. Jesus drank wine. Only John the Baptist didn't consume alcohol for whatever reason. No where in the Bible does it state that it's wrong to DRINK, only that you should avoid DRUNKENNESS. Again, that's a term that's up for debate. What exactly qualifies as drunkeness? If I had a glass of wine with dinner would that qualify as drunkenness? I don't think so. Personally I am comfortable with my approach to alcohol. I was raised in a family where alcohol was used as a part of celebration. Personally I don't feel like I've been truly "drunk" in as long as I can remember. That night you were referring to I was totally exhausted. Sure I had a few drinks as well, but frankly even if I didn't have even one drink it wouldn't have been safe for me to drive in that state. I appreciate your question and would ask you to continue to read more on the subject. Drinking is not "wrong." If you are personally convicted by it then it might be wrong for you, but not necessarily universally wrong.

[NormanHaupt 0]

.. wow, took that one much easier than I would've.

[Solodell 0]

Well, Daniel pretty much nailed what I was thinking. I will say this, I'm a Christian who shares Daniel's viewpoints about drinking, and I understand where some people may interpret the bible to mean no drinking. I disagree with you, but I certainly don't think it dimishes the faith either of us has. I think you can definitely reach a point where you aren't drunk, but it isn't a good idea to climb into a thousand pound speeding bullet. So anyway, I wouldn't be quick to question someone on an issue where there is quite clearly differing opinions, unless of course you just didn't realize many people interpret differently....which I find unlikely.

[ddudley 0]

Okay I just spent a half hour finding this script so I can post it. I'll post it in the second half of my rant.First off, you're coming into a den of a bunch of gamblers talking about sin. If you expect the majority of us to take you any more seriously than the nut on the corner preaching about civilization's ruin, then you're seriously tilting worse than any of us. Most of us here certainly don't wish to be looked down upon. We drink because we drink, we gamble because we gamble, and most of us do that. If I were Daniel, I wouldn't be responding to ANY of these outright attacks. You're not here to ask him a question, you're here on a crusaide to not only guilt him, but to guilt others.Well, Missy, it won't work on me- I hope a moderater comes along and deletes this crap- because the last thing we need is a zealot preaching to us in our own house.You don't see any of us going to your church and holding up a sign for Women's abortion rights or homosexual rights, do you? Don't come in ours.JENNA JACOBSI don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.BARTLETYes, it does. Leviticus.JENNA JACOBS18:22BARTLETChapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. (small chuckles from the guests) She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, and always clears the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff, LeoO McGarry, insists on working on the Sabbath, Exodus 35:2, clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important, 'cause we've got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes us unclean, Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother, John, for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Jenna Jacobs fidgets uncomfortably.BARTLETThink about those questions, would you? One last thing, while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tightass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.Jenna Jacobs squirms in her seat but doesn't rise. Bartlet glares meaningfully at her. She finally rises out of her seat.

Wow, that may be the single best post I've seen on this board to date. Norman, thank you for saying everything I was thinking when I read that crap.

[Scott31 0]

Emily, I noticed that you quoted Corinthians, so let me ask you this: Have you ever uttered a word in a church? I bet your answer is yes, so let me now quote 1 Corinthians 14 and tell you why you're a sinner. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.Disgraceful. Do you feel disgraceful? You probably shouldn't and there's a reason for that. The above quote is, by all modern standards, just wrong and is based in a time where enlightenment probably wasn't a word in the Hebrew language (let alone any other language). I'm sure we could go on all day quoting scripture telling each other what we've done wrong, but it's kind of pointless. Everyone, in my opinion, should read and know the bible. Then, they should disregard much of it, while still holding onto the main themes such as loving thy neighbor, the ten commandments, beatitudes, etc. If you start taking random parts of the bible literally, you eventually end up with men and women not ever cutting their hair because the bible clearly states, "Hair is glory" (Menonites actually believe this).

[Scott31 0]

ddudley, Your above posting was titled "An open letter to Dr. Laura and was by J. Kent Aschroft, an accomplished theology scholar. West Wing revised it a bit and made it work for them. I found out that they eventually paid Mr. Ashcroft for his works rather than ripping off the quote completely. Anyway, I chose not to post it because she did not quote the OLD TESTAMENT, although I think the posting still helps prove the point. The Old Testament is a good work of history, but many of the specific ways to live that are mentioned in it should not be practiced unless you enjoy jail time :-)

[Eclypse 0]

ddudley,  Your above posting was titled "An open letter to Dr. Laura and was by J.  Kent Aschroft, an accomplished theology scholar.  West Wing revised it a bit and made it work for them.  I found out that they eventually paid Mr. Ashcroft for his works rather than ripping off the quote completely.  Anyway, I chose not to post it because she did not quote the OLD TESTAMENT, although I think the posting still helps prove the point.  The Old Testament is a good work of history, but many of the specific ways to live that are mentioned in it should not be practiced unless you enjoy jail time  :-)

Just in case someone wanted to look it up, it's Ashcraft, not Ashcroft.

[Scott31 0]

Just in case someone wanted to look it up, it's Ashcraft, not Ashcroft.

Yes, Ashcraft, sorry. A slip of the tongue due to having a country with an attorney general that lost an election to a dead guy (his name comes up quite a bit).

[mellofello 0]

One post mentioned this, but just to reiterate. You can get a DUI while sleeping in your car, even on private property. At least in Illinois, I did. And only blew a .087. Be careful folks, if you've never had a DUI, you don't want one.

[looshle 6]

[Duff_Man 0]

You know looshle I was thinking about flaming you for bringing a terrible topic back to life, but that pic made me laugh so I can't do it.Duffp.s. And please note I'm not anti religion at all. I just found that pic funny. Maybe because it's 5a.m and I'm at work and I'm mad tired.

[Dane 0]

The bible also says that if a man wants to sell his daughter to slavery, no one have to the right to stop him, there are tons of this kind of crap in that book and a few good morales, then there is all the stuff the committee didnt think was good enough to make it to print.Anyone see Penn & Tellers show about it? Show was called Bullshet with an i, great show.

[KingSalami 0]

The bible was written by MAN. Who even knows if god exists, and what kind of god he would be. I am sure of this, god wouldn't be vengeful, or a loving god. Why would god have human attributes. Why do you think there is talk about heavan and hell, to keep the sheep in line, thats why. Religion was devised to keep people in line, early priests were more like political figures then religious figures. Why would an all powerful and knowing being have human attributes, or even care about humans. god made us in his image and likeness, hahaha thats soo ridiculous. where is god in defending all of the animals on the endagered species list,or protecting all those that die in wars, or protecting those poor children who were abused by priests etc. cmon, people, wake up, we can't get a manned spacecraft past the moon, know very little about the universe, the never ending universe, but we figured out this god fellow thousands of years ago. heaven and hell??? i could go on for ever. So anyone who has killed is going against gods laws, including the animals. Thoult shall not kill. remember that one? was there a footnot notation on the tablet that said, unless eating food, or going to war, or when say a police officer kills a bad crook to save an innocent persons life. thats all killing isn't it. explain that one The crusades should have been enough to wake up an intelligent person to the evils of organized religions. and to the fact that they all talk out of their a@@es. ss the pope, gods choice to lead the world, who speaks for god thru divine intervention sent those soliders to the crusades?? so god was "cool" witht the crusades, because after all they were heathen barbarians, who were fabricated by that "other" god. i tell you this, if there is a god and he allows all of this bad crap to happen in this world, then i'd rather go to your "hell", because i'm sorely dissapointed. /rant