the big game cheats??

[iveyfan30 0]

Here is the link to the email at top of pagehttp://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...ccf709e3e65ec48This is the email I found...I dont know the validity of it though.

the fact that "daniel" misspeled jen;s name wrong in the email is a red flag that it wasnt him,,dont you think???????

[mark33f 0]

I was also skeptical about the fact he called doyle a "big fat cheat"...the spelling of the last name wouldn't be as obvious because i know a bunch of close friends and colleagues and i couldnt spell their last names right... let alone in a quick email. I dont know thats a good point though...wasnt daniels email address kidpoker@hotmail.com though (I vaguely remember this from his verbal wars with annie duke) ???

[iveyfan30 0]

I was also skeptical about the fact he called doyle a "big fat cheat"...the spelling of the last name wouldn't be as obvious because i know a bunch of close friends and colleagues and i couldnt spell their last names right... let alone in a quick email. I dont know thats a good point though...wasnt daniels email address kidpoker@hotmail.com though (I vaguely remember this from his verbal wars with annie duke) ???

im not sure about the email addy...it just smells fish to me,,,but unfortunately, we will never get the 100% real deal

[mark33f 0]

Yes here is the real deal on the email from Daniel himself:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...en&lr=&c2coff=1I guess I made a judgement on the orginial email prematurely.

[deviper 0]

I was also skeptical about the fact he called doyle a "big fat cheat"...the spelling of the last name wouldn't be as obvious because i know a bunch of close friends and colleagues and i couldnt spell their last names right... let alone in a quick email. I dont know thats a good point though...wasnt daniels email address kidpoker@hotmail.com though (I vaguely remember this from his verbal wars with annie duke) ???

im not sure about the email addy...it just smells fish to me,,,but unfortunately, we will never get the 100% real deal

wow i am so confused right now. I dont think that that email was really him but i just dont no. And im still sticking witht the fact that if all these guys are soposidly cheats then why are you playing wit them. If doyle is a big fat cheat then why would danny play with him in the big game. this is why i dont think danny wrote that message. I really think that this is all a bunch of nonsence. Danny if you read this i would really like to here wat you have to say about this whole thing.

[mark33f 0]

Danny did send the email but I guess it was to try to get information out of Russ and didnt really mean anything he said about Doyle...Daniel must have a lot of trust in Chip and Doyle to still play with them after they have been accused of cheating! Look at the explanation from Daniel I linked above...

[deviper 0]

Danny did send the email but I guess it was to try to get information out of Russ and didnt really mean anything he said about Doyle...Daniel must have a lot of trust in Chip and Doyle to still play with them after they have been accused of cheating! Look at the explanation from Daniel I linked above...

I think were finally gettin into the truth. I dont think cheating goes on at the ballagio(sorry for spelling im horrible at spelling :wink: ) or any casino for that fact. I beleave that russ has alot of problams and jsut has a grudge against people like doyle and chip ex.

[iveyfan30 0]

not sure what to make of it...if the first is daniel, which it seems to be he called a fat cheater , then begs off the comment in a later email.....i guess this is old news, but its the first ive heard of it..anybody else know anything more about this?? danny>??

[deviper 0]

Yes the reason i keep going on with this subject is because its all new to me. I just wont to get down to it and find out wat is goin on.

[bourbenz 0]

well I think the emails make sense if you read daniels second letter.And honestly if daniel considered doyle a cheat do you really think he would write a chapter for doyles book?

[Dane 0]

http://www.recgroups.com/rec.gambling.poker/ Found it on page 2

[ddudley 0]

http://www.recgroups.com/rec.gambling.poker/ Found it on page 2

Are you trying to link to a post? If so, you didn't get the job done. Is this what you are talking about?http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...+WSOP+Events%22This whole situation sucks big rocks. The thought of this crap I see on Tilt actually being reality makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not sure what to believe at this point. Poker hasn't been going well for me recently and crap like this makes it so much easier to quit forever.It does make it easier to beleive this guy is an idiot when he can't even get the basic facts straight and makes accusations against a guy who donates all his tournament winnings to charity.

[koolromeo 0]

he isn't say barry greenstein is a cheat. he's saying that because barry never played in vegas until recently is because he knew the vegas games were crooked. if this is the reason barry stayed in califorina, i wonder what made him change his mind and come to vegas.

[koolromeo 0]

it's very naive to think that poker players don't cheat in some way. whether it's blatant like on tilt or as simple as not telling a player u can see his hole cards. would u think this is cheating:? say daniel and jen harmen are in a pot together and one of them slows down their play so the other doesnt get beaten up too badly. say its a hand where daniel would automatically move in, but he doesn't because its his friend. when the cards are shown down, daniel had a set and jen had 2 pair. daniel would have say won $50,000 more if he moved all in and was called. who gets hurt you say, i'll tell u who. the player that had daniel covered when daniel bluffs all in and the other player calls. the other player was cheated out of $50,000. i've done this. i've been in pots and slowed down a bit so i wouldn't drain someone. i'm sure most of us have. but, it's still cheating. i know people will say i play to win against everyone. i usually do to, but wasn't there at least one time u eased up a bit? bottom line is, when there is money or bragging rights to be won, people are gonna cheat, sometimes they just don't know they are.

[justblaze 0]

Say what you want about Russ, but at least some of what he says is true. DN has confirmed that the emails russ posted were written by him. Doyle has taken the time to defend himself against Russ's allegations. Why would he defend himself if they were so far-fetched as to not be believable. A big story broke in LA newspapers in 1982 about widespread cheating in CA, notably at gardena. Russ was mentioned (he now goes under the alias GCA, short for Gardena Cheaters Association). The names, dates and games russ claims were being cheated all make sense chronologically and are plausible, if not confirmed. Russ has been confirmed by several notable high limit players as a fierce shorthanded limit player. Many of his claims regarding online poker seem a little wild, but there is no doubt some of his claims have elements of truth.

[Wilderness 0]

DN has confirmed that the emails russ posted were written by him.

And where did you see this confirmation?

[justblaze 0]

DN has confirmed that the emails russ posted were written by him.

And where did you see this confirmation?

rec.gambling.poker its in the archives. our fearless leader indeed responded to Russ posting supposed emails written by DN to Russ. DN did not at this time deny that he wrote the emails, which by process of elimination strongly suggests he did in fact write them.

[Leedspokerguru 0]

say daniel and jen harmen are in a pot together and one of them slows down their play so the other doesnt get beaten up too badly.  say its a hand where daniel would automatically move in, but he doesn't because its his friend.  when the cards are shown down,  daniel had a set and jen had 2 pair.  daniel would have say won $50,000 more if he moved all in and was called.  

Wrong. Poker players love nothing more than taking money from each other and getting the bragging rights. Sometimes I play online with my cousin and I play harder against him than anyone, more so becuase I know the way he plays. He doesn't like playing against me . Jen would love to tak DN and I'm sure same applies vice versa. They have your chips and you do your best to get them back. Thats the way I think of it. If there good enough they'll get to keep em even take some of mine. BUT the better be good enough or those chips are MY CHIPS.Just to add about the cheat thing. I wouldn't be shocked to hear the stars or members of the elite have some scam going on. No offense to anyone as this isn't a said thing but some of em for sure. I've heard about MENs groups before the WSOP. But pokerg is a game about taking money from others. Normally through skill but if you had the option to get the money by other means then you would consider it I'm sure. I for one am very anti cheating. If I found out I was husstled I'd take a bat to the guy who did. I think there low lifes.

[card79 0]

Say it ain't so Danny. Tell us all this stuff is crap. Cheating is always a fear of mine when I am playing online and such, but to find out that the pro players who are always telling us how to play are cheating would be enough for me to walk away from it. This isn't like taking steroids either. This is like know what plays the other team is calling. It is like using a baseball bat to take running backs down.

[Backler 0]

C'mon everyone, we all play poker, what does your gut tell you?Does what Russ say and print "feel" legit? Or does it sound more like an attention starved guy trying to be involved in this poker outbreak.What did he state in his article? Him and his buddy survived assasination attempts? ASSASINATION ATTEMPTS?OK, lemme get this straight, him and a friend were almost killed, yet he is still out preaching about how some poker pros steamroll newcommers and how some poker game in some casino is rigged. (i know, it's "the big game" but it's still just a game, people aren't forced to play in it)Let's weigh this out. Spread rumors that are still not proven for no apparent gain other than attention.....................or........................ Get killed.I'm gonna go with what my head tells me. I do not believe the assasination statement, therefore much of his argument has no validity.While i'm sure some form of slightly off kilter play might take place, i highly doubt it's anything like what this guy is claiming. They are all already filthy stinking rich, and continually prove they are the best.Do you really think they need to cheat?I don't.

[justblaze 0]

C'mon everyone, we all play poker, what does your gut tell you?Does what Russ say and print "feel" legit?  Or does it sound more like an attention starved guy trying to be involved in this poker outbreak.What did he state in his article? Him and his buddy survived assasination attempts? ASSASINATION ATTEMPTS?OK, lemme get this straight, him and a friend were almost killed, yet he is still out preaching about how some poker pros steamroll newcommers and how some poker game in some casino is rigged. (i know, it's "the big game" but it's still just a game, people aren't forced to play in it)Let's weigh this out.  Spread rumors that are still not proven for no apparent gain other than attention.....................or........................ Get killed.I'm gonna go with what my head tells me.  I do not believe the assasination statement, therefore much of his argument has no validity.While i'm sure some form of slightly off kilter play might take place, i highly doubt it's anything like what this guy is claiming. They are all already filthy stinking rich, and continually prove they are the best.Do you really think they need to cheat?I don't.

you have no idea of what you are talking about. While some of Russ's claims seem to be ridiculous i.e. assassination attempts, others have significant plausibility and validity. Major news outlets covered the discovery of widespread cheating at Gardena in the early 80s. The names that Russ stated were involved all match high level Gardena employees at this time. The cold-decking and collusion packs russ claims to have been a part of are all quite plausible and mentioned in passing in many pros books. all kinds of games were crooked in the 80s. players were allowed to deal to themselves in card clubs. no house dealers. no sophisticated camera systems. no rules about tipping which allowed floormen who were on the take to keep their payoffs. Its all very plausible. I wont say its fact because its not, but to dismiss it makes you as naive as those who believe russ wholeheartedly. Doyle himself tells a story of playing a game naked in a locker room as this was the only way he could be sure he wasnt being cheated. As for why they would cheat, one word. MONEY. LOTS OF F*CKING MONEY.

[Backler 0]

Sorry, i should have been more clear and read a bit more. I'll admit I havent read a ton on this, but it seems that Russ is accusing todays top pros of cheating in the past (which i will definitly give a possibility too) but also regularly cheating in todays big games as well.While I may not know for sure one way or the other (no one does but those involved), it just doesn't seem like something like this could be kept under the hat. Poker has a frickin microscope on it right now, and everyone is looking through it.Again, no one knows the truth for sure. One guy makes accusations and the people accused are blasted, true or not. Russ must not have hard evidence OR concrete proof, otherwise the 'Big Game" would have fallen apart due to people not giving action to proven cheaters.People who make accusations and embelish their "facts" don't rank high in my book. Defend him all day long if you want to, and definitly get the cheaters out if it is so, but show proof.

[justblaze 0]

Sorry, i should have been more clear and read a bit more. I'll admit I havent read a ton on this, but it seems that Russ is accusing todays top pros of cheating in the past (which i will definitly give a possibility too) but also regularly cheating in todays big games as well.While I may not know for sure one way or the other (no one does but those involved), it just doesn't seem like something like this could be kept under the hat. Poker has a frickin microscope on it right now, and everyone is looking through it.Again, no one knows the truth for sure. One guy makes accusations and the people accused are blasted, true or not. Russ must not have hard evidence OR concrete proof, otherwise the 'Big Game" would have fallen apart due to people not giving action to proven cheaters.People who make accusations and embelish their "facts" don't rank high in my book.  Defend him all day long if you want to, and definitly get the cheaters out if it is so, but show proof.

Russ has not accused anyone of cheating in the big game. in case you dont know, the big game is a dealers choice game at the bellagio, with stakes of 4k 8k and 100k cap on NL games. He has accused many of the regular players of having been cheats in the past, or having been aware of cheating and not reporting it. He also has suggested that some softplaying, and angle shooting might still be going on. He would not make any substantial claims about these games as he has been barred from vegas casinos (this is verified) and therefore has not played in the game in question. even if he could get in the establishment none of those guys would play with him.

[Backler 0]

Sorry, i misread the articles.

[ferrisbuellr 0]

It seem to me that this Russ guy is a whacko.....He talks with a split toungue and when caught in a dead lie he cant fess up and tries to cover it up with some other BS....Pretty sad dude. And Russ get a new a hair dresser....The "Pee Wee Herman" look is not hot anymore........Also just for everyone who is getting started or even for the seasoned pro's: If you walk into a game and feel uncomfortable with the players/enviroment/staff/ect...DO NOT PLAY THERE --------There are a thousand card rooms around and you have to find one where you can compete fairly. I like to start tables online too...that way there are less chances for collusion. GL ALL!!!!! FerrisBuellr on POKERSTARS & UB - Russ is a first class whacko jacko....yeah maybe he and micheal jackson can team up to stop cheating and underage drinking and they can set up shop at a chuck e cheese in vegas...hehehe....he is king of losers, or close to it.