barry greenstein being arrogant in the wcoop

[KowboyKoop 0]

comment to Barry: I'm sure there must be players with the ability to make the big game one day.Barry's response: haven't seen it. No way for tournament players to achieve it....can't get good unless you have good opposition.

Two wordsPhil Ivey

Phil Ivey is not a "tournament player." He is a cash game player who does well in tournaments. Ivey himself will tell you this. Barry is referring to "tourmanent players" such as a Phil Hellmuth, who makes most of his money from tournaments...

[AKS 0]

look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....ss if you don't like it

Well if we are talking about someone who is best all around at what they do then Dion is a poor example as he was one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen. He was FAST and pretty decent at covering but when it came to tackling (which is rather important as a DB) he could have been trumped by Rosie O'Donnell in a buffet line.Back on topic. Yes I believe that Barry is a great player but he blows his horn way too much. After all if you are so great why do you feel the need to make sure that you let anyone you come in contact with know that you feel that you are gods gift to poker? (which he has all but said)

[KowboyKoop 0]

look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....ss if you don't like it

Well if we are talking about someone who is best all around at what they do then Dion is a poor example as he was one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen. He was FAST and pretty decent at covering but when it came to tackling (which is rather important as a DB) he could have been trumped by Rosie O'Donnell in a buffet line.Back on topic. Yes I believe that Barry is a great player but he blows his horn way too much. After all if you are so great why do you feel the need to make sure that you let anyone you come in contact with know that you feel that you are gods gift to poker? (which he has all but said)

He was a "pretty decent' at covering people...uh, in his prime, Dieon completely eliminated the other team's #1 receiver. I don't mean he held him to a below average performance...he made the receiver a total non-factor in the game. Teams wouldn't even CONSIDER throwing the ball to whomever Sanders was covering. He was THE greatest corner of his era, bar none....thus, he was the best

[blueodum 0]

The idea that any player who has not spent years playing live poker stepping into and beating the big mixed game is ludicrous. Online poker will never be able to completely prepare you for high-stakes live cash games. It would be like taking the best 5-pin bowlers in the world and pitting them against the best 10-pin bowlers in the world. They wouldn't stand a chance, though the most talented would adapt if they put in the time and effort.That's my position on this issue: that there are players who've played mostly online that have the potential to succeed at high-stakes live cash games. But that is not the same as being able to do it now, nor is it the same thing as being likely to do it one day.Very few young players play all the games live anymore with any sort of regularity. To hack it in the big game, you can't have a weak game. I don't think we'll see more than a few players younger than Ivey play in the big game on a regular basis. There isn't much of an upside, since you are playing the best in the world and there are no TV cameras on. Playing HE cash games and tournaments, where there are many bad players is far easier money. Only those young players with talent, discipline and massive egos are even going to attempt the big game in a serious way.

[Meatwad 0]

look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....ss if you don't like it

Well if we are talking about someone who is best all around at what they do then Dion is a poor example as he was one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen. He was FAST and pretty decent at covering but when it came to tackling (which is rather important as a DB) he could have been trumped by Rosie O'Donnell in a buffet line.Back on topic. Yes I believe that Barry is a great player but he blows his horn way too much. After all if you are so great why do you feel the need to make sure that you let anyone you come in contact with know that you feel that you are gods gift to poker? (which he has all but said)

BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS HALL OF FAME CALIBER BASEBALL CAREER WHERE HE HIT...ummm...BUT HE STOLE...errr...WELL HE DUMPED ALL THAT WATER ON Tim McCarver! Well seeing how I don't have any qualifications at all to speculate on the big thread I'm well qualified to authoratively state facts pertaining to the contents of Greenstein's comments in this forum...GOTCHA!

[KowboyKoop 0]

The idea that any player who has not spent years playing live poker stepping into and beating the big mixed game is ludicrous.  Online poker will never be able to completely prepare you for high-stakes live cash games. It would be like taking the best 5-pin bowlers in the world and pitting them against the best 10-pin bowlers in the world. They wouldn't stand a chance, though the most talented would adapt if they put in the time and effort.That's my position on this issue: that there are players who've played mostly online that have the potential to succeed at high-stakes live cash games. But that is not the same as being able to do it now, nor is it the same thing as being likely to do it one day.Very few young players play all the games live anymore with any sort of regularity. To hack it in the big game, you can't have a weak game. I don't think we'll see more than a few players younger than Ivey play in the big game on a regular basis. There isn't much of an upside, since you are playing the best in the world and there are no TV cameras on. Playing HE cash games and tournaments, where there are many bad players is far easier money. Only those young players with talent, discipline and massive egos are even going to attempt the big game in a serious way.

Once again, the exact same thing I have been saying and the exact same thing I have been getting flamed for. Thank you very much for your brilliant post. You are spot on on all your points. Top Draw.

[RyanM 0]

I dunno man, I agree with Barry - although I will say this: He's a poker player, a winning one at that (if you believe him, one of the most winningest of all time), so where's his hustle? I read on this board poker isn't a gunfight - you're not trying to beat the best, you're trying to crush the worst. So why isn't he inviting people to play in the big game instead of acting like it's an honor to play in it?

[KowboyKoop 0]

I dunno man, I agree with Barry - although I will say this: He's a poker player, a winning one at that (if you believe him, one of the most winningest of all time), so where's his hustle? I read on this board poker isn't a gunfight - you're not trying to beat the best, you're trying to crush the worst. So why isn't he inviting people to play in the big game instead of acting like it's an honor to play in it?

well, in a way, his arrogance could maybe prompt some younger players who aren't ready for the Big Game to try and "shut him up" by stepping into the Big Game and playing him....just a theory

[lboarts 0]

1. How many games do they mix in the big game?2. In order to master every game online, how long would it take the best online players to master each one?3. Now how long would it take them altoghether to have them all mastered?4. Are all of the games being mixed in the big game offered online?5. Could someone out there be playing every one of these? (If so, at what frequency do they change the game, I wonder.)6. If someone were to master every game by playing them online, could they convert to live at a large increase in stakes (mentally, physically's just a monetary issue)?7. Are mixed games offered online, and if so, what games and stakes?8. Will the big game one day be held online? (I heard a rumor Gus' visa only allowed him in the US on a limited basis, which is why he's not playing in the big game as much as he may want. It's been a couple weeks since hearing that and I don't remember the source, so take it for what its worth, just a rumor.)9. Is NLHE just the first part of this current poker boom? 10. Could mixed games online be the next phase of this boom?Hmmmmmmmm.

[InsanityCubed 0]

Let me restate an earlier point with an analogy. In the NFL right now, there are at least 8 starting QBs in the league who aren't even serviceable quarterbacks. There is no doubt in my mind that there are 30+ people in the world capable of playing QB in the NFL at a competent level. Many of these people have never had the opportunity and/or the desire to do so. To say that there are not people out there capable of quarterbacking an NFL team right now is a fallacy. There are simply too many people with the athletic ability and intelligence out there to believe otherwise. The same applies to poker, there are people out there capable of playing in the big game that do not play, either by choice or circumstance. Therefore, Greenstein's statement is false, but it does not make him arrogant for saying it. In a purely logical sense, he is making too large a generalization for it to be true.

[Batch 0]

I hit the powerball for 100 million....I AM playing in the BIG GAME...so he is wrong.   :wink:

I know of 1 guy that could hold his own there.I couldn't.But if i hit powerball I would.Wonder why lindgren or cunningham or even phillips haven't taken a shot there.I bet if or when cunningham plays in that game he wins.Lindgren,probably not.Phillips.HMMMMMMM.I bet he could stay about par in that game.THOUGHTS?AND do you think their could be any collusion in that game?

[KowboyKoop 0]

I hit the powerball for 100 million....I AM playing in the BIG GAME...so he is wrong.   :wink:

I know of 1 guy that could hold his own there.I couldn't.But if i hit powerball I would.Wonder why lindgren or cunningham or even phillips haven't taken a shot there.I bet if or when cunningham plays in that game he wins.Lindgren,probably not.Phillips.HMMMMMMM.I bet he could stay about par in that game.THOUGHTS?AND do you think their could be any collusion in that game?

What makes you think these players are MASTERS of every single poker game, the fact that you like them and have seen them on TV??? I don't know about any of these....

[SuM827 0]

2.  In order to master every game online, how long would it take the best online players to master each one?3.  Now how long would it take them altoghether to have them all mastered?

WTF are you talking about, "Master games"? what separates big game players from everyone else is they are good at all the games, while most other pros are simply competant. But the big difference is that their cards don't matter much because they just play the other players at the table.

[CaneBrain 95]

look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....ss if you don't like it

Well if we are talking about someone who is best all around at what they do then Dion is a poor example as he was one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen. He was FAST and pretty decent at covering but when it came to tackling (which is rather important as a DB) he could have been trumped by Rosie O'Donnell in a buffet line.Back on topic. Yes I believe that Barry is a great player but he blows his horn way too much. After all if you are so great why do you feel the need to make sure that you let anyone you come in contact with know that you feel that you are gods gift to poker? (which he has all but said)

He was a "pretty decent' at covering people...uh, in his prime, Dieon completely eliminated the other team's #1 receiver. I don't mean he held him to a below average performance...he made the receiver a total non-factor in the game. Teams wouldn't even CONSIDER throwing the ball to whomever Sanders was covering. He was THE greatest corner of his era, bar none....thus, he was the best

Never thought I would be agreeing with Kowboy!I mean come on buddy. come on. You could not have picked a worse example.Deion was a once a generation talent at CB. Complete lockdown corner. Special teams superstar. Took away half the field. It was not a coincidence that when he was on the 49ers they finally got over the hump against the Cowboys. He could shift the balance of power in a conference....thats how good he was.As for the tackling....he is a corner! He never had to tackle....because nobody ever threw at him.....and when they did there was no one to tackle because the WR didnt catch the ball! Nobody paid him to be a run stopper. They paid him to shut down #1 receivers and score on punt returns. People on here who know nothing about football would be better off not posting about football.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Man, looks like my responses are the ones that most people are agreeing with...maybe I am not such a douche after all..........F*CKIN W*NKERS!!!!!!

[turd ferguson 1]

Man, looks like my responses are the ones that most people are agreeing with...maybe I am not such a douche after all..........F*CKIN W*NKERS!!!!!!

Ok. Let's not get carried away here. sw

[brian67 0]

I can't believe there is so much argument about this. I honestly don't find myself agreeing with Greenstein all that often, but in this case I have to. Not only is online poker a far cry from the big game, but there are not even all that many players that are necessarily even competent in most games. On top of that I think he is talking about taking people where pretty much all of their experience comes from online, if that's the case then i don't see how anyone could even argue against Greenstein. If you play a lot of poker both live and online you would probably notice that you can adjust your game a lot for online play. You can be way more aggressive online, and play a much wider variety of hands, and this is all because the opponents are much less skilled. That of course isn't even to mention the difference in reading ability, in which the online player has a severe disadvantage. The best online players in the world belong in the biggest online games, and far away from the big game.

[AKS 0]

look at Dion Sanders he is as arrogant as they come.....but he was the best in the world at what he did....ss if you don't like it

Well if we are talking about someone who is best all around at what they do then Dion is a poor example as he was one of the worst tacklers I have ever seen. He was FAST and pretty decent at covering but when it came to tackling (which is rather important as a DB) he could have been trumped by Rosie O'Donnell in a buffet line.Back on topic. Yes I believe that Barry is a great player but he blows his horn way too much. After all if you are so great why do you feel the need to make sure that you let anyone you come in contact with know that you feel that you are gods gift to poker? (which he has all but said)

He was a "pretty decent' at covering people...uh, in his prime, Dieon completely eliminated the other team's #1 receiver. I don't mean he held him to a below average performance...he made the receiver a total non-factor in the game. Teams wouldn't even CONSIDER throwing the ball to whomever Sanders was covering. He was THE greatest corner of his era, bar none....thus, he was the best

Never thought I would be agreeing with Kowboy!I mean come on buddy. come on. You could not have picked a worse example.Deion was a once a generation talent at CB. Complete lockdown corner. Special teams superstar. Took away half the field. It was not a coincidence that when he was on the 49ers they finally got over the hump against the Cowboys. He could shift the balance of power in a conference....thats how good he was.As for the tackling....he is a corner! He never had to tackle....because nobody ever threw at him.....and when they did there was no one to tackle because the WR didnt catch the ball! Nobody paid him to be a run stopper. They paid him to shut down #1 receivers and score on punt returns. People on here who know nothing about football would be better off not posting about football.

I will admit he was a great corner and I did understate his cover abilities (mainly due to the fact that I hate him and the Cowgirls) I still think that he overstated his own greatness. As far as tackling goes yes a CB should still have some tackling ability of which he had NONE. Fact is when a pass was completed to the reciever he was covering if there wasn't a safety over the top then the chance of that reciever picking up A LOT of yards after the catch were very high as most of his ATTEMPTED tackles looked like he was afraid of breaking a nail. Disclaimer: I was rather drunk when I posted the original post and my hatred for him probably came out a little more then it should have. End of thread hijack.On topic I do think that it would be nice if Barry would tone down his rather condescending comments in regards to just about any poker player out there. We all know that he is one of the best players in the world. But hearing him basiclly state every 2 min. every time he is on TV or on-line is just getting rediculous.

[Staynerjohn 0]

This BIG GAME that some of you are refering to is played in the games around the tourney tables...the tourney tables are simply a draw for these big hitters to get the guys into the casinos that THINK they can play in the BIG GAME...ask Rene Agelille how he liked learning the big game with Johnny Chan and Jennifer Harmon as his teachers...how about to the tune of $250k per session? Sure, try and sit with them and their literally millions of hands of experience and good luck...me, I'll stay at my $20/40 table and enjoy earning my living as I learn...Cheers