"having some fun" with alan goering - wrong or not

[PhilHellmuth 0]

not trying to antagonize, daniel. just trying to suggest you might owe the poker world a better and more detailed explanation as to why you felt this wasn't wrong.additionally - i believe daniel is one of the best all around guys in poker and one of its classiest representatives.if you vote in this poll and are a friend of daniel's, are you "bein a pal" and not truely and objectively considering the question? if so, reconsider.and yes i know im not really phil hellmuth.

[jayistheman 0]

define "wrong"i definately wouldnt do it, and i dont think anyone should throw away 10k like that.but he's allowed, and it didnt hurt anyone.... it wasnt immoral.. just stupid IMO.

[caphair 0]

i voted for "you are sweating daniel's nuts"

[PhilHellmuth 0]

wrong = ethically wrong

[jayistheman 0]

in that case, as painfully stupid as i think it was... nothing wrong with it... unless u see it as chip dumping to alan.... i wasnt really thinkin about that.

[skoal_dip 0]

what happened?

[Allie 0]

what happened?

Read the "Negreanu eliminated" thread...and then read his blog.

[Suited_Up 2]

If he really had to go, he probably would have done it to anyone who raised. Turns out he was busted by someone else anyway. Stop acting like he was chip dumping. Just because he knows the guy? Please!

[jayistheman 0]

If he really had to go, he probably would have done it to anyone who raised.  Turns out he was busted by someone else anyway.  Stop acting like he was chip dumping.  Just because he knows the guy?  Please!

he quoted one of his reasons was that he likes alan.im not saying it was dumping, but then what is it?

[PhilHellmuth 0]

unless u see it as chip dumping to alan.... i wasnt really thinkin about that.

yes.if i was playing at a table and one guy was going for broke specifically against one other guy, i'd be p|ssed because one of those guys will inevitably and unnaturaly end up with a ton of chips that they did not earn and a big chipstack is ammo at a NL tourny table.

[Suited_Up 2]

If he really had to go, he probably would have done it to anyone who raised.  Turns out he was busted by someone else anyway.  Stop acting like he was chip dumping.  Just because he knows the guy?  Please!

he quoted one of his reasons was that he likes alan.im not saying it was dumping, but then what is it?

He said that as a thought after he saw the cards. That he was rooting for him cause he likes him. Chip dumping involves the thought of actually dumping your chips before the hand... running a race isn't chip dumping.

[jayistheman 0]

If he really had to go, he probably would have done it to anyone who raised.  Turns out he was busted by someone else anyway.  Stop acting like he was chip dumping.  Just because he knows the guy?  Please!

he quoted one of his reasons was that he likes alan.im not saying it was dumping, but then what is it?

He said that as a thought after he saw the cards. That he was rooting for him cause he likes him. Chip dumping involves the thought of actually dumping your chips before the hand... running a race isn't chip dumping.

is it ethical?

[Suited_Up 2]

If he really had to go, he probably would have done it to anyone who raised.  Turns out he was busted by someone else anyway.  Stop acting like he was chip dumping.  Just because he knows the guy?  Please!

he quoted one of his reasons was that he likes alan.im not saying it was dumping, but then what is it?

He said that as a thought after he saw the cards. That he was rooting for him cause he likes him. Chip dumping involves the thought of actually dumping your chips before the hand... running a race isn't chip dumping.

is it ethical?

I think it falls in a grey area. It's not unethical though, because I doubt it was planned to give the chips to someone specific. So it just comes down to whether you should just blow off your chips like that if you need to leave. And I think you can do whatever you like with your own chips.

[jayistheman 0]

I think it falls in a grey area.  It's not unethical though, because I doubt it was planned to give the chips to someone specific.  So it just comes down to whether you should just blow off your chips like that if you need to leave.  And I think you can do whatever you like with your own chips.

fair enough.i would still be angry, or at least feel at a bit of a disadvantage if i was another player at the table...and alan is one of the last people you would want to have that many chips.

[Suited_Up 2]

I think it falls in a grey area.  It's not unethical though, because I doubt it was planned to give the chips to someone specific.  So it just comes down to whether you should just blow off your chips like that if you need to leave.  And I think you can do whatever you like with your own chips.

fair enough.i would still be angry, or at least feel at a bit of a disadvantage if i was another player at the table...and alan is one of the last people you would want to have that many chips.

True... the guy with the QQ got a lil bit at least, lol.

[jayistheman 0]

heh.. yeah. man, what a gifti kinda wanna email daniel and ask him to pay my tuition.

[Petoria 0]

If you play any hand when someone raises, that is chip dumping. There could be an argument made that there was implied chip dumping whenever Alan entered the hand. Alan could've figured out that if he raises DN will reraise everytime with any hand. He's running a race, yes, but DN is at a significant disadvantage almost everytime. When you're purposely putting yourself in a bad position against one and only one person, it could be constrewed as chip dumping.What if he was doing this against an unknown player who has all his money riding on this one tournament? Would it be ethical then? What if DN had a stake in Alan or Alan had a stake in DN?The whole thing just seems a bit too shady for me, and too close to the line between right and wrong. Was he having fun? Yes. Is that all that seems to matter? Apparently. I know that I would report the incident to the tournament director had it happened at my table, if DN had announced his intentions. This was apparently a "posthumous" admission of guilt, and should be reviewed by some sort of governing body in the poker world. Much like the NBA reviews certain fouls to determine if a suspension is warranted.

[Loismustdie 0]

Ever bought into a tournament, remembered something you needed to do or somewhere you needed to be, or your buddys call with some sort of plan and you tell the table " Hey, gotta go, who wants em? " I have. There is no difference.

[scottyno 0]

DN paid the entry fee, and therefore if he wants to intentionally donk all his chips off he's entitled. I think its stupid and "wrong" in the sense that why bother entering the tourney if you're basically going to give your chips away, but I don't think theres anything unethical about it. Its something I would never do in a tourney that big, but then again I dont have the kind of money where I can just throw 10k away to have a little fun.

[jjdylan 0]

wait....wait...wait....wait....daniel still plays poker????

[No_Limit_Pro 0]

well, it seems as if daniel has reached a level of nonchalance or even complete disregard for certain games or environments now...In some ways, he's earned it. He has enough $ where these tournaments don't make or break him. I think even without other factors (personal matters) the low amount of entrants and low prize pool probably didn't entice him too much. Is that wrong or bad? maybe so...has he earned it? probably...is it an easy excuse for any tourney he busts out of now? "I wasn't focused...I really just didn't feel comfortable...etc etc"Yeah, but does it matter at this point? I don't think Daniel will benefit or suffer much from any tourney win from now on...he's playing 500k heads up games...In donking off his remaining chips, it seems that people misinterpreted his intent. He was not trying to feed Goehring, but rather play around with him with no particular concern whether he won or not. I don't think anything terrible has been committed but it is a bit dissapointing to see Daniel bust out so often so early these days.Final thought: In some ways, we're all guilty of donking off chips in tourneys at some point. We'll do it in $1 to $500 tourneys depending on our financial situations. I've fallen asleep while being the chip leader of a stud tourney that was $50 on stars. I've dumped chips to go out to drink in $20-$30 multis. Sometimes I'll play back at someone I know is strong with a garbage hand if I need to go somewhere and see if I happen to outdraw him. I think many of us are guilty of this at some level.

[looshle 6]

Ever bought into a tournament, remembered something you needed to do or somewhere you needed to be, or your buddys call with some sort of plan and you tell the table " Hey, gotta go, who wants em? "  I have. There is no difference.

[jayistheman 0]

Ever bought into a tournament, remembered something you needed to do or somewhere you needed to be, or your buddys call with some sort of plan and you tell the table " Hey, gotta go, who wants em? "  I have. There is no difference.

thats not right though.any one player who gets them has gotten an unfair advantage.

[looshle 6]

Ever bought into a tournament, remembered something you needed to do or somewhere you needed to be, or your buddys call with some sort of plan and you tell the table " Hey, gotta go, who wants em? "  I have. There is no difference.

thats not right though.any one player who gets them has gotten an unfair advantage.

And innocent people get killed every day.Life's unfair. It's not cheating, colluding, or unethical. DN bought into a tourney, realized he had more important things to attend to, and basically said "Fuck it" I've done the exact same thing as I'm sure most everyone else has. He wasn't raising, having a buddy come over the top so he could fold and give his chips away. He was re-reaising huge, putting the pressure on, and forcing whoever to play a big pot when the blinds are extremely small. I'm sure Alan DIDN'T want to play a big pot at this point in the tourney. This is not - in any way- even close to dumping chips.

[Loismustdie 0]

Ever bought into a tournament, remembered something you needed to do or somewhere you needed to be, or your buddys call with some sort of plan and you tell the table " Hey, gotta go, who wants em? "  I have. There is no difference.

thats not right though.any one player who gets them has gotten an unfair advantage.

Not to be juvenile, but this seems to fall under the why don't you cry about it area of life- seriously, it is not a big deal. If somebody does that and you have a hand you have no problem with it I guarantee you.