aces and kings: dumbest poker book ever?

[keith crime 8]

I'm reading this profile of chris ferguson and the authors make the unbelievable claim that Ferguson's game theory expertise told him to call TJ Cloutier's all in at the wsop finalCloutier had AQ Ferguson had A9 and sucked out on the river"While most players would be loathe to risk an entire tournament on Ace 9 Ferguson saw it differently. According the the precepts of game theory its a bigger mistake to fold a potentially winning hand than it is to stay in with a potentially losing hand." What?

[Mister Hand 0]

I think the authors were reaching a bit there. Ferguson has said that he felt he was being outplayed heads up, so even though he didn't think his A-9 was the best hand after TJ reraised him all-in, he thought his chances of winning were better by calling there and hoping to outdraw TJ than they would have been by folding and playing on with fewer chips against a more skilled opponent. Now you could translate that line of thinking into game theory...but if that's what the authors were trying to do, I don't think they succeeded in the sentence you quoted.

[dna4ever 2]

i really enjoyed the book as a whole; especially found the Men the Master and Howard Lederer chapters interesting.

[pokepoke1967 0]

Is it true that Johnny Moss was not included? How can that be?

[dank773 0]

I haven't read this book yet, but I just finished Positively 5th Street (I know I'm a few years behind the times), where the detail some of the heads up hands between Jesus and T.J., looks like T.J. outplayed him the whole time, but Ferguson sucked out twice with T.J. in good position to win. And I take it from this thread that Aces and Kings isn't worth reading? Next on my list is One of a Kind.

[Drum Infected 0]

still debating to get this aces or kings or the stu ungar book. Hmmm

[keith crime 8]

Just finished the Unger book I thought it was really interestingAlso from what it said the last time Unger played cards he was at a no limit table and was the fish - book said Daniel was at the table - would love to hear about it

[pokepoke1967 0]

Did you know that those scum bag murderers got their convictions overturned last year? Mcmannus needs to write a new chapter for that book.

[dank773 0]

Yeah, I heard about them getting out. I have an edition that includes a chapter after their original conviction was overturned, but nothing about the results of the second trial. You would think that they would have an unfortunate "accident" one of these days. I had some free gift cards to Barnes and Noble, and I went with my girlfriend to buy some books, after picking up 5th Street and One of a Kind, my girlfriend said to me, "Are you kidding me? You play poker constantly, and you still need to buy poker books?"

[justblaze 0]

I'm reading this profile of chris ferguson and the authors make the unbelievable claim that Ferguson's game theory expertise told him to call TJ Cloutier's all in at the wsop finalCloutier had AQ Ferguson had A9 and sucked out on the river"While most players would be loathe to risk an entire tournament on Ace 9 Ferguson saw it differently. According the the precepts of game theory its a bigger mistake to fold a potentially winning hand than it is to stay in with a potentially losing hand."  What?

its all about hand ranges, and not wanting to get involved postflop. game theory is a pretty complex area of math.

[dna4ever 2]

I haven't read this book yet, but I just finished Positively 5th Street

How was that. I have it on order with pokersourceonline right now.I also noticed Pokerstars FPP store added some new books. I been looking for something to spend some of my points on so ordered the Poker MBA and Chris Moneymakers book from there yesterday. I still havent finished Super System II or the Professor, Banker, and Suicide King books yet. Ahhhhhh, so many books, so little time.

[keith crime 8]

its all about hand ranges, and not wanting to get involved postflop. game theory is a pretty complex area of math.

I studied game theory but i don't remember the part telling you to bet a world title as a 3-1 dog

[heisthejuan 0]

I had some free gift cards to Barnes and Noble, and I went with my girlfriend to buy some books, after picking up 5th Street and One of a Kind, my girlfriend said to me, "Are you kidding me?  You play poker constantly, and you still need to buy poker books?"

Sounds like a girlfriend.

[alf13 0]

The book was also grossly inaccurate describing styles......The book actually had a chapter on Phil Hellmuth and his ULTRA conservative style...Have these people ever seen him play? Ever?

[keith crime 8]

I did see the quote where phil bragged that he'd be folding aces heads up one day

[HurricaneKyle 0]

Phil takes an unusual amount of joy in throwing away 4-1 advantages.

[dank773 0]

5th Street was pretty interesting. He rambles on a bit from time to time, but the areas about the Main Event and the murder will keep you into it. I'll probably get to The Professor, banker... after I'm done with One of a Kind. Did anyone read Bad Beats and Lucky Draws by Phil? That's pretty good, discusses some interesting hands from his career.

[rocksquid 50]

I enjoyed the writing of Aces and Kings, it was a quick and interesting read. I have just started reading The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King about Andy Beal and his adventures in the Big Game. First part was how Ted Forrest wandered into the game without knowing Chip Reese was playing for a consortium of other pros and took 1.6 million from Beal. Looks like it is going to be a fun read.

[SuM827 0]

Aces and Kings sucked, it could have been written with anyone that had access to google, with the aid of some old RGP stuff. Worthless.

[pokerloser 0]

Dumbest thing I ever read the first page of. It made good kindling tho.

[r18 0]

its all about hand ranges, and not wanting to get involved postflop. game theory is a pretty complex area of math.

I studied game theory but i don't remember the part telling you to bet a world title as a 3-1 dog

Ferguson's Ace Nine was better than a random hand.Obviously if Chris knew Cloutier had an ace with a higher kicker, he wouldn't pick that spot to get all his chips in.However if Cloutier had held a small pocket pair then it's a coinflip, which would definitely be proper odds to take if feel you're playing against a superior opponent.

[speedz99 145]

The book was also grossly inaccurate describing styles......The book actually had a chapter on Phil Hellmuth and his ULTRA conservative style...Have these people ever seen him play?  Ever?

Are you being sarcastic? I feel like you post a lot about the pros, so you should know that Hellmuth is a very tight player.

[alf13 0]

The book was also grossly inaccurate describing styles......The book actually had a chapter on Phil Hellmuth and his ULTRA conservative style...Have these people ever seen him play?  Ever?

Are you being sarcastic? I feel like you post a lot about the pros, so you should know that Hellmuth is a very tight player.

He is hardly a tight player.....I would say that he plays 3 out of 10 hands on average and when comfortable in chips around 45%....He plays tons of small pots....He is not a Gus Hansen or Danny N type player, but trust me....he plays alot of hands...

[solderz 0]

Depending on who he is playing, Hellmuth can be extremely tight. Especially heads up. He is aggressive when he has a hand, but plays less of them than most.

[SuM827 0]

At the 2004 WSOP, he was playing like 7 out of 10 hands he got. He's not tight when it comes to hand selection, but he's quick to get off a hand that may be second best.