outsider13 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Fwiw Dixie, you get what you are getting because you let people get to you. Ask Rose how to deal with the men around here. I don't mean any hard feelings at all, and I bet neither do most here. They just like needling people who let them, and like drama. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Wow, DD going on a rampage ITT.Let me first start by saying that I really never HAVE heard of effective blinds before. There was nothing sarcastic in my posts when I questioned what it was because I (and VB as well) have never heard of it. No one is to fault there.You said "all the comments are mostly vague smartass replies instead of people properly explaining themselves" but have you bothered to look at your own posts? With respect to the 44 hand, you made vague comments about how someone you talk to told you it was right to fold. You didn't offer any analysis or any in-depth reasoning as to WHY it was bad, and you still haven't. You have ONLY said you are right. Others have shown why they find it to be correct on their programs and I have provided my reasoning behind the shove, but you just have said "it is right to fold." Sick fucking explanation there.As for the effective blind, you never once explained what it was since it was obvious some people in here (myself included) have never heard of it before. Well, I guess you finally did explain it by saying it somewhat related to M (sorta...obv M is the grand total) but that wasn't until you decided to rant.I could give you the "grow tough skin" spiel but you're a smart girl and you shouldn't need it.People give you a hard time because you are doing exactly what you are preaching against and they mock you for it, and I think it probably is deserving. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 you guys are so bad, you obviously met your match in Dixie and she can talk the walk. There are times I am ashamed of knowing some of you, times like this. boys will be boys but some of you never do grow up, quite sad actuallyWhat the **** does this even mean lol.And, no, I don't want an actual explanation from you, Rose. I am just saying that makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Fargo you are right but I did say many times I thought it was a close spot, even a spot where making a negative EV play could be the best play, and I was interested in your thinking because I would have folded there. I believe I stated, if I didn't I meant to, that I think folding in those spots might be a weakness in my game. I actually looked at this hand again in Wiz with a friend who's really good with wiz and changing the calling ranges very slightly make the difference in a push or a fold but it is so close, as I said before, it's not really bad. I didn't mention it because I didn't really want to bring it up again. You did explain your thinking and it made sense and I learned from it and I appreciated it. I don't have any problem with anything you've said as a matter of fact. I was not referring to you or most of the others but a few of the comments were mean and unnecessary, particularly tehoe and donk4life's comments. I've had time to cool off and I like most of the people on this forum and I feel I can learn from many of you. So I'm not going to let a few assholes who I can just ignore run me off. So as outsider said, FCK OFF! Link to post Share on other sites
Good Tom Hunting 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Tried to find you on Stars but couldn't so checked back to see how you did! Maybe I can say good game Tom without getting flamed!Thanks Dixie. And no, you can't. (toughguytom on stars) Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 What the **** does this even mean lol.And, no, I don't want an actual explanation from you, Rose. I am just saying that makes no sense.Just saying, what we know and what they teach at PokerVt is different, Lisa can talk poker 100% better than I, I respect her opinions as I do some of the guys here, there are different theories and aspects of the game that I just started to learn from Fluff and by using my HUD so some of this is now making sense where it wasn't before. We are finally able to discussed hands more openly with some logic and some decent discussions and yeah a few of you want to blow it out of the water Well f uck you, she tries to bring the caliber of this forum up to where it should be with strategy discussing hands. You boys can make fun of me all you want but finally we get the talk, and have open discussions were they should be and some of you want to ****in blow it. there are times not all of us will agree on how to play a hand but the talking and discussing of the hands makes it interesting to see the logic behind it, and see perhaps we could play a hand differentlyNever mind now you guys got me hot under the collar, I get home from a live cash session up $820.00 and I come on to see shit hit the water. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I said I didn't want an explanation lol.I was saying that I don't know how her venting means we met our match. That makes no sense.Carry on! Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I said I didn't want an explanation lol.I was saying that I don't know how her venting means we met our match. That makes no sense.Carry on!it means she brings fresh ideas and a different prospective of the game in which she learned and is passing on some thoughts, pretty dam enlightening here lolI finally get my game to where I am happy with it, with some decent cashesjust saying if it wasn't for the forum here and Justin, Sky, Davide, and a few others my game would still be shitty. Its far from perfect but from 4 years ago, the last 6 months my game grew 90%, and there always will be room for it to grow.On that note I am heading to bed, good night everyone Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 On another note, Donk is the nicest person I know so it says something if he is being mean. Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 LMAO Rose! Damn! Shit in the water, too funny! As for effective BB so I'm sure to explain myself well (well the best I can, I'm certainly no expert so excuse any booboos), while M is the orbits you can play without blinding out, effective BB, which only comes into play after antes kick in, takes the ante X players at the table + the blinds and divides then to get an effective BB (like CorvairShaggy explained). With 10 effective you either push or fold because your stack is getting to short to do otherwise. If you just look at your actual BB and wait until you are at 10 actual BB, when antes are in play, to switch to push/fold you will find yourself making raises and being left really short if you lose the hand, a realize you're screwed. At 11 to 15 effective BB you are in an area where it will often be best to shove but you aren't in such a dangerous area so you can fold some hands and wait for a better spot. Same as you do with M zones. For some, effective BB is just an easier way to look at it and figure it and it's the way I've been taught. Coolest thing is now I have it on my PT3 HUD and I can see my effective and the other players effective so I don't even have to do the Math. You can do this with M too if that's what you use. I don't know if HEM has this or not. With the A4 (think that's what it was) you had 14.5 effective BB so any play other than shove would have been too risky so your push was good, unless the BB was a total moron who you knew would call with like 50+% or something and still ace high is probably a good shove there BVB (didn't wiz it but it seems standard enough). With the fours you were somewhere around 16 or so effective so you could have waited, if you wanted to, for a better spot but shoving wasn't bad either, just more optional with your stack. Like effective stacks the effective BB of those left to act come into play as well and even if you have 30 effective on button but everyone left is at or under 10 effective BB then your best play is shove or fold. It's just easier for me to think in effective BB. Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 GUYS SHUT UP YOU'RE CLEARLY NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK YOU ARE AND DIAMOND DIXI HAS POKERVT TRAINING AND TALKS TO THE POKERVT COACHES THEREFORE WE SHOULD BOW TO HER./run-on sentence.Maybe I'm wrong but I took this as being pretty nasty. Pretty sure it was meant to be.Even though I've stated in this thread more than once that I don't think I'm any great poker player.And YEAH that's one thing great about PokerVT, members have a lot of opportunity through the forum and Skype chatrooms, etc. to talk with the pros but that still doesn't make me great. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 He is more just on your case because you just said "this is right" and failed to provide reasoning, which isn't good enough. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 she can talk the walk.Love you so much Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 You all can kiss my ass! I'm sorry I was stupid enough to take the bait and reply to Kobe's post. I thought this forum was better than 2+2 but you all are just as bad or worse! I've said many times I certainly don't consider myself a great player in anyway. I work on my game and try to learn and improve. I joined PokerVT to learn and while I've learned a lot from the pros and other members there I still have plenty to learn. Good forums are good place to learn from better players. I wrongly thought this forum had good players whom I could learn from, unfortunately I have been proven wrong! While there are plenty of good players (and a few nice people) here there are too many people here who prefer to be total assholes to others instead of being helpful. I will not be posting any more, other than my $4.40 games in the tournament tracker, because even though I would prefer not to finish I committed to Rose to be her teammate and I don't bale on people. I can finish the challenge without having anything to do with this forum.If anyone is wondering why participation is down on FCP I think this pretty answers the question. CovairShaggy, thank you for trying to explain to these know it alls. Effective big blinds is just another way of looking at M. PokerTracker3 HUD can even be set with a either an M stat or an effective BB stat displayed on your HUD. M is already in the stats but there is a formula you can put in to give your effective BB instead. I have no idea why Rose puts up with you all. I certainly don't intend to.this is an overreaction imo. Just sleep it off you will feel better in the morning. Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondDixie 12 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 @ King_Tanner, can I plead P.M.S. (Poker Moaning Syndrome)....and dammit Fargo, I said numerous times it was close and I could be wrong, how the hell many more times do I have to say it. You want me to write it on the board 100 times. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 @ King_Tanner, can I plead P.M.S. (Poker Moaning Syndrome)....and dammit Fargo, I said numerous times it was close and I could be wrong, how the hell many more times do I have to say it. You want me to write it on the board 100 times.What? I am not talking about right or wrong. I just said if you are going to SAY right or wrong you have to explain it. That is the point everyone is trying to make. You just want us to accept one side or the other without reasoning?At this point, this is all about explanations and NOT right and wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 yeah I mean I hope you don't leave, but if you do stay you need to grow some thicker skin. You are debating with guys who really know what they are talking about, and when you say something that doesn't make sense they are going to ask you to explain your reasoning. If you try to explain by not making sense even more they are going to make fun of you a little bit. I don't think anyone was going over the top the way they were teasing you.Also, I don't think donk4life's comment about PokerVT was mean spirited or anything. I think it is the general impression (not totally sure) that PokerVT is kind of a joke so he was making more fun of the site than he was of you, but who knows. And if he is making fun of you, who cares its the ****ing internet. Link to post Share on other sites
CoolHandKai 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 yeah I mean I hope you don't leave, but if you do stay you need to grow some thicker skin. You are debating with guys who really know what they are talking about, and when you say something that doesn't make sense they are going to ask you to explain your reasoning.Asking for the thought process behind it is perfectly reasonable. Just firing off "DiamondDumbass itt" (see page 10) on the other hand is not. That comment set the tone for the rest of the conversation. My advice to DiamondDixie would be to simply ignore the few people, who fire off "lol wat?" style one liners. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Asking for the thought process behind it is perfectly reasonable. Just firing off "DiamondDumbass itt" (see page 10) on the other hand is not. That comment set the tone for the rest of the conversation. My advice to DiamondDixie would be to simply ignore the few people, who fire off "lol wat?" style one liners.DD listen to what Fargo and King Tanner have said about the way to go about discussing hands and the the thought process behind them. If you see somebody make a play that you don't agree with before making a "wow what did you do there" post maybe try and frame it as a question to them along the lines of "that isn't something that I would usually do can you tell me why you made that play".Also just ignore the troll one liners and figure out who you can have a reasonable conversation with. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 lol, i just get tired of her coming off like a know-it-all constantly in these forums. and yes, you've mentioned before you're part of pokervt and know the coaches, which for some reason makes you think you're a queen of poker. I don't care what you say, you come off as extremely snobby.if you want to have a constructive strat discussion, try coming off as a little less patronizing. you have this idea in your head that "you're a woman so you have to act tougher and defend yourself because the "boys" in here are going to eat you alive", which is complete bullshit.there have been many hands you've chimed in about that completely blow my mind. but when we try to justify how it's the right play, you give some counter-response that is completely wrong but you continue to defend it. Quite frankly, that's what makes a lot of us just come off as dicks, because there have been soooooooooo many people who justify horrible plays with flawed reasoning. it gets old, so we resort to trolling because a.) it's funny, b.) it's easier than continuing to argue with you. i hate hate hate hate hate being arrogant, but myself and others have been winning players for a number of years now, with pretty decent win-rates at higher stakes. but god forbid you listen to people like us, because you're a woman and rose and has planted this idea in your head you have to be a LIONESS to keep away the hungry Hyenas. last night i was somewhat drunk so i probably wouldn't have said that sober, so i apologize. Link to post Share on other sites
MaxStPolish 4 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i will say, however, that you do have an advanced thought process for a low limit player. i just think sometimes you argue just to argue. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I am quite drunk, just thought I'd preface this post with that.I think donk4life pretty much hit the nail on the head here. There are a lot of guys who have come and gone on FCP since I've been a member who are always convinced of them being right and refuse to accept guidance; I can't say I was much differnt back then (nor am I that much different now tbh). But it does lead to a lot of bullshit in this forum which gets tough to deal with. Nobody posts in the strat threads anymore, particularly tourney strat (movin' on up thread aside, which is fantastic. Kingjames deserves member of the month again) and so it really seems like nobody is here to learn. There are a bunch of players who are really good still hanging around the site still, but it has turned into a bit of a clique because of a lot of them interact outside of this forum. This turns into people not taking anything too seriously, peers, other posters, themselves, etc. Not going to try and excuse all our actions because I know I'm not the nicest kid on the block these days, but we treat just about everyone the same. If you do something silly you're gonna be ridiculed, if you do something sensible you're still going to be ridiculed, whether you're tehtoe or mercury. If you're willing to learn and try and mutually make everyone better then that's great I'm always trying to get better and I think discussion and working with peers is one of the most effective methods of that. FCP can prove a medium for that, but really it's a bit like rose says: boys will be boys. I don't think it's actually because we're all boys, but it's as apt a phrase as any I can think of right now. I have actually heard of effective blinds before, and I'm sorry for not being around to back you up Dixie, because it is actually quite a useful way of measuring a stack and whether to push/fold/raise etc. But my natural response when people mention an effective stack is going to be the smaller stack remaining in the hand, a remnant from a cash game upbringing, which most of us from the boys club have. It shouldn't matter though, I hope you don't take your ball and go home because I do like fresh blood around here, even if it's just so I can poke fun at more people I really have no idea where I'm going with this, so just imagine this post as a supplement to donk4life's, it's just drunker and with better punctuation Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 i will say, however, that you do have an advanced thought process for a low limit player. i just think sometimes you argue just to argue.My hgod you are an arrogant prick Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I've never seen babylon or donk4 type so much.... Link to post Share on other sites
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