Random Baseball Observations

[mrdannyg 274]

I found this:According to the umpiring supervisor at Fenway Park, you cannot argue a "step-balk." It's an automatic ejection. It's the same as arguing balls and strikes -- automatic ejection.

Fair enough. Though he should at least get an explanation!

[digitalmonkey 929]

Fair enough. Though he should at least get an explanation!

Agreed! That probably had a lot to do with why he was so hot. Perhaps Hernandez needs some Crisis Prevention Intervention training. If he explains the situation to Francona there's a chance Francona is much less upset. Then it's simply a matter of informing Francona that he has no choice but to toss him as it is an auto-eject.

[timwakefield 68]

Joe West made a controversial ejection of Joe Maddon one week ago, hugged Tito Francona 3 days ago after the almost-as-bad Hernandez ejected him, and tossed Ron Gardenhire last night. Larry Brown says fire him

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Joe West made a controversial ejection of Joe Maddon one week ago, Tito Francona 3 days ago, and Ron Gardenhire last night. Larry Brown says fire him

"Umpires frequently miss calls, but luckily they have four to a crew; there’s always an opportunity to appeal to try and improve judgment. The umpire’s goal should be to get the call right, not to be the biggest jerk in the game. Sadly, the egomaniac Joe West prefers to be the story instead of being accurate."In that first link, that's exactly what he did. He made the call, it was argued against, he asked for help, he changed his call. I didn't really have a problem with the Gardenhire ejection either.I'm not saying Cowboy Joe is a good umpire, but I think there are probably better examples than those.

[timwakefield 68]

"Umpires frequently miss calls, but luckily they have four to a crew; there’s always an opportunity to appeal to try and improve judgment. The umpire’s goal should be to get the call right, not to be the biggest jerk in the game. Sadly, the egomaniac Joe West prefers to be the story instead of being accurate."In that first link, that's exactly what he did. He made the call, it was argued against, he asked for help, he changed his call. I didn't really have a problem with the Gardenhire ejection either.I'm not saying Cowboy Joe is a good umpire, but I think there are probably better examples than those.

Well those are just the three from this week. Certainly the best examples involve Mark Buehrle last year. I somewhat disagree with your analysis though. I would say, He made the call, it was argued against, he asked for help, he changed his call, the other manager came out to find out what had happened, West insta-ejected him. It's beside the point even that West got the call correct in the first place and should not have overturned it, but again that's not even the problem here. And same with the Gardenhire ejection - no explanation, no discussion, no placating the manager, just an insta-ejection. Gardenhire was literally asking West to confer with his 1B ump, perhaps because Gardenhire was unclear on whether it was a check-swing strike or a foul-tip. West wanted nothing to do with him and had no interest in explaining his call. He ejected Gardenhire as soon as he got to home plate.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I somewhat disagree with your analysis though. I would say, He made the call, it was argued against, he asked for help, he changed his call, the other manager came out to find out what had happened, West insta-ejected him. It's beside the point even that West got the call correct in the first place and should not have overturned it, but again that's not even the problem here.

Watch the clip again. That's not an "insta-ejection." He told him what happened, then he warned him, then he tossed him. It was quick though.

And same with the Gardenhire ejection - no explanation, no discussion, no placating the manager, just an insta-ejection. Gardenhire was literally asking West to confer with his 1B ump, perhaps because Gardenhire was unclear on whether it was a check-swing strike or a foul-tip. West wanted nothing to do with him and had no interest in explaining his call. He ejected Gardenhire as soon as he got to home plate.

Are you sure you're watching the same videos as me? After the check swing West stands up and clearly makes the foul tip call three times for everyone to see. Gardenhire comes out to argue, West stands there and lets him. Gardenhire leaves, but then comes back to argue some more at which point West ejects him. He let him say what he had to say and it wasn't until he came back for seconds that he tossed him and he didn't make a big show of it, so this is a really bad example of Attention-Whore West.

[timwakefield 68]

Watch the clip again. That's not an "insta-ejection." He told him what happened, then he warned him, then he tossed him. It was quick though.

Really? At 0:57 Maddon approaches West and begins speaking. At 1:04 he is ejected. In a situation where a call was reversed, I think it's completely unreasonable to not take a few seconds to explain to the manager what happened. 7 seconds is not long enough for Maddon to ask his questions and for West to answer them. In fact, he's clearly going to eject him from about 1:02, when West tells him to talk to the hand cuz the face ain't listening.

Are you sure you're watching the same videos as me? After the check swing West stands up and clearly makes the foul tip call three times for everyone to see. Gardenhire comes out to argue, West stands there and lets him. Gardenhire leaves, but then comes back to argue some more at which point West ejects him. He let him say what he had to say and it wasn't until he came back for seconds that he tossed him and he didn't make a big show of it, so this is a really bad example of Attention-Whore West.

That actually isn't what happened. The clip is not in real time. He was ejected before West "stood there and let him argue." I guess the live TV feed missed filming his ejection, so they went back and showed it after. He's ejected before he even gets to West. At 0:30 when we first see Gardenhire arguing with West, Gardy had already been ejected. We then see Gardy finish his spiel and walk back the dugout, and then they cut back to when Gardy first left the dugout (he only left the dugout once) and we see West eject him while he's still a good 10 feet away from him. The only reason West let him stand there and argue in his face was because he'd already ejected the man, so there wasn't much he could do about it. You are right that West very clearly made the foul-tip motion though.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I'm sure you are committing a bunch of logical fallacies, but since I don't like Joe West, I'll let it go this time.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Clearly, we need Oliver Stone to break it down.Back and to the left...back and to the left...back and to the left.

[timwakefield 68]

I'm sure you are committing a bunch of logical fallacies, but since I don't like Joe West, I'll let it go this time.

I think we can at least all agree that the way West intervened between Francona and Angel Hernandez (when Hernandez was the one who made the balk call and the Tito-ejection) was bizarre and unprofessional. Francona said afterward that he literally just wanted an explanation of what constituted that particular balk, perhaps so Wakefield could be advised not to do it again. It's not like Francona was violently angry and was going to physically attack Hernandez. The only reason he blew up and started screaming was because West came out of nowhere and got all in his face for no reason. West just decided that he wanted to be the one getting screamed at, rather than the ump who deserved it. At least Tito threw his gum at him (Hernandez). You'll note that in the video of the incident that I linked a few days ago, even the Twins announcers are unclear of where the balk was and were critical of West's actions.

[timwakefield 68]

Interesting follow-up from Francona, and he also says a few other actually-interesting things.

TORONTO -- Terry Francona confirmed before tonight's game against the Blue Jays he had been fined by Major League Baseball for his ejection from last Friday night's 9-2 loss to the Minnesota Twins at Fenway Park. Francona declined to reveal the amount of the fine but, during his weekly appearance on WEEI Wednesday afternoon, he indicated he had been fined "a little bit.''"It was handled and we move on,'' Francona told reporters before tonight's game against the Blue Jays."They actually had a pretty good sense of humor about it,'' Francona added. "I was giving Matt McKendry [a specialist with MLB's On-Field Operations] some [grief] about it. I said, `I'll pay you when I get to New York' [for this weekend's three-game set vs. the Yankees] and he said, `I don't want any Canadian money.' ''Francona was ejected by plate umpire Angel Hernandez in the second inning when Francona came out of the dugout to seek an explanation from Hernandez for his balk call against starter Tim Wakefield. Crew chief Joe West attempted to intercede and bumped Francona several times in an attempt to buffer Hernandez from Francona's heated attempts to seek an explanation.Francona said he didn't have any concerns about acing a possible suspension over the physical contact with West."No, I didn't think so, because the way things go, you hear pretty quick,'' he said. "If anything, I thought Joe should've fouled out after I took the charge.''There was no indication if any disciplinary had been taken against West, however.Asked if he felt it was the right way to handle it, Francona said, ``I don't know. I think some of our rules are antiquated. Like I know, for the longest time, they didn't put highlights or replays on the board and I know, for the longest time, it was for the umpire's safety."We've got 50,000 security people there and if I paid $300 for a ticket, I'd want to see a replay,'' Francona said. "You got an NBA game, you got to an NFL game, [there is video replays], so I don't know if I agree with that, but that's not my area, it's not my jurisdiction.''Asked if he felt public disclosure of any fines or sanctions against umpires would increase accountability, Francona said, "I'm sure there's arguments for both, but I don't know. I think sometimes the perception is maybe they're not [accountable], and I don't think that's the way it really is.''In the finale of the four-game series vs. the Twins Monday night, Hernandez called a balk on Alfredo Aceves from his first base umpire's position. It was the second time in the series and second time in as many outings Hernandez had called Aceves for a balk. This time, to Francona's astonishment, Hernandez signaled the Sox manager to come out of the Sox dugout so he could explain the call."He invited me,'' Francona said. "I was on the top step thinking, `He's reeling me in; he's going to throw me out as soon as I leave the top step.' I waited a minute, thinking, `Are you kidding me?' But I appreciated it, because he actually gave me a really good explanation and he said he explained it to Aceves, too, which is the way I think it should be.''

[digitalmonkey 929]

[slink 1]

More 'Country' Joe West shenanigans: Apparently he called a Padre runner out for leaving the bag early without even watching to see if he left the bag early. I guess Ol' Country Joe has ESP?http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/umpir...didnt-see/68884

[timwakefield 68]

More 'Country' Joe West shenanigans: Apparently he called a Padre runner out for leaving the bag early without even watching to see if he left the bag early. I guess Ol' Country Joe has ESP?http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/umpir...didnt-see/68884

Man, this is just becoming the 'Fire Joe West' thread. Here's video of him getting that call wrong. http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/video/play....ent_id=14908497Skip to about 0:30. I mean, lots of umpires get things wrong from time to time. It's impossible not to. But Joe West just does it in such a douchey way that it really makes everybody hate him. He gets calls wrong that he shouldn't have been calling in the first place.Larry Bowa and Harold Reynolds give their opinions on West

[timwakefield 68]

Pretty nice first career at-bat.Also, this is almost certainly the stupidest double-play I've ever seen.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Pretty nice first career at-bat.Also, this is almost certainly the stupidest double-play I've ever seen.

Are you using stupid in place of awesome or sick?

[NellaKreb 0]

Are you using stupid in place of awesome or sick?

+1He threw that backhand like a pimp. (not that I condone that sort of behavior... )

[timwakefield 68]

Are you using stupid in place of awesome or sick?

Stupid, ridiculous, retarded, unbelievable."He's getting a round of applause from the folks here in Chicago!"

[timwakefield 68]

Basically, I won't be satisfied until we play the Tigers and steal at least 3 bases off him.

I have been sated.

[timwakefield 68]

Astonishing catch by Adam Jones"Where's Willy?!"

[CaneBrain 95]

Giants GM Sabean bringing unprofessionalism to new heights.http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/m...590096/29764153

[timwakefield 68]

Giants GM Sabean bringing unprofessionalism to new heights.http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/m...590096/29764153

How do you guys feel about the play? I'm a little bit on the fence about it - at first it looked pretty clean but on further analysis, Posey wasn't really blocking the plate. I mean, part of his body was in front of part of the plate, but he wasn't in the "I'm blocking the plate" stance that catchers sometimes take when they have the ball or even when they're awaiting the throw. He wasn't standing directly in the third-base-line. And Cousins really launched into him.Obviously Sabean shouldn't be saying the nonsense he's been saying, but I think it might be wise of MLB to overhaul their collision-at-home rules, and make it more clear precisely what is and what isn't legal. Or actually, maybe I just need to read them.

[timwakefield 68]

Ridiculous game in Boston today. Oakland scored 4 in the 9th to tie it, during which Varitek (catching) and Papelbon (pitching) were both ejected for arguing with the umpire. Oakland scored 1 in the 11th, but so did Boston (on a 2-out rbi), and then we finally won it in 14. It was 2-0 Sox after 5, and the final score was 9-8! Thank God we won, cuz if we'd lost it would have been a really painful loss.

[digitalmonkey 929]

The same sort of thing is happening in hockey. The necessity of hits that have been accepted for years is being questioned. Perhaps I'm wrong but I always thought the runner could hit the catcher if the catcher was blocking the plate. If the catcher isn't blocking the plate and the runner still hits him then shouldn't it be interference?

[CaneBrain 95]

The same sort of thing is happening in hockey. The necessity of hits that have been accepted for years is being questioned. Perhaps I'm wrong but I always thought the runner could hit the catcher if the catcher was blocking the plate. If the catcher isn't blocking the plate and the runner still hits him then shouldn't it be interference?

Yes it would be. Of course that never happens because it makes no sense. If he isn't blocking the plate, there is no reason to hit him. Guy was trying to score, Posey blocked the plate, 100% legal hit. Giants are just whining because Posey is their star. It's pretty sad that they expect special treatment because their catcher is a big name.If they want to change the rule that's fine. I really don't care. But there is a reason no one from the MLB said a word to Cousins about the hit. 100% legal.