who is losing at online poker?

[jimjoachim 0]

It may seem like a stupid question but where are everyones profits coming from??I know that im winning and so is my mate. My kid brother is grinding it out in the micro games with my mates little bro recently taking down one of the big tournies on Ladrokes.The owner of the local club that I play and deal at claims to have started up the club with online winnings, so he is up too!!Everyone who plays at the club is constantly boasting about their recent online victories and all claim to be up over all.The poker sites themselves are up with amount the rake takes!!Most of the people who post here also seem to be winning!!So does anyone actually know of anyone who is consistantly losing??The only location I can see that our profits are coming from is the new players who are still learning. I know that until recently my dad was a consistant loser but has turned it all round in recent months.So, if all our money is coming from new players surely this cant last forever (Can it??) as the growth in online poker will eventually slow down.Or, are we all exagerating about how well we are doing??

[faketree 0]

It may seem like a stupid question but where are everyones profits coming from??I know that im winning and so is my mate. My kid brother is grinding it out in the micro games with my mates little bro recently taking down one of the big tournies on Ladrokes.The owner of the local club that I play and deal at claims to have started up the club with online winnings, so he is up too!!Everyone who plays at the club is constantly boasting about their recent online victories and all claim to be up over all.The poker sites themselves are up with amount the rake takes!!Most of the people who post here also seem to be winning!!So does anyone actually know of anyone who is consistantly losing??The only location I can see that our profits are coming from is the new players who are still learning. I know that until recently my dad was a consistant loser but has turned it all round in recent months.So, if all our money is coming from new players surely this cant last forever (Can it??) as the growth in online poker will eventually slow down.Or, are we all exagerating about how well we are doing??

this just shows me that you haven't been out to play live poker very much. if you did, you wouldn't need to ask where the losers are coming from. and they aren't only the new players. they are the players that have been playing for years and are perpetual losers. it doesn't matter how much money they lose from day to day, they're hoping for that one big score of a day when the cards fall the right way.the internet just makes it easier for the degenerates to play poker. its that simple.if you get a chance, go to a live cardroom and check out all the losers.WOW!

[speedz99 145]

Most of the players are on this forum because they are students of the game. People like us (well, maybe not me) reoresent a small fraction of the millions who play online.

[wingnut7 0]

poker players like to lie. i won 10 grand just last month. but seriously, there are literally MILLIONS of people playing online, the winning players will boast about it while the losing players say nothing.

[pokerplayer24 0]

Not to mention that really a lot of the losing players are the type that throw 1k online think they're awesome, lose it in a week and you never hear from them again.

[Hardrocker 0]

the internet just makes it easier for the degenerates to play poker. its that simple. if you get a chance, go to a live cardroom and check out all the losers. WOW!

True indeed!!! If you think internet players are bad, go to a cardroom.People calling 2 raises with 9-7 off, and calling to the river with a flop of A-K-7.You have to realize that most of the people on this forum are here to chat, but also to learn from other winning players. The losing players might join here and become better players, then be able to brag about their winnings.The best explanation I ever heard was from a losing player who said he used to play golf, but liked poker better. He said between memberships, clubs, etc. he would spend thousands per year. He said he could be a consistent loser playing poker and he would still come out ahead if he only golfed a few times a year with old clubs and just payed green fees.

[mjd 0]

My pokertracker says that 60% of my opponents are losing players. Just go to some of the low or mid limit tables on Party and watch sometime. Get some hand histories from the hands you're involved in when you play. It will all become clear.

[jimjoachim 0]

faketreeNot only do I visit cardrooms frequently, I work in one!(mentioned in original post)We get many consistant losers in there and I understand what your saying, however all who play online claim to be up!! even tho they have never cashed in the club once!!Most of them say they dont care about losing in the club as it is "all online profit anyway".Obviousley the losers are keeping quiet but there must be some truth in the argument newcomers are losing proportionatley more than those who have been playing for a while. And once the growth in online poker slows so to will the new so called "dead money".

[jimjoachim 0]

True indeed!!! If you think internet players are bad, go to a cardroom.People calling 2 raises with 9-7 off, and calling to the river with a flop of A-K-7..This is definatly true. I was down at the irish open last month and playing in one of the side games. 1-2 euro NLH3 limpers and I look at KK on the button. I raise to 12euro (was loose table and wanted to narrow field) and and get 5 callers including SB & BB. Flop comes 345rainbow and its checked to me. I bet pot (74euro) at it and get check raised all in for another 30. I call and guy (the BB) shows over K2o. He didnt hit his open ended straight draw (thankfully) and I take down nearly 300euro.Ive been called with some bad hands online but this takes the biscuit!!

[guacamole 0]

Part of it has to be players playing above their heads.It takes a lot of hands to determine whether you are a winning player at a certain limit, and not many players are willing to play 1000 hours at each level to see if they are a winner. Instead, they jump up a limit as soon as they go on a hot streak.Also, many people have dreams of becoming world class players and are in a big hurry to climb to the top. These guys contribute a lot of money to players who are willing to play at a more comfortable level. Even if you are a very successful player at the lower limits, if you start playing at a limit too far over your head you can lose everything you won and more (since the stakes are higher, naturally).

[Mr Monkey 0]

faketreeNot only do I visit cardrooms frequently, I work in one!(mentioned in original post)We get many consistant losers in there and I understand what your saying, however all who play online claim to be up!! even tho they have never cashed in the club once!!Most of them say they dont care about losing in the club as it is "all online profit anyway".Obviousley the losers are keeping quiet but there must be some truth in the argument newcomers are losing proportionatley more than those who have been playing for a while. And once the growth in online poker slows so to will the new so called "dead money".

most of the people who say they dont care about losing in the club because its all online profit are liars because they lose on line also. most people lose at poker whether its in a card club, casino or on line. these are the "break even or better" players who are actually long time losers. new players contribute to good players winnings but their was lots bad players before their is lots of bad players now and their will always be lots of bad players.

[bhughes77 0]

I play poker with a bunch of my friends in home game 's some of the best players at those games have not yet been able to become winning players online. 2 of those guys who are very respected players at these home games and make up my best competition, have bought into Party poker many times and lost their stake, and have pretty much given up the online poker thing... I'm sure there are many more of these cases that you don't hear about.To tell you the truth, I know more online losing players then I do winners. I also was a $600 loser in my 1st month online (July 2004) and it took me 4 months to get even and I am now booking consistent wins and prefer online play to those home games.I believe these forum's are a big help, definetly in my case and Im sure in others. My two freinds who are winning live players and losing online players dont take any time to join these forum's and read about poker.Take Care.

[WatersR 0]

I am in the position of knowing that I've consistently lost at certain types of poker, but have subsidized it with some huge MTT scores.To wit:I have 2 MTT wins ($7000, $4300), two second places (for $5900 and $4000) and two more cashes of over $1000. This represents about $24000 in winning in the past year. I am up $14000. Over half of the $10000 shortfall is of course, MTT entry fees. I, unfortunately only recently started tracking where I'm making money and where I'm losing it. I feel like I'm a net positive player in SnGs, but I'm not sure (which is why I've started tracking better). I've blown a lot in Steps and Satellites and larger MTTs which I've never made any serious money in (Yet?!?). After every big one, I seem to "donate" a bit back playing big limits trying to gain experience with a set amount that I'm willing to lose. I ALSO attribute about half of the $10000 to this phenomenon. Which means I think I'm a winning (SnG and ring game) player overall when you factor out the "experiements" and MTTs. That I'm a winning MTT player is evident to me. Any comments? Similar experiences?

[srharris22 0]

ok this goes back to daniels post about barry greinstein, who daniel claims only documents his wins vs his loses and thus says that he has "won' more money than anyone else over the past 5 years or so. That maybe true that he was WON more money (who really knows) but what is his NET INCOME? is that the right term, i am physical therapist not a CPA.ALso the human brain has an incredible ability to remember that incredible run on 1/2 where we won 50 bb in 2 hours, but does it recall the slow leak of 400 dollars over 2 weeks net? No, i have a lot of friends that brag about their latest big score, huge night online with a tourney win or place in a MTT, or their great night at a 50 dollar buy in NL ring game, but how about the other 4-5 weeks that you hear nothing from them?Specifically I have one friend that has won about 2200 in 3 months in 2 tourneys, one on paradise and 1 on UB, well I am sorry but i can promise you that total he is up only 500 or 700, and that is over those 3 months, he has never placed that high in another tourney before thus making him probably close to even or losing in the long haul of playing on line.but all he can talk about are his 2 big wins, while he has 300 dollars in his online account (some was taken out to pay bills this last time though).

[Kevin Garceau 0]

have bought into Party poker many times and lost their stake,

These are the people that beat the local "fun" games on a regular basis. They ahve knowledge of the game and are fairly aggresive and it pays off in a social setting. They then stick 100 bucks into online and sit at the 2/4 game. They lose it in the first or second night because they didnt have enough bankroll to handle the swings. They think its just bad luck and after winning a little more in home games they do it again. Lost it again.They have knowledge of the game but nothing of the subtle but important aspects of online poker. Bankroll management being one of them. They probably arent used to the crazy plays and calls which give big swings at the lower limits.

[Emptyeye 0]

I can proudly and truthfully claim to be up $16.74 on my initial $50 deposit at Stars. Not great, certainly, but considering I was down to about 80 CENTS at one point, I'm happy about it. Anyway, I think part of it, certainly, comes from "new" players who for whatever reason lose before they win (I lost most of the $50 trying $5.50 Sit N' Goes, and eventually stopped that, realizing I was simply no good at them for whatever reason). Maybe they're in over their heads, maybe they're trying to find the "groove", the game they're strongest at (I eventually discovered Limit Hold 'Em, specifically full cash games, seems to be my forte), or maybe they stupidly try and emulate their favorite no-limit tournament heroes and pay dearly for it.But that can't be all of it. Some people have to be degenerates, for lack of a better term, and feed even these turnaround players. My friend knows three guys living in an apartment, all of whom play online. Two of them are combining to either break even or even end up slightly ahead. Add in the third guy and they're down a grand. There's alot of "third guy"s out there who don't want to admit it.

[SiliconSlim 0]

Everyone that sits with me!*rimshot*

[Khug 0]

I started playing poker several months ago.After entering a few tournaments and playing some home games, i decided to get serious and read some books.After i thought i had a feel for it, i played at the local casino and won $250 at a $4/$8 table first day...I thought i was the best poker player ever (haha)so when i signed up online with $100, i figured it would be a snap, til i entered a $3/$6 game and lost down to $20 the first day.I learned a lesson. I have studied my play and read alot more on the subject, and now i consistently win. not every time, but most of the time. i have turned that $20 into $200.I have also noticed at the casino and online that there is no way everyone is a consistent winner... you just watch as people buy in for the minimum, go broke and buy in again... i watched a guy at the casino buy in 5 times in 4 hours.The thing about it is, most players that have read soemthing about poker, know what they are supposed to do, but don't do it. it takes discipline. Just because i won a huge hand in a shorthanded table with J-9s doesn't mean i should play it every time. but people think like that. or they get "feelings" about hands, and play them. or call to the river with second pair because they dont think anyone has a king. Only after training myself to get away from stupid moves like this have i become a better (and therefore a winning) player.The winning players are people who take an interest in doing things right, can get away from the fact they folded the winning hand twice in a row and just play properly.Sorry if i rambled a bit... i don't even know the point really...

[oldschool43 0]

SiliconSlim: "Everyone that sits with me!*rimshot*"haha... brilliant

[loxo 0]

I believe these forum's are a big help, definetly in my case and Im sure in others. My two freinds who are winning live players and losing online players dont take any time to join these forum's and read about poker.

I agree, I dont post a whole lot but I read everything I can of note in here and it has definately helped improve my game. Being from Australia I am not exposed to poker anywhere near the amount you guys in North America are, (you wont find a single poker book in the book stores at my local shopping centre) so I find the "informative" posts on here to be a great help in improving my game.I guess thats a big thanks then!!!Brett

[PrtyPSux 0]

I think I might be a loser 4 out of 5 losing sessions in 2-4

[solo319 0]

Of all of my friends Im the only one that is a winning player. I tend to have some problems with bankroll management but my friends are freaks its to easy just to double click on a high limit game. Ive seen them flush thousands it is kind of funny though like when your buddy who u know has been stuck for 3k over the last few months call you bragging about winning like 200 dollars the nite before. I tend to find that in my losing sessions my biggest problem is always not giving the other player enough credit for a big hand.

[Wang 0]

Ever notice the best time of day to play online is when everyone gets home from work? Many people who play simply don't have the time to invest in getting better, don't care to, or don't think they need to. Playing poker is a lot like going to the local casino. People get on a small win streak and think they are up because they don't remember the consistant smaller loses. They're chasing the dream of hitting it big and just don't understand why they don't win when they lose. Everyone WANTS to think they are winners.

[brian67 0]

You really play online and don't know where the losers come from? That's the funniest thing I ever heard. If I sit down at a table with 10 people I assume that there are a max of 2 winning players. I thought that it was only at the low limits for awhile, but then i found that there are plenty of terrible players in the 20-40 limits even. The other thing is that those people that are losing internet players either don't talk about their losses, they downplay them, or they just flat out lie to make you think they are winning.

[mrdannyg 274]

the internet just makes it easier for the degenerates to play poker. its that simple.  if you get a chance, go to a live cardroom and check out all the losers.  WOW!

True indeed!!! If you think internet players are bad, go to a cardroom.People calling 2 raises with 9-7 off, and calling to the river with a flop of A-K-7.You have to realize that most of the people on this forum are here to chat, but also to learn from other winning players. The losing players might join here and become better players, then be able to brag about their winnings.The best explanation I ever heard was from a losing player who said he used to play golf, but liked poker better. He said between memberships, clubs, etc. he would spend thousands per year. He said he could be a consistent loser playing poker and he would still come out ahead if he only golfed a few times a year with old clubs and just payed green fees.

do you play at brantford? last time i was at brantford, saw this exact hand at 20/40. turned a 9, rivered a 9. other player had AK. capped all three rounds. my 2-5 game stopped watching these guys go nuts.daniel