Indentured Servitude: The New Teen Tax

[hblask 1]

And so it begins:http://www.change.gov/americaserves

[timwakefield 68]

"...developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year." I hope that by "developing a plan" they mean "suggesting this crazy quota and then hoping some schools will follow suit in small ways, since the plan as stated is ridiculous in both its likelihood of being implemented (low) and in its similarity to criminal punishment (high)."

[hblask 1]

'...developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.' I hope that by 'developing a plan' they mean 'suggesting this crazy quota and then hoping some schools will follow suit in small ways, since the plan as stated is ridiculous in both its likelihood of being implemented (low) and in its similarity to criminal punishment (high)'

Are you saying that Obama is a good politician because his proposals are so crazy that they will never be implemented?

[Nimue1995 1]

I can see this working if like the GI bill they earn tuition credits for it. Then I'd think it was a good idea and could be truly voluntary instead of required. If that were the case then it would certainly be better than the servitude to debt that most college graduates currently endure.

[Sheiky 0]

Didn't Copernius say he supported something of this nature? I might be way of base there but it rings a bell.That must be one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard, really, enforced community service? What the hell?

[hblask 1]

That must be one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard, really, enforced community service? What the hell?

Maybe they can get the kids to wear orange jumpsuits and pick up trash alongside the freeway. That'll build some character.

[timwakefield 68]

Are you saying that Obama is a good politician because his proposals are so crazy that they will never be implemented?

Where did you get that?I'm saying that this sounds terrible and hopefully it is a lot more talk than reality because in reality it would be stupid.

[hblask 1]

Where did you get that?

I made it up, obviously, because I wanted to make a point.

[RealMagnetic 0]

I don't think it is the worst idea in the universe. Hopefully if this does end up happening he will tweak it: make it less hours, or voluntary or some credit for college, or something like that. I think the idea is to get more people involved in their communities. Yeah, I know, I also don't like being told what to do. Maybe if they made it totally voluntary but had incentives for getting involved in the community then it could work? This is America, where the government isn't supposed to tell you what you have to do etc.

[hblask 1]

I don't think it is the worst idea in the universe. Hopefully if this does end up happening he will tweak it: make it less hours, or voluntary or some credit for college, or something like that. I think the idea is to get more people involved in their communities. Yeah, I know, I also don't like being told what to do. Maybe if they made it <u>totally</u> voluntary but had incentives for getting involved in the community then it could work? This is America, where the government isn't supposed to tell you what you have to do etc.

But then what is it? Some sort of bizaare sub-minimum-wage voluntary competition with private enterprise but only for certain people? And what about the jobs that are lost because the govt is bribing people to do work that companies otherwise would do? Do we need to raise unemployment taxes to cover them?

[Nimue1995 1]

I don't think it is the worst idea in the universe. Hopefully if this does end up happening he will tweak it: make it less hours, or voluntary or some credit for college, or something like that. I think the idea is to get more people involved in their communities. Yeah, I know, I also don't like being told what to do. Maybe if they made it totally voluntary but had incentives for getting involved in the community then it could work? This is America, where the government isn't supposed to tell you what you have to do etc.

This was what I was trying to get at. I think there has to be some commitment contract for a certain number of hours in order to get those tuition credits though. Also would like the decision making as to which groups/programs are involved should be made at either the state or county level so that the help is applied where it's needed.

[nutzbuster 7]

And so it begins:http://www.change.gov/americaserves

L O LI hope you guys are happy.I say we start with every person currently enrolled in College.....

[vbnautilus 48]

I vaguely remember someone here advocating the israeli model of required military service.. (was it scram maybe?) I wonder what that person thinks of this idea.

[Jeepster80125 0]

No one read the fine print. The only community service that people will be allowed to do is to work for ACORN.

[85suited 0]

LOL... This is just the start.... Get Ready.. This is the change you voted for

[checkymcfold 0]

a lot of european countries do stuff similar to this. depending on its implementation, it could either be a good thing or a bad thing, imo.

[nutzbuster 7]

a lot of european countries do stuff similar to this. depending on its implementation, it could either be a good thing or a bad thing, imo.

The idea of volunteering and helping out is Nobel.Being forced to do it is a whole other thing altogether.I know Isreal and Germany do this sort of thing, and on the surface it seems like a positive thing, get lost kids off the street, teach them the value of helping, etc.But ... I'm sorry. This is Big Brother ramming his fist up your ass.

[hblask 1]

nvm

[checkymcfold 0]

The idea of volunteering and helping out is Nobel.Being forced to do it is a whole other thing altogether.I know Isreal and Germany do this sort of thing, and on the surface it seems like a positive thing, get lost kids off the street, teach them the value of helping, etc.But ... I'm sorry. This is Big Brother ramming his fist up your ass.

it's not that different from high school in the end, i bet. i mean, i could be wrong--none of us know anything about this yet, really, but keep in mind that kids are kept under pretty strict wraps for a lot of their minor-aged lives. and for good reason. we don't think of kids having to take 12 years of math class as "big brother ramming his fist up your ass," and i don't know that OMGFIFTYWHOLEHOURS of community service needs to be thought of as altogether different.

[gobears 0]

But then what is it? Some sort of bizaare sub-minimum-wage voluntary competition with private enterprise but only for certain people? And what about the jobs that are lost because the govt is bribing people to do work that companies otherwise would do? Do we need to raise unemployment taxes to cover them?

Change the word "required" to voluntary and I'd be ok with it. I think this would be a situation where the schools or whatever didn't have the money to pay any company so it would require volunteers to help in the classroom or whatever.If the incentives related to further education (scholarships or something), I think that this could work.

[checkymcfold 0]

But then what is it? Some sort of bizaare sub-minimum-wage voluntary competition with private enterprise but only for certain people? And what about the jobs that are lost because the govt is bribing people to do work that companies otherwise would do? Do we need to raise unemployment taxes to cover them?

if we go by what the website says and it's similar to the peace corps and americorps, it's not replacing any paid positions at all, and is actually focused on cleaning up low income communities, building parks, starting after school programs, etc.

[nutzbuster 7]

it's not that different from high school in the end, i bet. i mean, i could be wrong--none of us know anything about this yet, really, but keep in mind that kids are kept under pretty strict wraps for a lot of their minor-aged lives. and for good reason. we don't think of kids having to take 12 years of math class as "big brother ramming his fist up your ass," and i don't know that OMGFIFTYWHOLEHOURS of community service needs to be thought of as altogether different.

I hope you are right.

[RealMagnetic 0]

I am starting to warm to the idea. But it just needs to be implemented in a way that brings out the best. (no, I don't know what that implementation is...)

[Nimue1995 1]

Do you all really have a problem with an incentive based voluntary system like that? Is that really rampant socialism and Big Brother taking over? Or is the required part the sticking point? Maybe as Checky says we should just make all school courses voluntary as well. Can't be forcing those kids to do anything like real work now can we? Good grief, if this was a Republican proposal you'd all be lining up. The military is voluntary also but once you're in then you're in. Shall we make that optional as well so that when things get tough the kids can opt out?

[nutzbuster 7]

Flew back and forth and throuoghout Europe and have had conversations with some folks who did this.I remember one German dude (25-ish) said he either had to pick College, 1 year volunteering or Military. Maybe this has changed, but anyway, he did not seem to have had a problem with it. When I told him the the USA does not do this, he was surprised and said that he wished that, while he did not mind doing it, would have preferred it was a choice and not mandatory.for whatever that is worth...