Indentured Servitude: The New Teen Tax

[checkymcfold 0]

Flew back and forth and throuoghout Europe and have had conversations with some folks who did this.I remember one German dude (25-ish) said he either had to pick College, 1 year volunteering or Military. Maybe this has changed, but anyway, he did not seem to have had a problem with it. When I told him the the USA does not do this, he was surprised and said that he wished that, while he did not mind doing it, would have preferred it was a choice and not mandatory.for whatever that is worth...

yea, i know they do something like that in germany, but although all the kids i knew that were high school age weren't for it (similarly, few american kids i know are pro-math class), those same kids are really happy they did it now that we've all grown up a bit. i actually talked to a friend of mine when i was in germany this summer about it, and he said that it really does a lot for the communal sense of german nationalism that's been lacking a healthy outlet since the second world war.alexis said that canada does this, too, fwiw.

[CindyLou 11]

it's not that different from high school in the end, i bet. i mean, i could be wrong--none of us know anything about this yet, really, but keep in mind that kids are kept under pretty strict wraps for a lot of their minor-aged lives. and for good reason. we don't think of kids having to take 12 years of math class as "big brother ramming his fist up your ass," and i don't know that OMGFIFTYWHOLEHOURS of community service needs to be thought of as altogether different.

If my school system proposed the idea that one of the electives in high school or middle school would be a community service class alongside music, art, drama, etc., I would say it’s a great idea. I wouldn’t even have a problem saying that the class is required at least once a semester. 45 minutes a day for one semester would be, what, 75 hours?

[checkymcfold 0]

If my school system proposed the idea that one of the electives in high school or middle school would be a community service class alongside music, art, drama, etc., I would say it’s a great idea. I wouldn’t even have a problem saying that the class is required at least once a semester. 45 minutes a day for one semester would be, what, 75 hours?

from reading the site, i think that this is very, very close to what he's advocating. but i could be wrong, obv. i just think that the alarmist ZOMG FORCING ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING IS WRONG tack is altogether unproductive.

[Nimue1995 1]

If my school system proposed the idea that one of the electives in high school or middle school would be a community service class alongside music, art, drama, etc., I would say it’s a great idea. I wouldn’t even have a problem saying that the class is required at least once a semester. 45 minutes a day for one semester would be, what, 75 hours?

Could be educational in studying the various groups in the community, you could volunteer for and what their purpose is and how well they serve that purpose. Gosh we could actually educate kids on making the educated choices about where they want to volunteer their time. And as for competing with the private sector, I really don't see this happening all that much. If there's a need for volunteers then obviously it's not something the private sector finds profitable.

[brvheart 1,759]

"...developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year." I hope that by "developing a plan" they mean "suggesting this crazy quota and then hoping some schools will follow suit in small ways, since the plan as stated is ridiculous in both its likelihood of being implemented (low) and in its similarity to criminal punishment (high)."

I'll go ahead and assume that most democrats will be reacting like this on a lot of things.

Are you saying that Obama is a good politician because his proposals are so crazy that they will never be implemented?

LOL

Didn't Copernius say he supported something of this nature? I might be way of base there but it rings a bell.That must be one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard, really, enforced community service? What the hell?

dem #2

L O LI hope you guys are happy.I say we start with every person currently enrolled in College.....

This is perfect.

[Avaron 0]

Flew back and forth and throuoghout Europe and have had conversations with some folks who did this.I remember one German dude (25-ish) said he either had to pick College, 1 year volunteering or Military. Maybe this has changed, but anyway, he did not seem to have had a problem with it. When I told him the the USA does not do this, he was surprised and said that he wished that, while he did not mind doing it, would have preferred it was a choice and not mandatory.

yes, it's still the same. and actually we don't have a problem with it. of course, not everybody likes it, especially when you're told to volunteer while you have a job at the same time, because the volunteering pays not that much obv. but you don't lose your job, you return there after volunteering. and it's the same in the military (and btw: we still have regular soldiers as well).

yea, i know they do something like that in germany, but although all the kids i knew that were high school age weren't for it (similarly, few american kids i know are pro-math class), those same kids are really happy they did it now that we've all grown up a bit. i actually talked to a friend of mine when i was in germany this summer about it, and he said that it really does a lot for the communal sense of german nationalism that's been lacking a healthy outlet since the second world war.

not only that, but you learn a lot for your life. all of my friends who were in the military were not happy bout it before, and after the year they all told funny stories and how good it was etc^^

[brvheart 1,759]

This is the exact point:America Serves "When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

[Sheiky 0]

The idea of volunteering and helping out is Nobel.Being forced to do it is a whole other thing altogether.I know Isreal and Germany do this sort of thing, and on the surface it seems like a positive thing, get lost kids off the street, teach them the value of helping, etc.But ... I'm sorry. This is Big Brother ramming his fist up your ass.

Yeah, there's also massive cultural differences between the two countries that make comparisons in areas like this really wrong. There's a perfect example of this with the treatment of apprenticeships in Germany and in my country. Origianly, practical work apprenticeships in Germany started as voluntary schemes that took of and now work really well. Us English people over yonder decided to copy this, but given the massive apathy towards work among teenagers in our country they basically failed. The type of values this program is trying to instil in today's youth are values that are embedded deep into the cultural and social makeup of the country. Trying to force people in ways like this never works.

[Sheiky 0]

dem #2This is perfect.

I'm not a democrat!!

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Maybe they can get the kids to wear orange jumpsuits and pick up trash alongside the freeway. That'll build some character.

I had read about this somewhere before, what was really scary about it was that there was a training program being designed which participants would have to attnend. This training was an indoctination into Community Organizer type stuff that Obama did in Chicago.

[hblask 1]

I am starting to warm to the idea. But it just needs to be implemented in a way that brings out the best. (no, I don't know what that implementation is...)

Ah, the Fatal Conceit rears its ugly head -- if everyone just suddenly elects smart people instead of the current batch of bozos, this could be implemented in a way that is good.If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

[hblask 1]

This proposal demonstrates first and foremost, that, despite claims to the contrary, Obama is in no way centrist. The primary belief of socialism is that the citizens of a nation are just cogs in the machine, to be used for the greater good (society is the root word of socialism for a reason -- society > individual). Between Obama's history and this proposal, nobody can even *pretend* he's a moderate.Second, I notice how this discussion has quickly evolved into the merits of the government bribing people into performing voluntary community service. So, at worst, Obama's proposal is an insane socialist idea, and at best, it's blackmailing people into accepting a crappy program out of fear that he will try to implement a really, really terrible program.On to the merits of "voluntary" government work. The theory is that it will teach people civic responsibility, blah, blah, blah, but in reality what this type of program teaches is that it is not very difficult to take the easy way out when the federal govt is writing the checks. That is the exact *opposite* of what we learn with voluntary community service.

[El Guapo 8]

Change the word "required" to voluntary and I'd be ok with it. I think this would be a situation where the schools or whatever didn't have the money to pay any company so it would require volunteers to help in the classroom or whatever.If the incentives related to further education (scholarships or something), I think that this could work.

Um, this already exists.

[Balloon guy 158]

I for one fully support this.Making kids help thier communities in exchange for schooling and or the rights to access of funding for schooling.and I think they should have to attend a lecture each day before their volunteer duty, a lecture written by the politcal party that is in charge during the student's year of duty. ( Presidential power, since the back and forthness of the congress would have too many hanges )This is a really good idea

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

I, for one, would like to know what ever happened to the god damn draft. Now that was real service to your country, not this hippy, pinko community bullsht. Less picking up trash and more shipping off to Saigon, plz

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

and I think they should have to attend a lecture each day before their volunteer duty, a lecture written by the politcal party that is in charge during the student's year of duty. ( Presidential power, since the back and forthness of the congress would have too many hanges )This is a really good idea

Say, this is a good idea. And if the kids don't fullfill their community service requirements... I think we should send them to re-education communities, so they can be indoctrinated into what devotion to your country and party truly means. I think we're onto something, here, I hope no one's copyrighted this idea.

[Nimue1995 1]

Personally with all the deal that you guys have about kids accepting responsibility and all, why the heck do you think this is such a bad idea? A community based program of volunteering for kids with them being required to do 1 FREAKING HOUR A WEEK is NOT Big Brother taking over for crying out loud. Do you really think that taking the kids away from their video games & TV for 1 hour a week is going to kill them or turn them into "cogs in the machine"? Give me a freakin' break!I love the idea of this because it will also give kids some skin in the game as far as their communities are concerned. Don't you think it might just cut down on the vandalism etc if the kids know that next week they're going to be cleaning up the mess? Plus if you give them college help for the work, why would that be any different than what we already give the military? To me this isn't any different. Republicans need to start investing in kids and parents taking some personal responsiblity instead of telling them that "the man" is being horrible to them because they happen to require a little work from them on behalf of the community in order to get their diploma. We already require classroom work so why is this so bad? Sorry H but I just can't agree with you on this one. To me, giving kids some ownership and pride in their communities by requiring community service as well as giving them a chance to earn some money for college isn't a bad thing. I don't see it as the socialist end of the world that you people seem to be talking about. How many of you all went to college on the GI bill? And how many of you would have been able to afford it without that? And how many of your kids that are attending college now will graduate with a house payment size student loan before they even get a job in their field? Do you think this is really right? If so then fine, we have nothing more to talk about. But if you think there's something wrong with that scenario then what do YOU suggest to change it especially for those kids who for whatever reason can't qualify for the military?

[PMJackson21 0]

Maybe my school district was different, but am I the only one that had to complete a certain amount of volunteer/public service hours in order to pass Civics (government, whatever your school calls it) senior year of HS?

[phlegm 6]

If I could do this instead of "sensitivity training" then +9

[vbnautilus 48]

I for one fully support this.Making kids help thier communities in exchange for schooling and or the rights to access of funding for schooling.and I think they should have to attend a lecture each day before their volunteer duty, a lecture written by the politcal party that is in charge during the student's year of duty. ( Presidential power, since the back and forthness of the congress would have too many hanges )This is a really good idea

While we're at it, let's have them pledge their allegiance to the religion of whomever is currently in charge...(guess that's taken care of already)

[Nimue1995 1]

Maybe my school district was different, but am I the only one that had to complete a certain amount of volunteer/public service hours in order to pass Civics (government, whatever your school calls it) senior year of HS?

Well obviously your school district is in socialist California. How did you ever survive the trama?

[PMJackson21 0]

Well obviously your school district is in socialist California. How did you ever survive the trama?

Not only California, the SF Bay Area, so you know we are extra socialist here.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

a lot of european countries do stuff similar to this. depending on its implementation, it could either be a good thing or a bad thing, imo.

Here in Ontario one of the requirements for earning your high school diploma is 50 hours of unpaid community service. The 50 hours is over their entire four years and they decide what they'll do. My Niece taught softball to younger kids as she is an elite softball pitcher.http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/extra/eng/ppm/124a.html

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

I had to do like 40 hours I think for my senior year " citizenship issues class", taught by an honest to god pinko. I volunteered at a children's museum. Scoutin' out talent, knowwhatimean?

[PMJackson21 0]

I had to do like 40 hours I think for my senior year " citizenship issues class", taught by an honest to god pinko. I volunteered at a children's museum. Scoutin' out talent, knowwhatimean?

I cheated. My friend's grandma runs a shelter for abused boys, and she signed off for me. Later that summer I had to help her grandson do a bunch of yardwork, but nowhere near the amount of hours that they required.IIRC, you had to have a certain amount of points/hours to graduate, and they could be earned via volunteer work, going to city council meetings, etc. My memory of senior is vague at best though, but I think that was our system.