Hall Of Fame

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Re: Bonds.What's the reaction if he comes out with this statement or press conference?"Listen, I was the best player in the game for a decade. I won three MVP's and should've had one more. Then here come guys like McGwire, who everybody knows is on something, and he's hitting home runs left and right and now that's all anyone and Major League Baseball cares about anymore. So what would you have me do? Just sit back and let them take my money and my awards because they're doing something 'illegal' and baseball doesn't even want to test for it? No, I'll tell you what I do; I level the playing field. I do what they're doing and I show them what happens when a real baseball player has the same advantages they have. Yes, I took performance enhancing substances from 2000-2005, but no, I will not apologize for it."p.s. I have no basis for the 2000-2005 period.

[Mills 0]

Re: Bonds.What's the reaction if he comes out with this statement or press conference?"Listen, I was the best player in the game for a decade. I won three MVP's and should've had one more. Then here come guys like McGwire, who everybody knows is on something, and he's hitting home runs left and right and now that's all anyone and Major League Baseball cares about anymore. So what would you have me do? Just sit back and let them take my money and my awards because they're doing something 'illegal' and baseball doesn't even want to test for it? No, I'll tell you what I do; I level the playing field. I do what they're doing and I show them what happens when a real baseball player has the same advantages they have. Yes, I took performance enhancing substances from 2000-2005, but no, I will not apologize for it."p.s. I have no basis for the 2000-2005 period.

He's still in, because his career numbers before that point still make him a hOFamer.. so even if we nix those years, it dosen't even really matter. But that would be a really shitty excuse. imo. I never really understood how guys can accept accomplishments with PED's.... unless your like mcguire and convince yourself that youd have been the same hitter.

[uncooper 1]

But that would be a really shitty excuse. imo. I never really understood how guys can accept accomplishments with PED's.... unless your like mcguire and convince yourself that youd have been the same hitter.

I like the A-Rod excuse: I'm getting paid an amount no one has EVER been paid, I feel like I need to do something no one has EVER done. It's so wonderfully demented and perfectly sums up his weird psyche.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

if Montreal was still a franchise, he might have gone into the hall as an expo. His best all around years were in Montreal.

The Hall of Fame has decided that Dawson is going into the hall as an Expo even though Dawson wanted his plaque to show a Cubs hat.LinkI've known that the hall has always had final say on these matters, but I've never known them to go against the wishes of the player.

[brvheart 1,752]

This Guy

[timwakefield 68]

The Hall of Fame has decided that Dawson is going into the hall as an Expo even though Dawson wanted his plaque to show a Cubs hat.LinkI've known that the hall has always had final say on these matters, but I've never known them to go against the wishes of the player.

Dawson: I mean seriously, the Expos? That's embarrassing. In 50 years people will be like, 'The What-spos?'

[digitalmonkey 929]

Dawson: I mean seriously, the Expos? That's embarrassing. In 50 years people will be like, 'The What-spos?'

Well, those people will be shitty baseball fans...so who cares anyway.

[Tactical Bear 3]

Re: Bonds.What's the reaction if he comes out with this statement or press conference?"Listen, I was the best player in the game for a decade. I won three MVP's and should've had one more. Then here come guys like McGwire, who everybody knows is on something, and he's hitting home runs left and right and now that's all anyone and Major League Baseball cares about anymore. So what would you have me do? Just sit back and let them take my money and my awards because they're doing something 'illegal' and baseball doesn't even want to test for it? No, I'll tell you what I do; I level the playing field. I do what they're doing and I show them what happens when a real baseball player has the same advantages they have. Yes, I took performance enhancing substances from 2000-2005, but no, I will not apologize for it."p.s. I have no basis for the 2000-2005 period.

My roommate and I probably spend at least an hour a week having a conversation that starts like this:Wang: "Hey, did you bring home a fat chick last night? I went to bed early, and I swear around 3 in the morning it sounded like somebody was skinning a cat, man."Roommate: "Six oh nine."Wang: "Yeah whenever I think about it I just want to throw up."Roommate: "Six. Oh. Nine."Wang: "Two hundred and thirty two walks."Roommate: "It makes me physically ill."Wang: "I think my favorite thing about that seasons is, if you replaced every one of his hits with outs, his OBP would still be well above league-average. He walked in more than thirty-seven percent of his plate appearances."Roommate: "That's just... can you figure out what his value would have been if all of his singles had been outs and all of his extra-base hits had been singles?"Wang: "Off the top of my head, I know his OBP is just shy of .500, and his SLG would have been something like .200. I bet that's at least a league-average player."Roommate: "He is just so awesome. We don't talk about it enough."Wang: "We talk about it an hour a week."Roommate: "Not enough. Like Charles Woodson at Michigan. Not enough."We've also had a few conversations about the perfect way for him to drop the truth-hammer on everyone, and we've pretty much decided it would be perfect if he did exactly what you suggest, maybe with a little more racial hostility. The fact remains, you could have juiced up every player in the game, and I have no doubt that Bonds would have still been, far and away, the best of all of them.

The Hall of Fame has decided that Dawson is going into the hall as an Expo even though Dawson wanted his plaque to show a Cubs hat.LinkI've known that the hall has always had final say on these matters, but I've never known them to go against the wishes of the player.

I'm glad they threw him in as an Expo. I know Jonah Keri was really happy about that. I thought there was a much better argument for him going in as an Expo than a Cub -- he spent his prime and had his best years in Montreal, but had some solid years and won an MVP in Chicago -- but since he made it pretty clear that he wanted to go in as a Cub, I figured he'd get his wish. I'm kind of curious as to why MLB made that decision, but I am satisfied by it.

[CaneBrain 95]

We really should have been appreciating the awesomeness of Barry Bonds instead of focusing on whether he did was everyone else was doing. I wish they had stats like "number of times a ball was hit directly square" just so Bonds amazingness could be put in even better perspective.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Pete Rose should be in.Barry Bonds should get in.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Obviously Griffey is in, the real question is, how high do we rank him in the all time out fielders list? I would put him 3rd at centerfield, and in the top fifteen over all.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

here's my list..Rickey, Bonds, , Ruth, Aaron, Frank Robinson, Stan Musial, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb , Ted Williams and maybe mel ott and manny.

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

We really should have been appreciating the awesomeness of Barry Bonds instead of focusing on whether he did was everyone else was doing. I wish they had stats like "number of times a ball was hit directly square" just so Bonds amazingness could be put in even better perspective.

+100%

[slink 1]

here's my list..Rickey, Bonds, , Ruth, Aaron, Frank Robinson, Stan Musial, Willie Mays, Ty Cobb , Ted Williams and maybe mel ott and manny.

I'd like to see a list based purely on offensive skills and one on defensive skills, just to see how much cross-over there is.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'd like to see a list based purely on offensive skills and one on defensive skills, just to see how much cross-over there is.

yeah, the problem with that is I have no idea how good of fielders anyone before I was born is.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

also ,do we rank griffey's fielding on the first half of his career ( which was better than just about anyones) or the second half ( so bad that he had to leave the naitional league.)

[speedz99 145]

I think I've made my point or tried to, so I'm going to stop posting in this thread because I know you guys will ruin me with your counter-arguments.

But...doesn't this just mean that you know you're wrong and don't want to be convinced of that fact? Isn't that a bad way to...you know, live?

also ,do we rank griffey's fielding on the first half of his career ( which was better than just about anyones) or the second half ( so bad that he had to leave the naitional league.)

He has to be knocked down a peg or two for going so far downhill, but he was so good in the field for so long that the slide can be mostly forgiven.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I just can't get into discussions on how good someone was defensively. I can't get past the fact that the likely correct answer is: we really don't know. Especially when it comes to any old-timers.That being said, Griffey was certainly fun to watch. I would love to see an outfield with Griffey and Ichiro out there together in their respective primes. Then again, Franklin Gutierrez might end up being the best Mariners outfielder of them all.

[speedz99 145]

I just can't get into discussions on how good someone was defensively. I can't get past the fact that the likely correct answer is: we really don't know. Especially when it comes to any old-timers.

I understand that we don't know when it comes to players we never got to watch, but what do you mean that we don't know in general? You mean because fielding stats haven't been perfected and it's too subjective?

[El Guapo 8]

I understand that we don't know when it comes to players we never got to watch, but what do you mean that we don't know in general? You mean because fielding stats haven't been perfected and it's too subjective?

I am guessing he is talking about comparing Griffey to Mays, since none of us saw Mays play, what is our barometer for defensive prowess since stats only go so far.Darren Lewis was one of the best defensive center fielders ever, if not the best, but he never gets discussed because his offense was horrific.In 13 seasons he had 16 errorsGriffey had 94 in 22 seasonsMays had 154 in 22 seasonsjust to compare. (actually games played would be better, but I am lazy)

[uncooper 1]

I understand that we don't know when it comes to players we never got to watch, but what do you mean that we don't know in general? You mean because fielding stats haven't been perfected and it's too subjective?

Because the metrics are so new and appear to take a long time (many seasons) to converge, I think it is fair to say that we don't know statistically. Within the problem of subjectivity, there's the fact that it is hard to separate the team's effect on the player's performance, managerial decisions about defensive alignments, luck, the Jeter effect where a play that would be simple for a better fielder looks more impressive/athletic when a worse fielder makes it, etc. With the data we do have, it is looking more and more like intuition-based evaluations of defense may be severely flawed. [citation needed]

[slink 1]

Can we throw out some players since 1980 that have been spectacular defensively to make a top whatever list?GriffeyHunterEdmonds?Mathews Jr.Suzuki?White?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Can we throw out some players since 1980 that have been spectacular defensively to make a top whatever list?GriffeyHunterEdmonds?Mathews Jr.Suzuki?White?

I would add Andre Dawson to that list. When he was an Expo, he was unreal, and had the best arm in the outfield in baseball. His knees bothered him as a cub, but he still made some spectacular throws. Won 8 straight gold gloves, from 80 to 88.

[slink 1]

Should 1500 RBI be considered a benchmark HOF stat such as 3,000 hits, 300 wins, and 500 HR's?I think it should, moreso than, or perhaps equal to, 500 HR's.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Yes, I agree that we should determine who the best players are based on who has the best teammates.