Official Toronto Maple Leafs Thread

[serge 904]

Another great first period for the Leafs, a period where they outshot the Sens 19-9....Lets keep it up

[serge 904]

correction 21 shots on goal

[Fubar The Sperm 1]

Hopefully the refs can keep boning the Sens. Schenn should have had a 2 minute penalty for instigating and 2 for having the shield. Even Cherry said he instigated it. Then Volchenkov get a tripping penalty for a hip check. Seriously? and Smith gets a crosschecking penalty with ONE hand on his stick. Now, Leafs are playing well and I've been impressed but the penalties so far have been complete bs and completely took away from the first period.

[serge 904]

usually the team working harder gets the calls..this game is ridicolously one sided...

[serge 904]

Another great win by the Leafs. The leafs under Maurice would of lost this game. They played great with the lead, other than a Mccabe like miscue by Van ryn they played a phenomenal game. Worked hard, didnt take too many dumb penalties, especially late and scored key goals..I am really proud of this team, and things are shaping up like exactly i said before the season. I just hope that the guys who said this team will finish last will eat their words..I know you guys wont admit to not seeing this , but hopefully you will.Long way to go, but its been great so far.

[Fubar The Sperm 1]

Another great win by the Leafs. The leafs under Maurice would of lost this game. They played great with the lead, other than a Mccabe like miscue by Van ryn they played a phenomenal game. Worked hard, didnt take too many dumb penalties, especially late and scored key goals..I am really proud of this team, and things are shaping up like exactly i said before the season. I just hope that the guys who said this team will finish last will eat their words..I know you guys wont admit to not seeing this , but hopefully you will.Long way to go, but its been great so far.

Lucky win. If the refs call this game down the middle the Sens win by a goal or 2. Hard fought game by Toronto but they benefited from bad calls.

[serge 904]

Lucky win. If the refs call this game down the middle the Sens win by a goal or 2. Hard fought game by Toronto but they benefited from bad calls.

lucky win???that is funny....Spoken like a true loser fan of the worst team in hockey...THE OTTAWA SENATORS...There was nothing lucky about this game.

[serge 904]

its hilarious that Howard Berger doesnt have a blog up today..When they lose the blog is up like an hour after the game..He has no clue what to say..How about this Howard?"I apologize to all the real fans and the Maple Leafs organization...I WAS WRONG...

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Serge, Id like to preface the following by saying you know I wouldnt slam the Leafs for no reason, and I'm certainly not here to go at it with you. BUT.... I was talking with a buddy last night whose hockey knowledge I respect. I dont mean like hockey pools, or betting, but the game itself. He coaches some kind of high level of minor hockey (its all child labour to me!), and he genuinely knows his shit, I believe. He was saying that he believes the Leafs will be pretty successful with this run for the next little while, as they go thru the NHL for the first time. Not great, but a decent record. But soon, teams will adjust to the system the Leafs are playing, understand this team is now fast, and exploit the weaknesses the Leafs do have. And it will be hard for Wilson to counteract that. Now my buddy is not the type to talk for no reason. He doesnt slam the Leafs, and if anything, is probably a Leafs fan. He just thinks the teams playing against them are not ready for the speed and play of the Leafs, and that the system being used is working for them, and as long as they skate hard, it will work. But the lifespan of this is short. I'm curious to see what others think. Also, Im wondering how accurate this is, so we can use this in the RTE.

[serge 904]

Serge, Id like to preface the following by saying you know I wouldnt slam the Leafs for no reason, and I'm certainly not here to go at it with you. BUT.... I was talking with a buddy last night whose hockey knowledge I respect. I dont mean like hockey pools, or betting, but the game itself. He coaches some kind of high level of minor hockey (its all child labour to me!), and he genuinely knows his shit, I believe. He was saying that he believes the Leafs will be pretty successful with this run for the next little while, as they go thru the NHL for the first time. Not great, but a decent record. But soon, teams will adjust to the system the Leafs are playing, understand this team is now fast, and exploit the weaknesses the Leafs do have. And it will be hard for Wilson to counteract that. Now my buddy is not the type to talk for no reason. He doesnt slam the Leafs, and if anything, is probably a Leafs fan. He just thinks the teams playing against them are not ready for the speed and play of the Leafs, and that the system being used is working for them, and as long as they skate hard, it will work. But the lifespan of this is short. I'm curious to see what others think. Also, Im wondering how accurate this is, so we can use this in the RTE.

well i dont agree but I respect you and your buddies judgement..However...Before the season started, everyone..and I MEAN EVERYONE, including some of the Leafs management themselves thought this was a team that had NO chance to win a significant number of games. EVERYONE except a very select few, yours truly included..As much as I am biased, I assure you there arent a lot of people that watch more Leafs games and follow everything Leafs than myself. Now when I say watch Leafs games, I dont turn the game off when they are up 6-1 or down 7-0..I watch till the last second, listen to pre game , post game and everything.This isnt baseball where the batters can adjust to a certain pitcher the second time around. It happens all the time in baseball, a rookie pitcher(ie Jesse Litsch) has great success in the first few months, they annoint him the next Cy Young and then boom the second time around he gets shellacked and next thing you know he is in the minors.This is a system that Ron Wilson has used for many years. He has had great success with other teams. Its not rocket science, teams have seen this before. The system to work players HAVE to buy in to the system, and at the end of the day its on them.From what I have seen , this Leaf team is totally different than what I am used to. The last few years, we would score a ton of goals, and blow lead after lead after lead. This team knows how to play with a lead, call it a trap or whatever but the system is a part of the whole process..They work hard, they forecheck like crazy, create tons of turnovers and the key is dont take STUPID penalties.Other than the Montreal game where they just ran into too many penalties against the worst team to run into penalty trouble against, they have been in EVERY GAME..Even the Pittsburgh game it was close till the last 10 minutes.This is a new NHL. With the salary cap , there isnt a huge discrepancy in talent..On most nights the team that is working hard will win. And if you dont work hard like we have seen with Wilson he will sit you. Why doesnt Hartsburgh sit Spezza,Heatley or Alfredsson??Because I assure you Wilson would of scratched them by now.I know you arent slamming them, but even after this great run of games, people still want to slam them. From people saying WHY ARE YOU WINNING you are wasting a high draft pick, to people saying they are lucky because of calls by the refs.I like to finally give some credit to where credit is due and annoint Ron Wilson as a Coach of the year candidate...

[gruven 530]

well i dont agree but I respect you and your buddies judgement..However...Before the season started, everyone..and I MEAN EVERYONE, including some of the Leafs management themselves thought this was a team that had NO chance to win a significant number of games. EVERYONE except a very select few, yours truly included..As much as I am biased, I assure you there arent a lot of people that watch more Leafs games and follow everything Leafs than myself. Now when I say watch Leafs games, I dont turn the game off when they are up 6-1 or down 7-0..I watch till the last second, listen to pre game , post game and everything.This isnt baseball where the batters can adjust to a certain pitcher the second time around. It happens all the time in baseball, a rookie pitcher(ie Jesse Litsch) has great success in the first few months, they annoint him the next Cy Young and then boom the second time around he gets shellacked and next thing you know he is in the minors.This is a system that Ron Wilson has used for many years. He has had great success with other teams. Its not rocket science, teams have seen this before. The system to work players HAVE to buy in to the system, and at the end of the day its on them.From what I have seen , this Leaf team is totally different than what I am used to. The last few years, we would score a ton of goals, and blow lead after lead after lead. This team knows how to play with a lead, call it a trap or whatever but the system is a part of the whole process..They work hard, they forecheck like crazy, create tons of turnovers and the key is dont take STUPID penalties.Other than the Montreal game where they just ran into too many penalties against the worst team to run into penalty trouble against, they have been in EVERY GAME..Even the Pittsburgh game it was close till the last 10 minutes.This is a new NHL. With the salary cap , there isnt a huge discrepancy in talent..On most nights the team that is working hard will win. And if you dont work hard like we have seen with Wilson he will sit you. Why doesnt Hartsburgh sit Spezza,Heatley or Alfredsson??Because I assure you Wilson would of scratched them by now.I know you arent slamming them, but even after this great run of games, people still want to slam them. From people saying WHY ARE YOU WINNING you are wasting a high draft pick, to people saying they are lucky because of calls by the refs.I like to finally give some credit to where credit is due and annoint Ron Wilson as a Coach of the year candidate...

Yes, serge, you know more than the pro scouts, analysts, etc, who watch every game. Arp is exactly right. This team is working hard. Nice to see. But in the end, they don't have any talent. And teams will adjust to the leafs hard forecheck. It's only a matter of time. As for the no-discrepancy in talent..... seriously.... it's this type of statement that costs you any credibility when it comes to hockey. This team has almost NO talent. One of the biggest leaf homers there is (i wont mention his name on here, but ask me privately and I will tell you who) said to me the other night 'This is a team of 3 third lines and a fourth line. That is right on the money. You may now proceed with your rant how no one listens to you and how the media just loves to hate the leafs. Oh, on that point? On Saturday night, I had no less than four different conversations with media types where we all agree that this team is fun to watch because of their work ethic. That it's nice to see a hard working team, and it will make the season much more tolerable to watch. Oh, and that they suck and have no talent.

[Mercury69 3]

Ok, I'm a Habs fan living in Toronto, which makes me kind of biased, but to say the Leafs have NO talent is beyond stupid. In reponse, I have 2 words: Luke ShennAside from, yes, some glaring holes on their team (ie: overall goaltending, lack of a true goal scorer and no superstar names, etc), the new Leafs are a bunch of blue collar boys who actually have to work for a win and guess what? This is going to give them the grit and determination that will cause them to eke out a few more victories than people were thinking. Learning a new system and having 4 lines that can grind is better than having some high priced prima donnas on your team.Go, Leafs, go! Except when playing the Habs, of course, who got creamed by the Ducks the other night lol...PS: It's been a while since I've seen a Leafs team forechecking as effectively as this one is...

[Speed Limit 0]

This isnt baseball where the batters can adjust to a certain pitcher the second time around. It happens all the time in baseball, a rookie pitcher(ie Jesse Litsch) has great success in the first few months, they annoint him the next Cy Young and then boom the second time around he gets shellacked and next thing you know he is in the minors.

My hometown has the AA team for the Toronto Blue Jays, so I get to see guys like Litsch, Hill, Chacin, Lind (so on and so forth) and it's actually pretty awesome to watch. Love minor league baseball in the summer.

[serge 904]

Yes, serge, you know more than the pro scouts, analysts, etc, who watch every game. Arp is exactly right. This team is working hard. Nice to see. But in the end, they don't have any talent. And teams will adjust to the leafs hard forecheck. It's only a matter of time. As for the no-discrepancy in talent..... seriously.... it's this type of statement that costs you any credibility when it comes to hockey. This team has almost NO talent. One of the biggest leaf homers there is (i wont mention his name on here, but ask me privately and I will tell you who) said to me the other night 'This is a team of 3 third lines and a fourth line. That is right on the money. You may now proceed with your rant how no one listens to you and how the media just loves to hate the leafs. Oh, on that point? On Saturday night, I had no less than four different conversations with media types where we all agree that this team is fun to watch because of their work ethic. That it's nice to see a hard working team, and it will make the season much more tolerable to watch. Oh, and that they suck and have no talent.

So are those the same pro scouts and analysts that ALL pick the Leafs to finish in the bottom 3 of the conference?I never said the Leafs are the most talented team in the NHL, as a matter of fact I agree with the statement that there arent a lot of talented players on the Leafs right now. However talent can be bought, winning systems and hard work cant. The perfect example is the Ottawa Senators.Who would you like to have, a team of hard working guys like Moore,Grabovski,Antropov,Pony, Steen and Stajan etc who have been working hard every shift or "talented" guys like Heatley , Alfreddson and Spezza who have shown cant win as a team.??Your argument that the teams will adjust to the forecheck, WHY is this the case. I am sure that the Ottawa Senators had plenty of tape and time to watch the Leafs in their previous games and they didnt adjust, The bruins didnt adjust. Its not a light switch you turn. It has been shown time after time in professional sports that talent doesnt win championships. Hard work and a good system does. Obviously you need talented players and those are easy to get.The way I see it is the Leafs will compete this year, and possibly make the playoffs. In the off season they will have a lot of money to spend on talented first line players, and voila they are a serious contender. Also obviously they will have to draft well and make solid trades.Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning on paper they are a very talented team, possibly one of the best in hockey. But they still havent found a way to win. I dont think Barry Melrose is half the coach Ron Wilson is.

[serge 904]

Ok, I'm a Habs fan living in Toronto, which makes me kind of biased, but to say the Leafs have NO talent is beyond stupid. In reponse, I have 2 words: Luke ShennAside from, yes, some glaring holes on their team (ie: overall goaltending, lack of a true goal scorer and no superstar names, etc), the new Leafs are a bunch of blue collar boys who actually have to work for a win and guess what? This is going to give them the grit and determination that will cause them to eke out a few more victories than people were thinking. Learning a new system and having 4 lines that can grind is better than having some high priced prima donnas on your team.Go, Leafs, go! Except when playing the Habs, of course, who got creamed by the Ducks the other night lol...PS: It's been a while since I've seen a Leafs team forechecking as effectively as this one is...

please post here more often...Obviously you are smarter than most of the nay sayers.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Who would you like to have, a team of hard working guys like Moore,Grabovski,Antropov,Pony, Steen and Stajan etc who have been working hard every shift or "talented" guys like Heatley , Alfreddson and Spezza who have shown cant win as a team.??It has been shown time after time in professional sports that talent doesnt win championships. Hard work and a good system does. Obviously you need talented players and those are easy to get.

Serge, these two paragraphs dont make sense. In the first one, you said youd rather have hard working guys than lazy talented players. That its hard work that wins championships.But then you say "obviously you need talented players". Do you? And if you do, why? And how easy is to get talented players, who are NOT lazy?lets see if you and I can have a discussion on the Leafs without the usual FCP slamming of each other!

[serge 904]

Serge, these two paragraphs dont make sense. In the first one, you said youd rather have hard working guys than lazy talented players. That its hard work that wins championships.But then you say "obviously you need talented players". Do you? And if you do, why? And how easy is to get talented players, who are NOT lazy?lets see if you and I can have a discussion on the Leafs without the usual FCP slamming of each other!

Fair enough..I love the discussion...I think what the Leafs are doing is laying the foundation..They obviously arent going to win a championship with the roster they have now,but its a system and a foundation...To get talented players there are a few ways..One way is obviously through the draft. Its a misconception that you have to finish last to get talented players..NOT TRUE, look at the Detroit Red Wings. I have said the whole notion that winning now is bad is propestorous...They can win while rebuilding. Also the key is to add free agents that will work with the system. These will be your talented players as well..Do you need talented players to win a cup YES, do they need to be Ovechkin,Crosby, Malkin NOJust think how good this team would look say with a line of Gaborik , Spezza and Tanguay.Now I am just throwing those names out there( by no means do I think those players would necessarily come) .However either next year or in two years the team will be in a position to spend a lot of money. Also just because a guy like Spezza isnt working out in Ottawa(well thats a big statement and remains to be seen) doesnt mean he wouldnt flourish with different teammates in a different system.The conventional way of thinking has been build a franchise like Pittsburgh. First of all thats not going to happen. They were lucky to win the lottery at the right time and get the players they did. Just look at the La Kings, they have missed the playoffs 5 years in a row, and they arent that much closer to becoming a good team.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I think what the Leafs are doing is laying the foundation..They obviously arent going to win a championship with the roster they have now,but its a system and a foundation...To get talented players there are a few ways..One way is obviously through the draft. Its a misconception that you have to finish last to get talented players..NOT TRUE, look at the Detroit Red Wings. I have said the whole notion that winning now is bad is propestorous...They can win while rebuilding. Also the key is to add free agents that will work with the system. These will be your talented players as well..

I agree and like the thought of laying the foundation and setting up an atmosphere of hard work and teamwork. I think teamwork is one of the most underrated parts of the Red Wings philosphy. Everyone always talks about drafting this guy and that guy, but its also because they get guys to buy into their system, and they all play within it, lines 1-4, all 6 D. They move that puck around like magicians sometimes. Yes Datysuk and Zetterb are good picks, but a guy like Franzen is flourishing because of the team he plays for, in my opinion.As far as drafting like Detroit, I think you need a much better base of existing players, and it's also rare to find such good players so late. Can it be done? yes. Will it? I wouldnt bet on it. Better to have 3 first rounders and hit big on at least one, then try to find a gem in 10picks in rounds 5+6.The Leafs as they currently sit I don't think can expect to win a Cup by adding only free agents, no matter how good. I think they need 2/3 more drafts of top players, and hope to find other Luke Schenn type top players, specificially looking into top offensive players, and I would even suggest a goalie. (i think they should look into trading Toskala this year or next summer)Then, you would have a base to build on and could overpay for top free agents (as everyone does) and still fit under the cap and prosper, if thats your plan.I worry this start is merely a mirage, and truly not helping the cause of a Stanley Cup. Where I think you and I disagree is that you want the Leafs to be as good as possible for the next few years and try to win a Cup in the meantime. I think, they need to build with youth and care only about 2010 and beyond. Set a date, and build towards it. If you see a deal where Toskala nets you a guy like Filatov/Boedker, go get him. And if you lose now, so be it, even better chance to draft the truly top players coming into the NHL, the Stamkos/Lecavaliers/Ovechkin/Jokinens of the league. yes, you dont need one to win the Cup......but it certainly helps.

The conventional way of thinking has been build a franchise like Pittsburgh. First of all thats not going to happen. They were lucky to win the lottery at the right time and get the players they did. Just look at the La Kings, they have missed the playoffs 5 years in a row, and they arent that much closer to becoming a good team.

These aren't good examples, I think. Pittsburgh while lucky to win the Crosby sweepstakes, really would still be a very good team even without him in my opinion. Not this good of course, but still playoffs with an eye on a possible Cup run soon. They're success is obviously from drafting ok after being so bad for so long. I say ok, only because its hard to screw up taking Malkin at #2, or Fluery at first overall.Los Angeles....their time is coming. They got sent back 2 years because of some screwups about a year or so ago. Slowly they will become a good team, with young talent, who will try exactly what you suggest....getting top talent thru free agency, or as Phoenix did, trade depth for an Ollie Jokinen type player. And they already have some young players showing top level talent, in guys like Brown and Kopitar.

[serge 904]

Very good points you make...I agree with a lot of them....I am pretty sure this isnt a mirage, and the Leafs will compete every night. They have played solid against some tough teams already and have competed with them. Actually if it wasnt for the ineffectiveness of the Shootout we would have a couple of more points .When Chris comes in and says this team has no talent, then I know he is the one who is a little misguided here.Luke Schenn is going to be very soon, considered one of the top young dman in the league. Unfortunately since he doesnt score he wont get the accolades as much. But this kid is the real deal.Tomas Kaberle is an all star puck moving dman. If he doesnt have any talent, 90 % of the league is not talented.Nik Antropov is a very talented player. He may not be Malkin but he is big, can shoot and understands the game.I can go down the line and make show that this is a talented team...Yes they arent allstars, but they are deep...Whats wrong with having a team full of second line players, as long as they are working hard and growing together...First line players can be bought, and they will

[serge 904]

Its official the human eraser will stay with the Leafs..Very good news.http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/team/app/?servic...rticleid=388922

[Whiter Sr 0]

Its official the "human eraser" will stay with the Leafs..

Pierre McGuire while enthusiastic really bothers me as a commentator. That is all.

[Whiter Sr 0]

How do you think Finger played in his debut Serge? I didn't catch much of the game Saturday night.

[Speed Limit 0]

Its official the human eraser will stay with the Leafs..Very good news.http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/team/app/?servic...rticleid=388922

Kinda surprising for me, I was almost completely convinced that no matter what Schenn does that he'd be shortly packing his bags. I think it might have been better for him to do so, but we'll see.

[serge 904]

How do you think Finger played in his debut Serge? I didn't catch much of the game Saturday night.

Played about 18 minutes..Pretty solid uneventful. You dont want to notice a guy like that too much. His conditioning I think is a bit off and he will need a couple of games..Overall I think he is a solid dman, and great for this system.

[serge 904]

Kinda surprising for me, I was almost completely convinced that no matter what Schenn does that he'd be shortly packing his bags. I think it might have been better for him to do so, but we'll see.

Fletcher said he would have to blow us away to keep him..An honestly he has blown them away..He plays over 20 minutes a game, without any PP time. He plays against the other teams top guys in crucial situations. He was the first star on Saturday night. He is a top 4 dman, if not top 2...Going back to junior and not getting a chance to play against the world best players, wont do him any good IMO..If he was only playing 8-10 minutes a game, I agree he shouldnt be here.But he is good ....I am interested to see what the other teams will do with the other 18 year old dmen?