Michael Moores "sicko"

[chaosnhavoc 0]

Michael moore is a P.O.S. and I would not be upset if he died tomorrow in a horrible plane crash (the pilots surviving on some miracle.)He distorts the truth, only follows up leads supporting his own agenda, and is overall a complete bag of deuche.40 and a shovel

But dosent the News, and the Goverment do the same?

[rogerwilco 0]

Bottom line its a matter of what the viewer takes from it not the film maker. The guy that made Aliens doesnt have to believe in Aliens to make a movie and make money. But if the movie has insite that they do exist its still upto the viewer to use their judgment and make a decision.Trust me I am not for His movies but I am for some of the things his movies do. This argument can go on forever and I am sure it will. So I am leaving it alone .

That's naive, of course filmmakers can influence (or at least try to influence) their viewers opinions in lots of different subtle ways. That can be harmless, like how the background music changes to make a scene more suspenseful or not so harmless if someone's statements get taken out of context to give the viewers a wrong impression of this person in a documentary. Different people might be able to identify these influences better or worse, but to deny that it is possible for filmmakers to do such things and make the viewers think or feel what he wants them to, is absurd.

[chaosnhavoc 0]

That's naive, of course filmmakers can influence (or at least try to influence) their viewers opinions in lots of different subtle ways. That can be harmless, like how the background music changes to make a scene more suspenseful or not so harmless if someone's statements get taken out of context to give the viewers a wrong impression of this person in a documentary. Different people might be able to identify these influences better or worse, but to deny that it is possible for filmmakers to do such things and make the viewers think or feel what he wants them to, is absurd.

I am not denying that filmmakers can influence.. Everything around us influences us. My point was that people need to be accountable for their own opinions. We blame to much of our countries bull **** on other things. We can all correct that by not believing 100 percent in things that media and government tell us. Have and form our own opinions and act accordingly. People need to educate themselves on all views of a subject and THINK. Not follow their friends, religion, political party etc..

[chaosnhavoc 0]

That's naive, of course filmmakers can influence (or at least try to influence) their viewers opinions in lots of different subtle ways. That can be harmless, like how the background music changes to make a scene more suspenseful or not so harmless if someone's statements get taken out of context to give the viewers a wrong impression of this person in a documentary. Different people might be able to identify these influences better or worse, but to deny that it is possible for filmmakers to do such things and make the viewers think or feel what he wants them to, is absurd.

And where did I say filmakers dont influence us. I just put the responsibility on the viewers.

[rogerwilco 0]

I am not denying that filmmakers can influence.. Everything around us influences us. My point was that people need to be accountable for their own opinions. We blame to much of our countries bull **** on other things. We can all correct that by not believing 100 percent in things that media and government tell us. Have and form our own opinions and act accordingly. People need to educate themselves on all views of a subject and THINK. Not follow their friends, religion, political party etc..

I agree with that 100%. I see Michael Moore's films more like a commentary piece in a newspaper instead of a regular article, which has it's place in my opinion.

[rogerwilco 0]

And where did I say filmakers dont influence us. I just put the responsibility on the viewers.

Well, my point was that filmmakers are really good at doing that in ways that are very difficult to detect - they have more than a century of experience in that after all. Michael Moore is mostly rather blatant though, everyone know where he stands in the films he makes. And I do agree, that in the end the viewers should form their own opinions themselves. Most of the criticism against Moore is exaggerated I think.

[TR1N1TY 0]

there is no question that his films have a 'spin' on them.the topic and/or discussion at hand is that he illustrates enough FACTS in his films to make his alleged 'political agenda' irrelevant.Michael Moore inspires debate and discussion of ISSUES

[chaosnhavoc 0]

there is no question that his films have a 'spin' on them.the topic and/or discussion at hand is that he illustrates enough FACTS in his films to make his alleged 'political agenda' irrelevant.Michael Moore inspires debate and discussion of ISSUES

Yes ISSUES this country is full of them. And it wont be corrected in our generation or our childrens generation but Going against the grain will cause splinters and when America has enough splinters maybe a change can be made.And the Healthcare in this Country is a crime! I am self-employed and for a family of three I pay 900 a month. Last year 600 a month. I only have it because of my daughter, and my wife who has perscriptions. Other than that I would say **** you and save the 900 a month and use it when I needed it. Or at the end of the year go on an extra vacation and start over the following year.

[Sid Simelia 0]

just watch the video dorks. http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=1762 The theme of this thread is directed at the fact that I think its a good possibility that he leaked a copy to get on the net 2 weeks before the theatrical release to pump up the buzz on this movie even more before mister and mrs nuclear fat f**k in wichita kansas goes to the theater to see it.This is a great PR move any way you slice it.

Why you gotta bring Wichita in to it?

[Czech Razor 0]

Anyway, point is that I guess it's not out in theaters until June 29th but there are copies on the net already. http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=1762

Hate to break this to you, cupcake. You can find almost any movie via P2P software before it comes out much the same as you can find a cd.DVD copies are produced and distributed in small circles on top of pre-screenings in theaters, so that's how a DVD copy could be out already. I've been able to download a number of these over the years like The Ring, The Matrix, The Departed, etc. etc.

[Adam_g 0]

Wow a debate! Good thing we have a few of the typical "I know nothing, but ummm he should die!!!!!" posts to remind us we are in the General forum!!!!Is there a gun problem here.... ummm yeahHealthcare problem......ummm yeahHE may push the envelope on the truth on certain points, but his overall topics/thesis seems to usually be right on. Maybe he just does this to get a point across? If the documentaries were boring and non controversial would anyone be talking about them right now..... Probably not.. Guess it worked

[Whalers2005 0]

ok need link for the movie..

[Adam_g 0]

ok need link for the movie..

I'm sure if you do a search here you can find the torrenthttp://thepiratebay.org/

[Czech Razor 0]

I'm sure if you do a search here you can find the torrenthttp://thepiratebay.org/

Yeah. You could also check Limewire or eMule Plus. The latter is really good - the fake all get labeled and deleted with the quickness and I've never found anything with a virus in 5 years of using eDonkey/eMule.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

THis is probably going to shock the conservative posters of this forum, but I can't fcking stand Micheal Moore. I used to love him.. Roger and Me was the first documentary that I ever truly loved, and it really captured how GM's closing of the plants basically destroyed Flint Michigan.. it was an incredibly moving and sad and cleaver documentary, great use of music, completely engaging, it had a narrative voice that made sense. When he had a couple different TV shows, I loved them. they were really funny, and sure he would use some cheap tactics, but, over all they were entertaining shows. My favorite bit was when he made up these fictitious organizations Like "Satanists for Dole" and what ever, and gave campaign donations, to see if the candidates would cash the checks. However, I started getting disillusioned with Moore in Bowling for Columbine.. I thought he was making some huge jumps in logic, blaming the missile plant near by for the shootings... I felt that he took a sad and tragic event, that had much more to do with mental illness and alienation of modern culture than it does with nukes, and just used it to push his own political agenda. The Heston Interview I thought was kind of funny, but I mean.. it's a pretty low forum of humor, to take advantage of a man's senile to get him to say something damning.. There are plenty of Gun advocates who are actually coherent that Moore could have interviewed if he had any balls...But it was 9/11 that really turned me off moore.. The movie was such a cheap, clear piece of propaganda, put out clearly to influence the 2004 election. Moore completely betrayed his art in that film, just playing into all the fears and all the paranoia without offering much in the way of facts. Things like damning Bush because he kept reading to the children are just patently unfair. Listen, I'm no fan of Bush, believe me.. but ... what the fck did he expect Bush to do, Jump to his feet, tear off his suit to reveal a big red S underneath it, and go flying out the window to save the day? The movie was just sloppy, low brow, propaganda.. anyone with a brain and some objectivity could see it.. I watched the movie in Olympia, Washington, a radically liberal place, and the room stood up and cheered after the movie was over, applauding like crazy, and that's really when I knew I wasn't part of the radical left.. Because these people are just stupid, and if you're willing to turn off your brain and have blind, uncritical faith in anything, be it Micheal Moore or Rush Limbaugh or Pope John Paul II, then I've got nothing but contempt for you. I am mildly curious about this new movie, I think health care in America is a great problem, I don't think, in a country as wealthy as ours, that if you get sick, if you're rich you should live and if you're poor you should die. But I have exactly 0 faith in Moore's ability to present a reasoned argument in favor of a national health care system. a.. I think he's driven now by fame, and trying to solidify his place as a leftist icon. I think he's a huckster, and an Al Sharpton of film making.. But most of all, I think he makes crap movies now, he's betrayed his art, and I care much more about artistic integrity than I do about political agendas.

[theresa113 0]

I merged the two topics and deleted your duplicate Big D.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I merged the two topics and deleted your duplicate Big D.

that's why they pay you the big bucks

[jmkiser 0]

Are we acting like Michael Moore is the only *** that splices information to support his own point of view? We all recognize that he does, but why don't we recognize the equally guilty Sean Hannity?I know this isn't a post about Hannity, but to be surprised and up in arms about the media he puts out is silly.Moore is like every other person with a set point of view system (nationalist, democrat, republican, creationist, religious, etc). They make their story and they search for the facts to "fill in the blanks". If they find enough facts to do so, they look more credible.It was pointed out that we can't deny the facts such as the high rate of handgun deaths in this country. And that's true, we can't... but so what? I feel safer in areas where I know armed and trained citizens exist then otherwise.Go out and watch his movie. If you think he missed out on some facts, come here and give us the important details. If you think he was misleading with his information, tell us why. If you think he was lying, give us the real facts. But don't come here and say "that idiot ************ is such an idiot who deserves to be shot" That doesn't say anything

[bobbywithani 0]

But it was 9/11 that really turned me off moore.. The movie was such a cheap, clear piece of propaganda, put out clearly to influence the 2004 election. Moore completely betrayed his art in that film, just playing into all the fears and all the paranoia without offering much in the way of facts. Things like damning Bush because he kept reading to the children are just patently unfair. Listen, I'm no fan of Bush, believe me.. but ... what the fck did he expect Bush to do, Jump to his feet, tear off his suit to reveal a big red S underneath it, and go flying out the window to save the day? The movie was just sloppy, low brow, propaganda.. anyone with a brain and some objectivity could see it.. I watched the movie in Olympia, Washington, a radically liberal place, and the room stood up and cheered after the movie was over, applauding like crazy, and that's really when I knew I wasn't part of the radical left.. Because these people are just stupid, and if you're willing to turn off your brain and have blind, uncritical faith in anything, be it Micheal Moore or Rush Limbaugh or Pope John Paul II, then I've got nothing but contempt for you. I am mildly curious about this new movie, I think health care in America is a great problem, I don't think, in a country as wealthy as ours, that if you get sick, if you're rich you should live and if you're poor you should die. But I have exactly 0 faith in Moore's ability to present a reasoned argument in favor of a national health care system. a.. I think he's driven now by fame, and trying to solidify his place as a leftist icon. I think he's a huckster, and an Al Sharpton of film making.. But most of all, I think he makes crap movies now, he's betrayed his art, and I care much more about artistic integrity than I do about political agendas.

Exactly when they showed him in that room full of children I wanted to punch the screen. That was pandering to peoples emotions in it's lowest form. After that movie was over there were people waiting outside from the Kerry Campaign, I told them all I was a staunch Bush supporter just to piss them off. People blindly follow whatever side they are on and are unwilling to see when one of their own for his faults. Well maybe some are just scared to be called a republican or something. Whenever you bring up how you disagree with Moore, or any other big name leftist the conversation goes something like this."No I don't support propoganda meant to lead the masses to just follow one mans ideas as opposed giving people information that they can use and hopefully come to a well thought conclusion on how our world should be""But dude GW is so bad, I mean we should just do anything to get rid of him""I don't believe that, I'm not going to just give my support to anyone that isn't Bush""But things are so bad now""Things have been bad for a while now, and when you think that all the things that are wrong with this country are going to magically go away if we get a Democrat in the White House, you are just fooling yourself.""Nobody died while Clinton lied.""Keep telling yourself that, of course that's what you think because a lot of the left's representation in the media is just a front for the Democratic party, what about Kosovo?""Well dude you might as well be supporting Bush and the Republicans because with that kind of attitude they are going to win again""Sort of like 'either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists' right?"Of course throw a few more beers in there and me getting a little more pissed off, but you see where I'm going.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Are we acting like Michael Moore is the only *** that splices information to support his own point of view? We all recognize that he does, but why don't we recognize the equally guilty Sean Hannity?I know this isn't a post about Hannity, but to be surprised and up in arms about the media he puts out is silly.Moore is like every other person with a set point of view system (nationalist, democrat, republican, creationist, religious, etc). They make their story and they search for the facts to "fill in the blanks". If they find enough facts to do so, they look more credible.It was pointed out that we can't deny the facts such as the high rate of handgun deaths in this country. And that's true, we can't... but so what? I feel safer in areas where I know armed and trained citizens exist then otherwise.Go out and watch his movie. If you think he missed out on some facts, come here and give us the important details. If you think he was misleading with his information, tell us why. If you think he was lying, give us the real facts. But don't come here and say "that idiot ************ is such an idiot who deserves to be shot" That doesn't say anything

yeah, I think I'll just pass all together.. there are plenty of places I can get facts about the healthcare system that don't make me eat a plate full of smug.

[mrdannyg 274]

Canadians making fun of the healthcare system of the US while ignoring or not being educated about their own is ridiculous. Forgive me for not being more concise.I didn't say that canadians shouldn't be allowed to discuss this, but I certainly feel that they should have a firm grasp of their own system before criticizing ours. I completely agree with your last paragraph, except for the fact that 'he points out important issues and addresses points and areas that are often ignored'. I disagree that he brings up points that are often ignored. I ignore him for the reasons you gave, he cherry picks facts, takes things out of context, and is totally biased and one sided.

I don't see how Canadians need to understand their own system before 'mocking' the Americans'. We're not saying ours is better, just criticizing yours.And I'll accept your point that he doesn't really bring up 'often ignored' points and areas. I would argue they're not discussed enough in the mainstream, but he's not exactly bringing new issues to light.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think Michael Moore knew full well that it would get leaked (ahead of its theatrical release date) and was probably behind getting it leaked in the first place. This guy is brilliant....he sure knows how to fire up a buzz on his movies. always inspiring controversy and forcing us all to discuss hard issues. what a great PR move if he actually said...'get it on the net two weeks before it comes out in theaters' LOL I honestly don't think he gives a flying f**k about profit. This guy is an activist in every sense of the word. Its a miracle the Bush administration hasn't dispatched a fleet of black Ford Explorers to his house in the middle of the night to wipe him out.

Then why does he own Halliburton stock?

He owns tens of thousands of shares - including nearly 2,000 shares of Boeing, nearly 1,000 of Sonoco, more than 4,000 of Best Foods, more than 3,000 of Eli Lilly, more than 8,000 of Bank One and more than 2,000 of Halliburton

Link to quoteHe is only about money. What's sad is that there are enough people who don't care about facts, as long as Bush or the government is blamed.Neither Bush nor the government is perfect, but they aren't the evil manipulators that Moore wants you to think.and Fahrenhype 911 pretty much points out a ton of the lies he used in that movie, my favorite was the letter to the editor that he spliced to make it look like it was a news story from a large paper.Here's a link to 59 lies that Moore spread in that movie, with many of his attempts to answer them ( poorly )59 liesMany people though the jews were evil after watching propaganda films in Germany. They are too powerful to allow people that lie to make them.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

He is only about money.

I think it's a little more than that.. I think he's about the fame, too.. Fame can be an addicting drug, and he gorges on it like he does cheeseburgers... agreeing with you on something makes me feel dirty.. I need to take a shower.

[barrec 0]

i am an admitted leftist. though i've voted democrat in the past, idealistically i lay farther left on the politically spectrum. and to that end, almost all of my political view points coincide with michael moore's. OF COURSE his movies are propaganda. i doubt most people would argue with that statement. but the biggest problem people seem to have with his movies is how they are presented as documentaries instead of the propaganda that i believe they are. i don't fool myself into thinking there isn't some sort of slant to it. but i think people who don't agree with this brand of propaganda are too quick to forget about every other piece of propaganda out there that supports their point of view (coming from conservative news networks, talk show hosts, and the government itself (of any government holding office)). just about everything put out through one media source or another is going to have slant, agenda or alterior motive behind it. if you want a true, "neutral documentary," you might have to revert to andy warhol's "Empire". some consider that to be the only true documentary ever filmed. incidentally, i was also very angry after watching farenheit 9/11. not at michael moore, though.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

i am an admitted leftist. though i've voted democrat in the past, idealistically i lay farther left on the politically spectrum. and to that end, almost all of my political view points coincide with michael moore's. OF COURSE his movies are propaganda. i doubt most people would argue with that statement. but the biggest problem people seem to have with his movies is how they are presented as documentaries instead of the propaganda that i believe they are. i don't fool myself into thinking there isn't some sort of slant to it. but i think people who don't agree with this brand of propaganda are too quick to forget about every other piece of propaganda out there that supports their point of view (coming from conservative news networks, talk show hosts, and the government itself (of any government holding office)). just about everything put out through one media source or another is going to have slant, agenda or alterior motive behind it. if you want a true, "neutral documentary," you might have to revert to andy warhol's "Empire". some consider that to be the only true documentary ever filmed. incidentally, i was also very angry after watching farenheit 9/11. not at michael moore, though.

Yes, Documentarians have a slant when making a film. Some good one's try as hard as possible to present the material value neutral ( which is impossible, but trying is at least admirable)... others are open and honest about their bias.. but what makes Moore a Propagandist is that he puts out lies, and presents them as truths... that is just a sin for a Documentarian. If you want to see a liberal documentary with an obvious bias that still was able to present facts, I submit " the trials of Henry Kissenger", based on Christopher Hitchens book, about Kissenger's war crimes and the attempt to try him for it. If you finish watching that movie, and you aren't infuriated with Kissenger, you either aren't human, or you were asleep during the movie. There are plenty of facts to damn the Bush administration. You don't need to distort the truth beyond repair, just so you can create buzz for a movie... I think 9/11 is seriously one of the worst movies of all time, and it breaks my heart, because I used to love Moore as a film maker so much. But he's a traitor to his craft, plain and simple.