Rams Reply

[SwedishAnna 0]

I was just making up numbers as I actually did not work out the math. But, what I meant by that post was that since Ram claimed he lost by over 100 shots and that all three combined to lose over $1.8 million, then I figured that my numbers aren't that far off.

I believe the handicap Phil played to when they first played was 26 .... so par for him would be 98 on a 72 par ... added to that that Phil scored in the region of 13 on a par 3 hole .. amazingly on the hole where Ram scored 14 .(I'm not suggesting any impropriety here) .. in Golf handicap terms that 13 would be disregarded and reduced to a 5 ... giving a true score of 8 less... so he claimed a 90 ... less 8 is 82 .. Thats pretty decent shooting for a 26 handicapper.But hey....

[low limit pro 0]

Ivey has done absolutely nothing wrong and should be paid all of the money.

first of all obviously i know nothing about this whole thing, except what ram and you wrote.what i ask myself is this: if ivey did NOTHING wrong, how come they met to see if the handicaps were fair. and came to the conclusion it wasnt fair, and ivey already agreed on figuring out the amount he should have won if the handicaps were acurrate?thats what ram wrote right? they wanted to see what the amount would have been, and he said no the match is void.if it happened like that, and ivey already caved in, theres gotta be something he did wrong. what juanda said (on aussie millions i believe) did sound serious, as well as iveys answer.i believe this is a serious matter, do you think iveys "friend" juanda would needle him in a situation like this, the way he did?what kind of friend would that be, nobody gets that was just fun, except you maybe, and you know them well.now i dont claim an opinion in this thing, i dont know about golf, and i dont know the people involved. still, this makes no sense to me, maybe you can explan whats with that daniel.

[SwedishAnna 0]

"The enemy of truth is not lies but conviction".... I now believe both sides are convinced they are right.... A cultural thing? Perhaps a "misunderstanding" between the rules of golf (and handicaps- whereby it's self regulation and not playing to a fair handicap for your ability is regarded as cheating ) and proposition betting (Caveat Emptor).... Both sides are convinced of their position and that the other side is behaving appallingly. I know Marc and Ram very well and know them to be honourable ... Phil I've only met a few times .....

[fatshaft 0]

Yes CLEARLY Mr Sigmund Freud

Glad you agree with something Volume, most of what you say is just noise

[fatshaft 0]

Glad you agree with something Volume, most of what you say is just noise

I believe this has been settled, does anyone know the outcome?

[PairTheBoard 0]

I believe this has been settled, does anyone know the outcome?

The latest report at 2+2 is that 3 Arbitrators were agreed to by the people involved and that they all agreed to abide by the decision of the Aribitrators. The 2+2 report is that the Arbitrators all ruled in favor of Ivey. No word on whether payment has yet been made. I suspect the complete specific terms of the decision and payment agreement will never be disclosed. If they all stop talking about it I would conclude it's settled and behind them.PairTheBoard

[lordofelt 0]

The latest report at 2+2 is that 3 Arbitrators were agreed to by the people involved and that they all agreed to abide by the decision of the Aribitrators. The 2+2 report is that the Arbitrators all ruled in favor of Ivey. No word on whether payment has yet been made. I suspect the complete specific terms of the decision and payment agreement will never be disclosed. If they all stop talking about it I would conclude it's settled and behind them.PairTheBoard

I'm not really familiar with the 2+2 board link please someone?

[AKoffsuit 0]

I'm not really familiar with the 2+2 board link please someone?

http://www.twoplustwo.com/Here's the link to the whole topic:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...=1#Post10022821

[lordofelt 0]

http://www.twoplustwo.com/Here's the link to the whole topic:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...=1#Post10022821

My god this thread is long anyone know where Greenstein charms in?ThanksEdit: found it but it still doesn't mention what the settlement was or did I miss it?

[TRB05 1]

"Obviously your not a golfer"

This made me laugh

[low limit pro 0]

This made me laugh

lol me too, just saw that movie recently

[All_In 0]

it really isn't that hard to have a handicap..there are many free sites on the 'net that will do it for u, u just have to enter the score, and if u want, GIR, fairways hit & putts. it is very cool, if u r into golf and stats..me and my friends use a site and that is how we go about making fair matches.

[low limit pro 0]

I now believe both sides are convinced they are right.... A cultural thing?

i believe ram claims they have won something like 50-100k from phil ivey prior to the big loss. and negreanu claims phil said something like 230k i believe. so theres at least one thing were somebody must be lying,edit: but since all of the parties concerned had a good reputation at highstakes gambling, i understand your point, i thing such a reputation must be deserved.so its kinda hard to believe that anyone of them would cheat.. 1.700k is a very big number, but considering the stakes they usually gamble at, its probably not AS BIG as it sounds to us mortal people : )

[Whiter Sr 0]

it really isn't that hard to have a handicap..there are many free sites on the 'net that will do it for u, u just have to enter the score, and if u want, GIR, fairways hit & putts. it is very cool, if u r into golf and stats..me and my friends use a site and that is how we go about making fair matches.

Which site is that?

[fatshaft 0]

Dignified and pertinent response? Ram didn't say anything we didn't already know from that side.But from his post I now know Barry Greenstein is on Phil's side also.Along with:Daniel NegreanuTodd BrunsonDoyle BrunsonAnd a lot of other pros.Ram will man up and pay sooner or later.

Seems that Daniel has now flip flopped totally on this issue according to his latest comments on Russ Hamilton & golf. It would seem that Daniel would now take Ram's side on this issue if it were to be gone over again today.

[robgibraltar 0]

Seems that Daniel has now flip flopped totally on this issue according to his latest comments on Russ Hamilton & golf. It would seem that Daniel would now take Ram's side on this issue if it were to be gone over again today.

I've asked this question in a new posthttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=125643I'm wondering if DN's comment was taken out of context? As it does appear that he slated Hamilton for deceiving someone with their golf hamilton, and yet PI reportedly did the same thing?

[Balloon guy 158]

I've asked this question in a new posthttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=125643I'm wondering if DN's comment was taken out of context? As it does appear that he slated Hamilton for deceiving someone with their golf hamilton, and yet PI reportedly did the same thing?

An yet the 3 arbitrers chosen by both parties all said Phil was in the right.And Ram was unable to figure out PI was scamming him for 3 rounds of golf?Now if you get scammed once, shame on them, but if you come back 2 more times for the same scam..who's the shame on?

[All_In 0]

I also think that is the main point. A close second is the fact that lying about your hcp/abilility in golf is seen as serious cheating on this side of the atlantic.It's also seen as serious cheating from where I sit - and that is in Toronto, Canada. Mr. Negreanu also sees it as cheating, and I know this because he wrote a blog about it last year, about a guy who misrepresents his golf abilities in order to get overwhelmingly favourable odds. And he didn't write that blog implying he condoned it - quite the contrary.

yes, i remember that one as well.

[All_In 0]

John Juanda and Phil Ivey are actually very good friends. Good friends that are happy to needle each other at every opportunity. I can guarantee you that if you asked Juanda whether or not Ram should pay the full amount, he would say absolutely.

but he would lose his soul.

[EStormOk 0]

but he would lose his soul.

Juanda lost his sole a long time ago in a game of poker pool at a little pool hall in Stillwater...Oh, wait you said soul, didn't know John could dance....

[copernicus 0]

hus·tle -tled, -tling, noun –verb (used without object) 1. to proceed or work rapidly or energetically: to hustle about putting a house in order. 2. to push or force one's way; jostle or shove. 3. to be aggressive, esp. in business or other financial dealings. 4. Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means. 5. Slang. (of a prostitute) to solicit clients. –verb (used with object) 6. to convey or cause to move, esp. to leave, roughly or hurriedly: They hustled him out of the bar. 7. to pressure or coerce (a person) to buy or do something: to hustle the customers into buying more drinks. 8. to urge, prod, or speed up: Hustle your work along. 9. to obtain by aggressive or illicit means: He could always hustle a buck or two from some sucker. 10. to beg; solicit. 11. to sell in or work (an area), esp. by high-pressure tactics: The souvenir venders began hustling the town at dawn. 12. to sell aggressively: to hustle souvenirs. 13. to jostle, push, or shove roughly. 14. Slang. to induce (someone) to gamble or to promote (a gambling game) when the odds of winning are overwhelmingly in one's own favor. 15. Slang. to cheat; swindle: They hustled him out of his savings. 16. Slang. a. (of a prostitute) to solicit (someone). b. to attempt to persuade (someone) to have sexual relations. c. to promote or publicize in a lively, vigorous, or aggressive manner: an author hustling her new book on the TV talk shows. –noun 17. energetic activity, as in work. 18. discourteous shoving, pushing, or jostling. 19. Slang. a. an inducing by fraud, pressure, or deception, esp. of inexperienced or uninformed persons, to buy something, to participate in an illicit scheme, dishonest gambling game, etc. b. such a product, scheme, gambling game, etc. 20. Informal. a competitive struggle: the hustle to earn a living. 21. a fast, lively, popular ballroom dance evolving from Latin American, swing, rock, and disco dance styles, with a strong basic rhythm and simple step pattern augmented by strenuous turns, breaks, etc.

Why not highlight 14, which, being a lower number, is a more preferred definition? If you think Ivey "cheated" youre just a whiny little runt who should never take a prop bet, because you'll be sure to have the worst of it.