irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 10. The reason Phil has never defended himself is that he is a private person, and he didn't even know these forums existed until I told him about what was being posted. I have a feeling Phil may have someting to say or write once this is settled. This is nonesense. DN has already stated that Ivey knew he was making his original post. How is this nonsense? Barry didn't mention a time frame as to when he informed Ivey of this perhaps he told Ivey prior to DN blog regarding the issue. The fact that this is the only part of Barry's post that stood out to you and a number of people on other forums is a little odd. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Tell you what, we'll give you that Phil Ivey might have actually known that there was an internet, that people chatted on it, and that they were talking about him. How much less does Ram owe now?Ah, that made me laugh. Link to post Share on other sites
Aces88 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 The options the guys had.1.They played.They lost.They paid for the match.If they felt a need to expresse themselfes publically and kept it real, about how bad they played,about how they made some less great decisions, they would gained positive rep.2.They played.They lost. they did STFU and privately tell ivey they did seriously disagree,paid him all the money theywon from him on the golf courses, that would been acceptable and been Thats That.3.what they did choose was.Play.Loose.Start up a negative branding campaign with words like, cheater,conner,hustler,decieverThey continued it on the internet. Do they have any other options now then pay the faull amount for the games? No.Is this a difficult case, with any gray areas worthy to argue about? Lol-NoThe yacking about, culture differences, Honesty, and the semantic little games is very silly.It could been an amusing read, almost Hellmuth class, if it was possible to subtract Mark and Rams negative intentions withthe blogs.Too bad the soup they cooked leaves a very annoying bitter ugly aftertaste.Peace Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 10. The reason Phil has never defended himself is that he is a private person, and he didn't even know these forums existed until I told him about what was being posted. I have a feeling Phil may have someting to say or write once this is settled. This is nonesense. DN has already stated that Ivey knew he was making his original post.Barry's post is excellent, until you get to the final post, if this is a direct quote from Ivey, then how can you believe the other 9 points. Are we expected to believe that the best poker player on the planet has no knowledge of the biggest poker forum on the internet, or indeed any forums as stated here? Certainly doesn't help in showing him as a character who speaks truthfully. Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 This is a very simlilar defense that the Hendon Mob tried to make:Since # 10 might be wrong, let's discount the rest.Tell you what, we'll give you that Phil Ivey might have actually known that there was an internet, that people chatted on it, and that they were talking about him. How much less does Ram owe now?Goes to credibility of the witness, at least it would where I had my legal training on Shark or LA Law or Ally MacBeal Link to post Share on other sites
James D 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I got this from the Hendon Mob site, and they got it from the 2+2 site:Barry Greenstein wrote:Do you know what the general concensus is on 2+2? Seeing as they would probably be more un-biased than both here and Hendonmob.If you don't know, it's cool, I'll look later... but it seems like you've been doing some fishing around Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I bet a view at the scorecards would change a few tunes around here.The real hustle here is this:Phil has been getting one on one coaching for months, and the best he can do is shoot 92?????On to evidence of that video from the Aussie millions where all the big guns from FT go golfing, Ivey looks like he has a very poor swing, and an 18 h/cap would seem to be optomistic. I would be very interested in the actual scores that were taken, as it was matchplay there won't be scores, but they will all have an idea of what approxiamately was scored. If Ivey has scored around 90+ then I switch sides. Link to post Share on other sites
Muck, You Suckers! 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Here is the link to the 2+2 thread page where Barry Greenstein posted. 2+2 Barry Greenstein post Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I honestly feel that a lot the negativity being shown to Ivey on the boards is not so much do to the issue at hand as it is to the fact that some people just wanted to see the guy "brought down". For what ever reason a lot of people feel the need to find negativity in someone who seems to have it all. These are the same kind of people that bombard this forum everytimea new blog is written looking for any little thing to demoralize Daniel. This is why so many people jumped the gun and automatically took Ram's side. I think it speaks volume's that no big game players have come out in support of Ram and in fact I don't think I've heard of any "name" gamblers that weren't directly involved saying that welching is the right thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 The only one that seemd to be publicly supporting Rams side is Barny Boatman. Now personally I know nothing about Marc Goodwin, but I am wondering if he has money like that. SO maybe Ram is on the hook for all or most of it banking that Mark (supposedly a close to scratch golfer) would have then playing ahead the whole time. I would be pretty upset to if I took a buddy to play hoops or something that was nails from the 3 and he went 1 for 13 and I lost a grip wagering with that knowledge.Maybe Ram is projecting becasue his "ace" didn't come through.Also, personally I could not imagine betting on a game where I hit in the 100's. That is where I golf at and I suck and play 3-4 times a year. One a great day I can crack 90, but it is usually around 105-110. This just shows how truly degenerate the guys are in gambling.(Speaking of degenerate gambling, a little of topic, my buddy's wife is pregnant and he called me up to set up a pool on when his baby will be born: He said "When thinking of who would know how to do this you were the first that popped into my head" A proud day for me when gambling on a childs birth and my name is the first that pops into somebody's head!) Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 The only one that seemd to be publicly supporting Rams side is Barny Boatman.Vicky Coren, Harry Demetriou, Joe Beevers, Ariston, Sam Torrance, John Juanda, will that do? Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Vicky Coren, Harry Demetriou, Joe Beevers, Ariston, Sam Torrance, John Juanda, will that do? Could you please post links to where both Harry and Juanda stated there agreement with Ram. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Not for the American poker player who believes all games are wagering games and the point is to amass any advantage any way possible.I have to say you are totally full of it.If I'm playing poker with you and Imake a huge overbet on the river. Then, while, you are considering calling, I pull out a loaded gun and say "I would fold if I were you". This must be permissable, after all, I'm just trying to amass any advantage any way possible (those are your words). And pulling out a gun puts a little bit of extra pressure on my opponent, doesn't it.It would be a huge overgeneralization to say that American poker players seek every edge.In this case, when wagering on golf between friends, I would think it is obvious that setting a "fair" handicap is a rule of the game. Sometimes, unintentionally, a handicap is set that is not fair to one side or another. That happens.But it is a different story if one side misleads the other side with the express purpose of setting up an unfair handicap. If that is what happened here (and I think that the overwhelming evidence suggests that it has), then the rules of the wager were broken from the outset. I've searched far and wide and only find opinions not evidence could you please link to the bolded part so others may see. Link to post Share on other sites
Volume26 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 fatshaft is one of the biggest fools i've ever come across. fact. Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 fatshaft is one of the biggest fools i've ever come across. fact.grow up. I believe in fair play and honesty, ergo I am a fool? Fair enough, rather that than a sad apologist. Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Could you please post links to where both Harry and Juanda stated there agreement with Ram. Thanks.Harry is on THM, JJ is on the YouTube video Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Harry is on THM, JJ is on the YouTube video I haven't read all of the thread on THM but will look for it. And I wouldn't take what JJ said on the youtube clip as condoning Ram refusing to pay....I think you're stretching that a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
fatshaft 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I haven't read all of the thread on THM but will look for it. And I wouldn't take what JJ said on the youtube clip as condoning Ram refusing to pay....I think you're stretching that a bit.TBF, I'm not saying it does, but it clearly shows JJ showing his distaste for Ivey's actions, and indeed Ivey looking uncomfortable at the line of the discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Hey Ram, be a man and pay him his fuckin money. Link to post Share on other sites
Volume26 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 TBF, I'm not saying it does, but it clearly shows JJ showing his distaste for Ivey's actions, and indeed Ivey looking uncomfortable at the line of the discussion.Yes CLEARLY Mr Sigmund Freud I just read Harry's posts as well and I don't really see him taking anybody's side. Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 TBF, I'm not saying it does, but it clearly shows JJ showing his distaste for Ivey's actions, and indeed Ivey looking uncomfortable at the line of the discussion. It could also show JJ disdain for what he had for lunch. Its a small clip and could very easily have shown them before JJ even heard Ivey's side of the story. I think its funny that so many people are jumping to this conclusion that everything Ram has said is fact. If anyone believes that Ram took this bet without thinking from minute one that he negotiated an edge in his favour they are likely fooling themselves. The arguement that they are friends etc doesn't really fly and I would wonder what the point would be of even playing for money if you thought you had negotiated a deal that was completely 50/50. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 this is ridicuously painful to read.this kind of crap should be handled by the parties involved, and the mediators.a bunch of people posting their opinions on the internet is as relevent as me pissing on the wall instead of in the toilet.do you really think YOUR opinion matters in this circumstance. all this arguing could be better used, i'm sure.good luck continuning your pointless arguing. What's going to happen is going to happen based on the people involved, not your silly opinons..much of which I doubt can really understand this gambling lifestyle, as blair rodman stated. dramabomb- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 He beat him straight up .....pay him.....pay that man his money! Link to post Share on other sites
SuitedAces21 2,722 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 this is ridicuously painful to read.this kind of crap should be handled by the parties involved, and the mediators.a bunch of people posting their opinions on the internet is as relevent as me pissing on the wall instead of in the toilet.do you really think YOUR opinion matters in this circumstance. all this arguing could be better used, i'm sure.good luck continuning your pointless arguing. What's going to happen is going to happen based on the people involved, not your silly opinons..much of which I doubt can really understand this gambling lifestyle, as blair rodman stated. dramabomb- JordanGlad you stopped by. Link to post Share on other sites
Muck, You Suckers! 0 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Maybe the poker world needs a new term (like we don't have enough).THE ENGLISH BETApplied to wagers which will be collected on if won, but not paid out if lost.Once I asked a guy, when facing a big bet, if he had the flush. He said yeah, he'd show me. So I folded my set, and he turned over a bluff. He lied, which I consider unethical, personally, even in the middle of a poker hand. BUT: he got the pot, and even if I'd had the option of not paying off, I would have paid off, AND it never occured to me to get mad at him, only myself.Ivey may be a scumbag (I feel this way about liars in poker games, though I don't think they're cheating), but RV had notice very early on, and kept playing, AND it's silly to think that RV is stiffing PI for any reason other than the amount of the loss.Somebody posted this on 2+2 LOL. I'll be using it. Not just for bets described, but anytime someone refuses to pay off they made an an "English Bet"I can see it now. Signs posted in Casinos and Poker Rooms across the country, "No English Wagers Allowed!" LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now