zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 I've read Pam Reynolds account of her NDE. She experienced the same thing that I experienced, which isn't life after death.Lol, except for the fact she reported accurately what was going on in the OR when she was clinically dead....all details she perceived and heard could later be verified. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Lol, except for the fact she reported accurately what was going on in the OR when she was clinically dead....all details she perceived and heard could later be verified. why do you keep saying the same thing over and over when everyone here, including other christians apparently, accepts that your views have been discredited?honestly, do you think you're that much smarter and that much more capable of objectively parsing the evidence than everyone else here? reality check. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Just from the last few posts, I can see that this thread isn't even worth catching up on. The only 'evidence' that exists in the afterlife is gained when you die. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 why do you keep saying the same thing over and over when everyone here, including other christians apparently, accepts that your views have been discredited?honestly, do you think you're that much smarter and that much more capable of objectively parsing the evidence than everyone else here? reality check.Mine and Lommel's views have not been discredited. I think Lommel is much smarter and much more capable of objectively parsing the evidence than everyone else here.Just from the last few posts, I can see that this thread isn't even worth catching up on. The only 'evidence' that exists in the afterlife is gained when you die.Having an open mind is a good thing. You should try it some time.Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Mine and Lommel's views have not been discredited. I think Lommel is much smarter and much more capable of objectively parsing the evidence than everyone else here.scientists are more capable at parsing the evidence, but they are NOT more capable than everyone here at determining what is and what isn't an objective opinion.and anyway, what makes you value the opinion of Lommel over other scientists? for example what makes you think he's more capable than francis crick, who was co-discoverer of DNA structure, won a nobel prize, and spent decades working on neuroscience including proving the physical nature of consciousness? how do you justify throwing the opinion of someone like crick out the window? Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 scientists are more capable at parsing the evidence, but they are NOT more capable than everyone here at determining what is and what isn't an objective opinion.and anyway, what makes you value the opinion of Lommel over other scientists ? for example what makes you think he's more capable than francis crick, who was co-discoverer of DNA structure, won a nobel prize, and spent decades working on neuroscience including proving the physical nature of consciousness? how do you justify throwing the opinion of someone like crick out the window?He knows the most regarding this subject. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Lol, except for the fact she reported accurately what was going on in the OR when she was clinically dead....all details she perceived and heard could later be verified. I could tell you details that I perceived and heard during my NDE that could also later be verified. Her experience was the same as the one that I had. It wasn't life after death. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 how do you justify throwing the opinion of someone like crick out the window?Because, in his own words, it scares him shitless. His fear has blinded his ability to think reasonably.What he calls proof is really just a scarp of debris that he can cling to what he sees as a violent and scary sea called reality. Unfortunatly, he has been programmed to believe reality is scary. He just can't imagine letting go that scrap and seeing that the sea is actually quite calm. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 He knows the most regarding this subject.in your believe-what-makes-you-feel-good fantasy world, sure he does. you know, though - there IS a real world full of accomplished respected scientists who think consciousness and memory are purely physical. closing your eyes and pretending those scientists don't exist doesn't make them go away for anyone but you.Because, in his own words, it scares him shitless. His fear has blinded his ability to think reasonably.i'm sure fear of no afterlife plays a part, but it's also an ego issue obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 I could tell you details that I perceived and heard during my NDE that could also later be verified. Her experience was the same as the one that I had. It wasn't life after death.The difference is that she was clinically dead when she heard and perceived things. Therefore, not the same. Have a nice day!Because, in his own words, it scares him shitless. His fear has blinded his ability to think reasonably.What he calls proof is really just a scarp of debris that he can cling to what he sees as a violent and scary sea called reality. Unfortunatly, he has been programmed to believe reality is scary. He just can't imagine letting go that scrap and seeing that the sea is actually quite calm.Not true. Also, I am not stupid enough to believe in non-existance.Lommel answered his skeptics in the article I recently posted. Obviously you haven't read it or can't understand it.in your believe-what-makes-you-feel-good fantasy world, sure he does. you know, though - there IS a real world full of accomplished respected scientists who think consciousness and memory are purely physical. closing your eyes and pretending those scientists don't exist doesn't make them go away for anyone but you.i'm sure fear of no afterlife plays a part, but it's also an ego issue obviously.You know, though - there IS a real word full of accomplished respected scientists who think based on the evidence that there is life after death. Closing your eyes and pretending those scientists don't exist doesn't make them go away for anyone but you. Try to be open minded. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 You know, though - there IS a real word full of accomplished respected scientists who think based on the evidence that there is life after death.i never claimed there aren't scientists who believe in a soul, although i think you'll find the vast majority that do are working in other fields besides neurobiology. for example lommel (van Lommel actually) is educated as a cardiologist lol.however my point was i'm not about to assume any one scientists knows best and ignore all the others who contradict him just because he happens to say what i want to hear. by your own admission that's exactly what you're doing. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 i never claimed there aren't scientists who believe in a soul, although i think you'll find the vast majority that do are working in other fields besides neurobiology. for example lommel (van Lommel actually) is educated as a cardiologist lol.however my point was i'm not about to assume any one scientists knows best and ignore all the others who contradict him just because he happens to say what i want to hear. by your own admission that's exactly what you're doing.That is not true. Lommel logically explains, in his article that I posted, how his skeptics are making faulty arguments and assumptions with respect to his ground-breaking study. Apparently you didn't read the article. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The difference is that she was clinically dead when she heard and perceived things. Therefore, not the same. Have a nice day! Her conscious state during NDE was the same as mine. The experience she underwent was the same as mine. I know more about this than Lommel (afaik he has never had an NDE) and, unless you have had one, you do not know the truth.People experiencing NDEs are not experiencing the afterlife. I have unshakeable proof of this. There is no substitute for direct personal experience. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 That is not true. Lommel logically explains, in his article that I posted, how his skeptics are making faulty arguments and assumptions with respect to his ground-breaking study. Apparently you didn't read the article.i've read everything you've linked or copied. so far none of it even qualifies as science, let alone scientific evidence. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 Her conscious state during NDE was the same as mine. The experience she underwent was the same as mine. I know more about this than Lommel (afaik he has never had an NDE) and, unless you have had one, you do not know the truth.People experiencing NDEs are not experiencing the afterlife. I have unshakeable proof of this. There is no substitute for direct personal experience.Lol, that is a lie. What is your unshakeable proof then tough guy? Lommel in his skeptic article I posted explaines why the skeptics lack information. Maybe you should read the article before declaring yourself smartest man alive. You don't understand. She had this experience when SHE WAS CLINICALLY DEAD. Your situation is different than hers.Again, I would love to hear about your "unshakeable" proof lol. Have a nice day!i've read everything you've linked or copied. so far none of it even qualifies as science, let alone scientific evidence.Lol, I guess you really are that dumb. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Lol, I guess you really are that dumb.and you are by far the best, smartest, and most objective person posting in this threadfor me to poop on. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Having an open mind is a good thing. You should try it some time.Have a nice day!wow. You're nuts, dude. Can you please explain to me what you are trying to gain from believing some lady had an out of body experience? Who cares if she was 'clinically dead'? I've known of several people that were 'clinically dead' that were revived. How does that prove anything about an afterlife? And most importantly.... who cares? Have a nice day!and you are by far the best, smartest, and most objective person posting in this threadfor me to poop on. sometimes I really like you Crow."What does this button do? Does it call your mother to come pick you up?" Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Lol, that is a lie. What is your unshakeable proof then tough guy? Lommel in his skeptic article I posted explaines why the skeptics lack information. Maybe you should read the article before declaring yourself smartest man alive. You don't understand. She had this experience when SHE WAS CLINICALLY DEAD. Your situation is different than hers.Again, I would love to hear about your "unshakeable" proof lol. Have a nice day!Lol, I guess you really are that dumb. Have a nice day!My unshakeable proof comes from the direct experience of something that you have only read about. I have had an NDE. You have not. How dare you call me dumb when your opinion is inconsequential?I am not a skeptic. I have direct proof from my experience and my proof is absolute. You and Lommel have nothing compared to me. Who lacks information when yours is all third and forth hand? My information is first hand. You have nothing when it comes to the experience an NDE. Nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 and you are by far the best, smartest, and most objective person posting in this thread.Thank you. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 My unshakeable proof comes from the direct experience of something that you have only read about. I have had an NDE. You have not. How dare you call me dumb when your opinion is inconsequential?I am not a skeptic. I have direct proof from my experience and my proof is absolute. You and Lommel have nothing compared to me. Who lacks information when yours is all third and forth hand? My information is first hand. You have nothing when it comes to the experience an NDE. Nothing. Lol. Lommel does not lack information. It is not my fault you are blinded by ignorance. Maybe you should read his articles like a good little boy. If you object to something he says, then try to prove him wrong. Your are so naive to think that your experience trumphs all other experiences. Maybe you should be more open minded. Only then can you become less dumb.How do you explain being clinically dead yet still able to hear and see? wow. You're nuts, dude. Can you please explain to me what you are trying to gain from believing some lady had an out of body experience? Who cares if she was 'clinically dead'? I've known of several people that were 'clinically dead' that were revived. How does that prove anything about an afterlife?It is evidence of life after death. Don't believe me, ask the leading researchers of NDEs. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 It is evidence of life after death. Don't believe me, ask the leading researchers of NDEs. Have a nice day!Did you even read my post? I never said I don't believe you. I said why does it matter? What are you gaining by knowing that someone in rare cases can be 'clinically dead', but not really dead. It proves nothing, except that you are trying to prove something that is COMPLETELY meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 It proves nothing, except that you are trying to prove something that is COMPLETELY meaningless.That statement shows how ignorant and close minded you really are. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Lol. Lommel does not lack information. It is not my fault you are blinded by ignorance. Maybe you should read his articles like a good little boy. If you object to something he says, then try to prove him wrong. Your are so naive to think that your experience trumphs all other experiences. Maybe you should be more open minded. Only then can you become less dumb.How do you explain being clinically dead yet still able to hear and see? It is evidence of life after death. Don't believe me, ask the leading researchers of NDEs. Have a nice day!I'm the one who HAS HAD THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAVE ONLY READ ABOUT yet I'm the one blinded by ignorance? That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I've ever had anyone say to me. How you presume that reading a few articles makes you know more about something that I have direct experience of is an act of staggering self importance and delusion.I would happily answer any question you have about NDEs, but you have not asked me anything. Why not? Because you have already made up your mind. Offered the oppportunity to ask questions of a survivor, you choose not to take it.I have seen, touched, tasted and smelt the reality. I know with absolute certainty that you are definitely wrong. Carry on being the arrogant prig, spit at the truth all you like, it won't stop you from being wrong. I have lived something for real where it is only a fantasy for you. Have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites
zzz 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'm the one who HAS HAD THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAVE ONLY READ ABOUT yet I'm the one blinded by ignorance? That has to be one of the most arrogant statements I've ever had anyone say to me. How you presume that reading a few articles makes you know more about something that I have direct experience of is an act of staggering self importance and delusion.I would happily answer any question you have about NDEs, but you have not asked me anything. Why not? Because you have already made up your mind. Offered the oppportunity to ask questions of a survivor, you choose not to take it.I have seen, touched, tasted and smelt the reality. I know with absolute certainty that you are definitely wrong. Carry on being the arrogant prig, spit at the truth all you like, it won't stop you from being wrong. I have lived something for real where it is only a fantasy for you. Have a nice day.Lol, Not true. I asked you how do you know your experience wasn't life after death--you replied, "because I know". I have questions for you, but you refuse to answer. Like, How do you explain being clinically dead yet still able to hear and see? Sorry, but your experience doesn't negate all the scientific evidence pointing to life after death. I'm sorry you are so easily offended. Remember: A really open minded person doesn't get offended or angry so easily. Have a nice day! Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Lol, Not true. I asked you how do you know your experience wasn't life after death--you replied, "because I know". I have questions for you, but you refuse to answer. Like, How do you explain being clinically dead yet still able to hear and see? Sorry, but your experience doesn't negate all the scientific evidence pointing to life after death. I'm sorry you are so easily offended. Remember: A really open minded person doesn't get offended or angry so easily. Have a nice day!You are still able to receive sensory experience during NDE. How? I don't know what the mechanism is, but I can tell you that sensory input does get through to you in an NDE state. In clinical death, the person is not breathing and has no heartbeat. Still, I know that some sensory information is getting through to their consciousness despite the fact that other body systems are shut downHow do I know it wasn't life after death? The state of NDE is entirely closed off within your consciousness. Because of how mine happened (not going through physiological trauma) I was able to experience the transition of my internal consciousness into and out of the NDE state. Because of this connection, this continuity of my state into and out of NDE, I know that everything in that state exists only within the conscious mind of the experiencer Link to post Share on other sites
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