disconnection ethics

[Abbaddabba 0]

Even if they did it to me. I'm not afraid of "Karma" or any other such absurd notion, however I am afraid of losing my self-respect as well as the respect of my fellow man and for my fellow man.

I can honestly say that, while i would appreciate you not stealing blinds, i wouldnt respect you for it, nor would i lose respect for someone who did.Im quite appreciative of people who have silly notions of' 'respect'. People who "respect" me enough to not value bet me on the river with the stone cold nuts? Hooray. People who are "respectful" enough to never bluff? Lovely. I mean, I'm not trying to convince you to blind steal in these situations. I hope that you do continue to have a convoluted, and arbitrary sense of what is right. It's always going to come at your expense, though.

I've read this entire "debate" which in my mind is nothing more than excuses and justifications for selfish, greedy and under-handed behavior.

That's poker, in a nut shell.The prospect of winning money at the expense of others, subject to the rules that of the game that you're faced with. I dont pretend to care about you as much as i care about myself. Within the rules of the game, i play to win. And stealing blinds is within the rules of the game.

For those of you who said that in a small tournament, you would sit-out, but in a big one such as this, you would take the money and run... that is even WORSE! You know it is wrong, but would do it if the money was big enough? Would you not rob a convenience store, but definitely would rob a bank?

There's no equivalency. Sh!tty analogies lend your argument zero credibility.

[Spademan 94]

I read Daniel's reply and am ashamed. For a person who puts himself out as a Christian and promotes the virtues of that religion, I'm surprised that he would approach the situation in such and under-handed way. Who cares if someone did it to him? What about the "Golden Rule"? He says that he would not do it to someone he is friends with, but would do it to a total stranger. That is total hypocracy!I'm not a Christian or a member of any other religion for that matter. However, I do have respect for my fellow man and would never do such a thing to anyone. Even if they did it to me. I'm not afraid of "Karma" or any other such absurd notion, however I am afraid of losing my self-respect as well as the respect of my fellow man and for my fellow man.If I cannot walk away from a big tournament a winner and proudly tell my friends that I won it fair and square, then I'd prefer to lose like a man and say that I went down fighting. I would prefer not to have such a hollow victory. I've read this entire "debate" which in my mind is nothing more than excuses and justifications for selfish, greedy and under-handed behavior. For those of you who said that in a small tournament, you would sit-out, but in a big one such as this, you would take the money and run... that is even WORSE! You know it is wrong, but would do it if the money was big enough? Would you not rob a convenience store, but definitely would rob a bank?Daniel... I agreed totally with your blog and arguments for why DreamClown should have continued to play you. Not so much out of the mathematical reasoning, but more for the decency and respect one should have for their fellow players. I'm not only talking about poker, but in life in general. I don't know how you can ask for respect and courtesy from all players when you, yourself have just admitted that you would only extend it to a few players. That is shameful! I still have enormous respect for you as a player, but have lost a little bit for you as a person.

It's funny when people use a lot of words and don't really say anything.Nobody cares if you're ashamed, or that you've lost respect.It's not illegal, and I'd laugh you off the table when you waited for me to reconnect and I beat you.Of course, I'd have back-ups if I were involved for 65k online, so it wouldn't happen to me.

[ForRealDD 0]

I'd break my fcking mouse stealing.

Then I would donate 1 of the extra 65k to charity to get rid of any guilt that I MAY, or may not have...

[Abbaddabba 0]

Yo, respeck.

[Dirtydutch 8]

I've done heads up blind stealing before. I did it at the end of a $100 step tourny, I think. I have no guilt. I would do it again.

[thrillsoft 0]

I wasn't writing to those of you who clearly have no respect for the game or ethics. I was writing to Daniel and those who purported to know what was the right thing to do but would do the wrong thing anyway in certain circumstances. The rest of you can go ahead and do what you think is right having not lost anything you didn't have before in the action. I'm not condemning you if you think it is right to do. I only condemn those that believe it is wrong and would do it anyway. That's hypocracy.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

I was disconnected last night with 3 to go and 8600 in chips out of 15k. I had to restart my computer, and by the time my 56k loaded back up, I was all in and I finished 2nd. If I were them, I would have tried to work in tandem to blind me off. Unspoken though. It would be wrong to discuss a strategy. Just figure it out.They were dumb and I finished 2nd. I shoulda won.

[Dirtydutch 8]

was writing to Daniel

No need to explain that.>30 posts = meant for DNIt’s a very common formula.

[thrillsoft 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

[thrillsoft 0]

Quote: was writing to Daniel No need to explain that. >30 posts = meant for DN It’s a very common formula.

I like how you took just those 4 words and not the whole sentence to try and dig at me. I assume that Daniel has moved on from this tread, but there were others that seemed to have the same view as well that I was writing to AND SAID THAT in the rest of the sentence. Have you read my posts? How many of them are for Daniel?

[UNCpoker 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

[loxo 0]

I'd break my fcking mouse stealing.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

I'm very ethical and always try to do the right thing in life, but even I wouldn't do that.

[cgrohman 0]

This has been asked before.I'll give the same answer.I'd break my fcking mouse stealing.If I were in a boxing match, I would never intentionally low blow.If I were in a no-holds barred cage fight, I'd kick someone's nuts into their throat.There isn't a rule against exploiting someone's bad connection in online poker, so, you steal.I'd expect the same to be done to me if I disconnected.

+1, except I wouldn;t go for the nuts, I would try to gouge their eye out with a pencil Ive hidden in my sweatband.

[thrillsoft 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

I'm very ethical and always try to do the right thing in life, but even I wouldn't do that.

Actually, hadn't thought it through. Responded very quickly assuming that the other person was raising it up and going gung-ho while the other was gone. In that case, I wouldn't be thinking of it as stealing someone's blind who was away. There would actually be someone there defending the blinds. If the other person wanted to wait, I would wait. If I thought to ask first, I would. But probably, it would not occur to me if there were someone else in game as well. I'd probably be too focused on acting and re-acting to the person still betting into me (or the other way around).

[UNCpoker 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

I'm very ethical and always try to do the right thing in life, but even I wouldn't do that.

Actually, hadn't thought it through. Responded very quickly assuming that the other person was raising it up and going gung-ho while the other was gone. In that case, I wouldn't be thinking of it as stealing someone's blind who was away. There would actually be someone there defending the blinds. If the other person wanted to wait, I would wait. If I thought to ask first, I would. But probably, it would not occur to me if there were someone else in game as well. I'd probably be too focused on acting and re-acting to the person still betting into me (or the other way around).

Ok, so it's the final table with 9 players still left. The same chip leader gets disconnected, do you ask all of the players to sit out?

[thrillsoft 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

I'm very ethical and always try to do the right thing in life, but even I wouldn't do that.

Actually, hadn't thought it through. Responded very quickly assuming that the other person was raising it up and going gung-ho while the other was gone. In that case, I wouldn't be thinking of it as stealing someone's blind who was away. There would actually be someone there defending the blinds. If the other person wanted to wait, I would wait. If I thought to ask first, I would. But probably, it would not occur to me if there were someone else in game as well. I'd probably be too focused on acting and re-acting to the person still betting into me (or the other way around).

Ok, so it's the final table with 9 players still left. The same chip leader gets disconnected, do you ask all of the players to sit out?

Clearly not. The OP was about a head's up situation. I already said that I probably wouldn't think about it in a 3 handed game. In a 9-handed game, the blinds wouldn't come around very fast so it wouldn't matter too much.

[commoncents 0]

i got busted with my hand in the cookie jar doing this last night at a $30 SNG.got heads up and he lost his connection, we were at 400/800.i started as fast as i canhand 1, auto folds SB to mehand 2, i raise steal BBhand 3, auto folds SB to mehand 4, i raise with 82 off and he goes all in. oopsi went on to get my QQ busted by 77 about 3 hands later and got 2nd. karma is a bitch

[UNCpoker 0]

Three-handed is different. I would not have teamed up to try and beat out someone who is disconnected, but I certainly could not have sat-out waiting for you to come back. I'd have just played as if you were not there and I was head's up with the other person.

So you wouldn't ask the other person if they would sit out until the player got back?

I'm very ethical and always try to do the right thing in life, but even I wouldn't do that.

Actually, hadn't thought it through. Responded very quickly assuming that the other person was raising it up and going gung-ho while the other was gone. In that case, I wouldn't be thinking of it as stealing someone's blind who was away. There would actually be someone there defending the blinds. If the other person wanted to wait, I would wait. If I thought to ask first, I would. But probably, it would not occur to me if there were someone else in game as well. I'd probably be too focused on acting and re-acting to the person still betting into me (or the other way around).

Ok, so it's the final table with 9 players still left. The same chip leader gets disconnected, do you ask all of the players to sit out?

Clearly not. The OP was about a head's up situation. I already said that I probably wouldn't think about it in a 3 handed game. In a 9-handed game, the blinds wouldn't come around very fast so it wouldn't matter too much.

But you chimed in about ethics, how is this any different from an ethical standpoint? It's only bad if you steal them fast?

[mikedshelton 0]

i got busted with my hand in the cookie jar doing this last night at a $30 SNG.got heads up and he lost his connection, we were at 400/800.i started as fast as i canhand 1, auto folds SB to mehand 2, i raise steal BBhand 3, auto folds SB to mehand 4, i raise with 82 off and he goes all in.  oopsi went on to get my QQ busted by 77 about 3 hands later and got 2nd.  karma is a censored

Not an uncommon practise to 'fake' disconnection and let a few blinds go to set up the BIG hand on BBLuv it

[mikedshelton 0]

i got busted with my hand in the cookie jar doing this last night at a $30 SNG.got heads up and he lost his connection, we were at 400/800.i started as fast as i canhand 1, auto folds SB to mehand 2, i raise steal BBhand 3, auto folds SB to mehand 4, i raise with 82 off and he goes all in.  oopsi went on to get my QQ busted by 77 about 3 hands later and got 2nd.  karma is a censored

Not an uncommon practise to 'fake' disconnection and let a few blinds go to set up the BIG hand on BBLuv it