folding kings pre-flop?

[lboarts 0]

Unfortunately you are getting advice from averae players. Its not unheard of to fold hear, especially with thr eblinds being so low. anyone with an A can beat you with one card, just like they would if you called or rasied with KJ and they called with A4o - laying down KK is not that hard if you think you are beat or if you know you can enhance your tournamanet position by doing so.  Put it this way - my friend laid down KK preflop to Kathy Leibert in Atlantis in the early rounds when whe was playing aggressively and the others pros + her thought it was a great laydown. You still only have paired Kings, any A kills you just like KQ against A2. You have to go with what you feel is right.  Think of it this way, would you lay down 3 of a kind to someone leading at you hard with 2 of your three on the board if you didn't have odds? Yes you would. There is a reason why KK is a second best starting hand.It really depends on the situation and the feeling you have a that moment.

You pompous ass! I avg $3000 per month playin SnGs. Add on my MTT winnings and you can almost double that. I'm not bragging, just stating a fact. I play tournaments to make a living, and I make a good one at that. I'm trying to help the OP, and you come on here calling everyone average players, and putting down our advice?

[PotDragon 0]

If you push and he's got AK' date=' AQ' date=' etc he's likely to call pf[/quote'']So ? Isn't that what you want ? How many outs does an A-Q have against a pair of Kings ? Especially if the original raiser has an ace in his hand.What is your point ?

My point is, as I've stated, the best way to survive this hand is to see the flop before you risk your entire stack.

It wasn't even your point I quoted.

i didnt write this...quote="Fnava621 "]If you push and he's got AK, AQ, etc he's likely to call pf

Yeah...my bad, too many drinks today. :oops: I don't play to survive. If you smooth call an all in while I have Kings...we have a side pot ...believe that ! Play it how you want.

[lboarts 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

[Socrates 0]

Unfortunately you are getting advice from averae players. Its not unheard of to fold hear, especially with thr eblinds being so low. anyone with an A can beat you with one card, just like they would if you called or rasied with KJ and they called with A4o - laying down KK is not that hard if you think you are beat or if you know you can enhance your tournamanet position by doing so. Put it this way - my friend laid down KK preflop to Kathy Leibert in Atlantis in the early rounds when whe was playing aggressively and the others pros + her thought it was a great laydown. You still only have paired Kings, any A kills you just like KQ against A2. You have to go with what you feel is right. Think of it this way, would you lay down 3 of a kind to someone leading at you hard with 2 of your three on the board if you didn't have odds? Yes you would. There is a reason why KK is a second best starting hand.It really depends on the situation and the feeling you have a that moment.

Of course Kathy would say great laydown. She'd love if people laid down KK to her all the time.And, "any A kills you"... wtf are you talking about.You do realize they need another one of the 3 possible left in the deck, right?

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right? And when you lose you accpet it right?

[UNCpoker 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

Thought so, I play on there under UNCfever, I just started back after a break.

[PotDragon 0]

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right?

You do realize we are talking about pocket kings here not KQ right ? When they call your Kings with A-2 how many outs then ?

[lboarts 0]

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right? And when you lose you accpet it right?The only time you move all in with KQ in a trny is if you're short stacked, and then you accept your fate. OP was above avg. Besides, he had KK, not KQ.

[lboarts 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

Thought so, I play on there under UNCfever, I just started back after a break.

Cool. I'll look for ya. I'm at the $100 SnGs quite a bit, and most of the guaranteed MTTs. They made most of them rebuys now.

[Spademan 94]

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right? And when you lose you accpet it right?The only time you move all in with KQ in a trny is if you're short stacked, and then you accept your fate. OP was above avg. Besides, he had KK, not KQ.

Duh.

[railmonkey 0]

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right? And when you lose you accpet it right?

Why is this relevant or helpful?

[lboarts 0]

You do realize when you move in with KQ and some calls you with A2 that there are only 3 A's in the deck right? And when you lose you accpet it right?The only time you move all in with KQ in a trny is if you're short stacked, and then you accept your fate. OP was above avg. Besides, he had KK, not KQ.

Duh.

Ya, spade, seems obvious, doesnt it? lol My statement was directed toward socrates. Pointing out the obvious is something this guy apparently needs, lol.

[Patman 0]

No way you can put the chip leader on Aces (he would have raised) and the shortstack could have anything. Horrible play here to fold.

[UNCpoker 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

Thought so, I play on there under UNCfever, I just started back after a break.

Cool. I'll look for ya. I'm at the $100 SnGs quite a bit, and most of the guaranteed MTTs. They made most of them rebuys now.

Yeah, noticed the rebuys, how long has that been going on? From what I remember, you are a very good player on there. Will have to check you out on there. If you are up for it and we play at the same table on there any, would be cool to help eachother with any leaks that you or I notice. I just moved and used most of my bankroll for the new house as a downpayment, so I am starting over a bit, until I the closing is finished and I can get some of that money back. I do get to play live a lot now though. :-)

[Spademan 94]

Ya, spade, seems obvious, doesnt it? lol My statement was directed toward socrates. Pointing out the obvious is something this guy apparently needs, lol.

I know, heh.I was just backing up your statement.

[lboarts 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

Thought so, I play on there under UNCfever, I just started back after a break.

Cool. I'll look for ya. I'm at the $100 SnGs quite a bit, and most of the guaranteed MTTs. They made most of them rebuys now.

Yeah, noticed the rebuys, how long has that been going on? From what I remember, you are a very good player on there. Will have to check you out on there. If you are up for it and we play at the same table on there any, would be cool to help eachother with any leaks that you or I notice. I just moved and used most of my bankroll for the new house as a downpayment, so I am starting over a bit, until I the closing is finished and I can get some of that money back. I do get to play live a lot now though. :-)

Thanks for the kind words. As I recall, you're very solid yourself.Congrats on the new house.I'd gladly accept (and offer) any help. I'm usually in this forum when I'm playing. Feel free to find me on here.

[UNCpoker 0]

lboarts, you play on AP?

Yes.

Thought so, I play on there under UNCfever, I just started back after a break.

Cool. I'll look for ya. I'm at the $100 SnGs quite a bit, and most of the guaranteed MTTs. They made most of them rebuys now.

Yeah, noticed the rebuys, how long has that been going on? From what I remember, you are a very good player on there. Will have to check you out on there. If you are up for it and we play at the same table on there any, would be cool to help eachother with any leaks that you or I notice. I just moved and used most of my bankroll for the new house as a downpayment, so I am starting over a bit, until I the closing is finished and I can get some of that money back. I do get to play live a lot now though. :-)

Thanks for the kind words. As I recall, you're very solid yourself.Congrats on the new house.I'd gladly accept (and offer) any help. I'm usually in this forum when I'm playing. Feel free to find me on here.

Will do! Are you playing poker for a living now? That is the direction I want to head in now, since I moved out west. Between online and getting to play live most everyday I hope to be there in a year or so. The sngs were a gold mine for me before, I could usually clear $300-$500 a week playing $20-$65 ones. Only played the $100 ones a few times, bankroll was not where it needed to be to play those a lot.Not sure when you started posting on FCP, but welcome!

[lboarts 0]

Will do! Are you playing poker for a living now? That is the direction I want to head in now, since I moved out west. Between online and getting to play live most everyday I hope to be there in a year or so. The sngs were a gold mine for me before, I could usually clear $300-$500 a week playing $20-$65 ones. Only played the $100 ones a few times, bankroll was not where it needed to be to play those a lot. Not sure when you started posting on FCP, but welcome!Ya, full time. Their still a gold mine, lol. I do go as low as $40 SnGs, when no $100s are filling up. I've been under a different s/n lately, but still play under lboarts as well.I'm new to this forum, but have been pretty active. And thanks for the welcome. I've seen GCP and UGAistheteam on here also.

[Fnava621 0]

if anybody cares i moved in original raiser had a6, big stack QQ, me KK. and i probably wouldnt have started the thread if i won so....

[ckbandit 0]

http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/v...9664&highlight=

[lboarts 0]

if anybody cares i moved in original raiser had a6, big stack QQ, me KK. and i probably wouldnt have started the thread if i won so....

We care, and if we didn't you wouldn't have had so many replies. I hope you received some useful advice.

[potpumper43 0]

MOVE IN. Maybe in live play you could get some kind of read but if you're not putting the money in in this kind of situation online 99.99% of the time you are making a mistake. If you lose so be it.

[bdams19 0]

How can anyone fold this?! He said the short stack had 450, and you have 1900. Does anyone see anything wrong with this?! Who cares if the short stack has the ace and an ace flop, if the chip leader has a lower pp we're dominating him, and if he has Ax he has 2 outs. Calling is weak, folding is weak, just put in your money.

[lboarts 0]

This is a smooth call situation if ever I've seen one, and I'm sticking by that. Any other move here is foolish, IMHO.OP, I hope this thread has helped you. The one thing everyone seems to agree with is that folding pf here is NOT an option.For those last couple posters that advocating pushing all in, please read this entire thread, especially OP's last post.

[jaaaaakke 0]

That's ridiculous. You're going to fold the second best starting hand in holdem because the chip leader has more chips than you??I think the correct play here absolutely is to move all in. You're putting tons of pressure on chip leader to call. He is not pot committed. He may have called because it was folded to him....by going all in, the pressure may have forced him to fold.So you're getting roughly 3to1 on your money....and most likelybehind ahead in the hand.Edit : I see a lot of posts debating on calling the allin by the cut off position.I think thats horrible play.. Again with the logic I said above, the chip leader may have called because it was folded to him.. I'm not sure the chip leader is willing to risk 35% of his stack early in the stage. ALL IN....I wonder what DN thinks about this. heh

[bdams19 0]

This is a smooth call situation if ever I've seen one, and I'm sticking by that.  Any other move here is foolish, IMHO.OP, I hope this thread has helped you.  The one thing everyone seems to agree with is that folding pf here is NOT an option.For those last couple posters that advocating pushing all in, please read this entire thread, especially OP's last post.

Read your own signature.