are online players getting better?

[Cadam11 0]

I have been playing low limit poker online for about 6 months now and consistently beating it. I make any where from 25-100 bucks for about 4 hours a day 4 tabling the .10/.25 tables. You get your bad beats every now and then but in the end it equals out.

[chindi 0]

You don't understand the math of poker if you are complaining about people chasing draws when they are 90% dogs to win.

Seriously... who the f*** was complaining? By that same token, you don't understand the math of poker if you don't see the negative side of having 3 - 5 callers to underdog hands every hand you play down. There are reasons why isolation is a good thing, and it's not possible to get on the low-limit tables...... but the only way to really have a session wrecked is if they're all hitting their draws... otherwise there's a lot of money there... which is what was said in the first place... and what you guys are all vehemently insulting in your agreement with.

[econ_tim 0]

My above comment was directed at this statement.

Any kind of limit game, O8/Stud/Stud8/Hold em, at the lower limits.. unbeatable. Forget it.

Just because you don't like what I said doesn't mean it's not true.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

.. they've actually gotten worse. Not worse in a "kickass, I'm gonna get my top pair paid off by a busted gutshot" kinda way.. worse in a, "this guy is not folding. EVER. and neither are the other 6 or 7 people here" way.I always hear how you want these calling stations in your game. I don't. I played a $50 heads-up match recently with a guy from Sweden. Great player, great game. I like playing against people who know when to fold.. or at least know HOW to fold.For me, the games are worse now than at any point before. These guys play with just reckless abandon. Doesn't matter if you're a 90% favorite, they'll call (they'll even raise sometimes!) and hit that miracle. KK vs 66, vs Q7s .. I make 3 kings, other guy has 3 6s.. we both lose to Q7. Why are you in a capped pot with Q7?Strangely, though.. the 2 cent/4 cent game is beatable :!:Any kind of limit game, O8/Stud/Stud8/Hold em, at the lower limits.. unbeatable. Forget it.

you are the live one at my table

[UglyJimStudly 0]

By that same token, you don't understand the math of poker if you don't see the negative side of having 3 - 5 callers to underdog hands every hand you play down.

I'm OK at the "math of poker", and all I see in that scenario is huge profits in the long run. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the "negative side" with a mathematical demonstration.

[Shark Hunter 0]

Online play is more difficult to win at because in real life cardrooms you can watch the old man with the seafoam green pants sit up and double check his hole cards 2-3 when the third flush cards hit, online you just got to guess if he doing it or not

[lboarts 0]

I'm not sure about the cash games, since I don't play them, but the tourney players online, IMO, are becoming better. Why? Not sure, but I suspect its because they have had time on the smaller buy ins before they move up to my current level. So by the time I face them, they've got some experience under thier belt. The biggest mistake I see alot of people making is moving up too quickly to the bigger buy ins. Then they tighten up like a drum and are forced to make a move without a premium hand, like "I'm low so I'm all in with the next A i get".Just a tip for all you trny players. Don't spend more than 10% of your bankroll on any 1 trny, whether its a sng or an mtt.

[chindi 0]

By that same token, you don't understand the math of poker if you don't see the negative side of having 3 - 5 callers to underdog hands every hand you play down.

I'm OK at the "math of poker", and all I see in that scenario is huge profits in the long run. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the "negative side" with a mathematical demonstration.

You're seriously saying you don't see the impact on the math (even playing ABC poker) of having lots of chasers in every pot?Okaybe. Let's assume, for benefit of this demonstration that for 100 hands, you always get A:heart: A , and 4 other people at your table always get 1 of 4 'chasable' hands: K:spade: Q:spade: - J:diamond: T - 9:club: 9:heart: - Q:heart: J:heart: Your aces, which are generally as much as a 80.2%:19.2% favorite against any of these hands individually, are now a 55.8%/44.2% favorite. The odds are slightly worse if you're A A Now... I might be new? But I'm pretty sure that's a negative mathematical impact of having additional people chasing the flop.-------You'll also note, that I NEVER said that it's not profitable in the long run, what I did say is that:1) If they're catching a lot it can wreck your session.and2) 'Schooling' can significantly cut your advantages even when playing ABC poker.

[Nutcracker 0]

By that same token, you don't understand the math of poker if you don't see the negative side of having 3 - 5 callers to underdog hands every hand you play down.

I'm OK at the "math of poker", and all I see in that scenario is huge profits in the long run. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the "negative side" with a mathematical demonstration.

You're seriously saying you don't see the impact on the math (even playing ABC poker) of having lots of chasers in every pot?Okaybe. Let's assume, for benefit of this demonstration that for 100 hands, you always get A:heart: A , and 4 other people at your table always get 1 of 4 'chasable' hands: K:spade: Q:spade: - J:diamond: T - 9:club: 9:heart: - Q:heart: J:heart: Your aces, which are generally as much as a 80.2%:19.2% favorite against any of these hands individually, are now a 55.8%/44.2% favorite. The odds are slightly worse if you're A A Now... I might be new? But I'm pretty sure that's a negative mathematical impact of having additional people chasing the flop.-------You'll also note, that I NEVER said that it's not profitable in the long run, what I did say is that:1) If they're catching a lot it can wreck your session.and2) 'Schooling' can significantly cut your advantages even when playing ABC poker.

Heads up with a 80/20 edge, you get $1.60 back for every $1 you put into the pot, so 60% profit. With 4 opponents putting money in, if you win 55% of the time, you are now making $2.75 for every $1 you put into the pot, so 175% profit.Does that make sense?

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

This is an intervention.If the any game at .5/1 seems unbeatable, it is because you don't know how to play it as well as you think you do.It's time for you to "reassess your chess" and admit that your game is missing something if you can't beat players who limp with any two suited cards and call down to the river.

I don't think anyone said they can't beat those players.I think it's been said multiple times that the variance can be frustrating when those people hit their hands, but that otherwise there is money to be had there.I do think we all appreciate you telling people that respect the possible negative variance of 'schooling' don't play as well as they think they do and have major holes in their game. If you don't understand the % impact over time of multiple players in with variant draws in multiple pots... then you're not the player you think you are either.

If you dont understand that the opposite is even more true, i.e When you are winning you get paid the maximum (much more than you could ever lose) than you are a weak tight player who is actually the fish. If I find a game where I can value bet middle pair at the river or even bottom pair how can I not run the game over. If I am running bad then I will get caught with TPTK, maybe 2pair or even a set, but with all these hands I have the advantage and will win the vast majority of my fair share.

[guinevar 0]

By that same token, you don't understand the math of poker if you don't see the negative side of having 3 - 5 callers to underdog hands every hand you play down.

I'm OK at the "math of poker", and all I see in that scenario is huge profits in the long run. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to identify the "negative side" with a mathematical demonstration.

You're seriously saying you don't see the impact on the math (even playing ABC poker) of having lots of chasers in every pot?Okaybe. Let's assume, for benefit of this demonstration that for 100 hands, you always get A:heart: A , and 4 other people at your table always get 1 of 4 'chasable' hands: K:spade: Q:spade: - J:diamond: T - 9:club: 9:heart: - Q:heart: J:heart: Your aces, which are generally as much as a 80.2%:19.2% favorite against any of these hands individually, are now a 55.8%/44.2% favorite. The odds are slightly worse if you're A A Now... I might be new? But I'm pretty sure that's a negative mathematical impact of having additional people chasing the flop.-------You'll also note, that I NEVER said that it's not profitable in the long run, what I did say is that:1) If they're catching a lot it can wreck your session.and2) 'Schooling' can significantly cut your advantages even when playing ABC poker.

I don't play for a single session, I play for the longrun.

Having one-thousandth of one percent the worst of it, if he plays long enough, that one-thousandth of one percent will bust the richest man in the world.

Boo hoo losing a single session. You'll go on a big downswing eventually (if you're a winning playing, if you're a losing player the downswing won't stop for a long period of time before you are broke). You don't seem to have anything worthwhile to say, Chindi.

[potpumper43 0]

Are online players getting better?Absolutely not. Worse if you ask me. Now everyone wants to be a poker player and new fish come to the pond everyday. Yesterday I was playing some .5/1 PL omaha. To make a long story short the villian raised the pot to me after I made a pot bet. Pot was pretty large and with four to the flush on the board I had KJ of clubs for a king high flush. I just called his bet putting him on the dreaded A high nut flush and the clown had only the A of clubs and thought he could just play that like Hold em. He did not have a flush in fact I think he had a pair of 7s.Comedy

Actually Krup raising on the end with the bare ace of a flush in PL Omaha is an accepted and normal play even for advanced players, any good PL Omaha book will describe it and recommend it in certain situations. You said you "put him on the Ace high flush so you called". You are using this exchange to illustrate how bad online players are???

[popeye18 0]

I think alot of the replies in this thread show just how bad online players can be.

[crashareee 0]

.. they've actually gotten worse. Not worse in a "kickass, I'm gonna get my top pair paid off by a busted gutshot" kinda way.. worse in a, "this guy is not folding. EVER. and neither are the other 6 or 7 people here" way.I always hear how you want these calling stations in your game. I don't. I played a $50 heads-up match recently with a guy from Sweden. Great player, great game. I like playing against people who know when to fold.. or at least know HOW to fold.For me, the games are worse now than at any point before. These guys play with just reckless abandon. Doesn't matter if you're a 90% favorite, they'll call (they'll even raise sometimes!) and hit that miracle. KK vs 66, vs Q7s .. I make 3 kings, other guy has 3 6s.. we both lose to Q7. Why are you in a capped pot with Q7?Strangely, though.. the 2 cent/4 cent game is beatable :!:Any kind of limit game, O8/Stud/Stud8/Hold em, at the lower limits.. unbeatable. Forget it.

you are the live one at my table

I'd love to play you heads up lucky(fish). Whats your pokerstars name? Lets do a 100 dollar heads up sit n go. pm me

[DefecatingDeer 0]

My statements were entirely about limit hold em, just to clarify. It's not a game I particularly like, and it's probably my weakest game, but these people are bulletproof. I'm exaggerating, but their thinking (or lack thereof) is just amazing to me. "It's only one more bet." "I know he has aces, but maybe I'll catch a third deuce on the turn." "Hey, a diamond on the flop. I got three of those now!"The game itself frustrates me. I wouldn't call myself a "live one," but I'm not a good LHE player and I can't neutralize these people like I can in a game like PLO or Stud8.

[krup24 0]

Isn't this a fairly standard spot for a bluff for him though? I heard Daniel make this play before. Granted, he may have said he thought it was like holdem, but I know many good players that would make the same play because there is a good chance that a good player will lay down a K flush there.And don't think I'm saying you're not a good player because you are I'm sure, and I'm sure you had a read on him. So, anyways, I just wanted to share my opinion because that is a great spot for a bluff.

I almost did lay it down. But seriously the dude was typing "wtf is going on" and "i got cheated" and "i had the nut". Coulda been good acting i guess. Never heard of the bluff mentioned before.Thanks for the insight

[Smasharoo 0]

I just called his bet putting him on the dreaded A high nut flush and the clown had only the A of clubs and thought he could just play that like Hold em.Was there another clown who was betting a K high flush like it was Holdem?

[krup24 0]

Actually Krup raising on the end with the bare ace of a flush in PL Omaha is an accepted and normal play even for advanced players, any good PL Omaha book will describe it and recommend it in certain situations. You said you "put him on the Ace high flush so you called". You are using this exchange to illustrate how bad online players are???

No dipshit. I called his river bet versus raising him the rest of his chips. I am not going to laydown the second nut flush in a sixty dollar pot that i was heavily invested in and made my hand. I am new to PL omaha and haven't read any books on it yet. I understand that the play may be acceptable.The moral of the story is that the villian wanted to email pokerstars cause he thought he was cheated somehow.

[krup24 0]

Was there another clown who was betting a K high flush like it was Holdem?

Nope just me. I'm new to PL omaha but I do tend to play it like hold em.

[devilsslide 0]

3/6 is unbeatable. With 3-5 players to every flop someone will always hit their draw and still manage to not lose money in the long run, even if the pot is not laying them proper odds. Well, at least it seems that way when playing Phil's top ten hands... sw Read SSHE

[Chrisj1616 0]

Stud 8 or better Not profitable with everyone chasing to the end?Are you on crack?

[poguemahone68 0]

Are online players getting better?Absolutely not. Worse if you ask me. Now everyone wants to be a poker player and new fish come to the pond everyday. Yesterday I was playing some .5/1 PL omaha. To make a long story short the villian raised the pot to me after I made a pot bet. Pot was pretty large and with four to the flush on the board I had KJ of clubs for a king high flush. I just called his bet putting him on the dreaded A high nut flush and the clown had only the A of clubs and thought he could just play that like Hold em. He did not have a flush in fact I think he had a pair of 7s.Comedy

I pulled that same move on someone yesterday, lol. Are you sure you didn't have only a set of 7s and not the KcJc? I had the AcAsKsQx and tried to move someone off of their hand on a 3 club flop. They did not lay down their set of 7s damnit. I figured it was worth a shot, but after firing a couple of bullets it did cost me a big pot.I was representing a flush, I didn't think I had a flush with one club, how do you know your villian wasn't doing the same thing?It was out of character for me at the table though, so I thought they were paying attention for the last hour and at least figured me for a 4 high flush, let alone the nut flush.One thing I have found lately playing online is that playing mediocre players has been far more profitable than playing monkeys that have no idea what they are doing. I'd rather try and manipulate a player every once in a while than just play my cards all the time.I'm not a conspiracy theorist by no means, but online card rooms use different RNGs and I have grown to detest Pstars and Party for theirs. I have moved to Full Tilt and find the RNG to be much better.Oh and I believe some online players are getting better, that's just inevitable. There are also just as many horrid players if not more flocking to online sites daily. This years WSOP broadcast should bring more fresh blood to the pool as well.