harry demetriou goes off on a dealer!!!!!

[HarryDemetriou 0]

I have to go and get ready for this final table but as I recall I was rather horrified to see the dealer pulling in my cards.In this state of shock I shouted at her "Don't touch my cards."to which she replied I pushed them towards her which was not true.As it happens ironically I removed the chip because I was going to move all in but her distraction made me go through the whole process of deciding to do the maths all over again and then I decided to fold.On a side note I actually defended this very same dealer earlier on when John Bonnetti called her the Devil reincarnated when giving him two consecutive bad beats causing him to go very short stacked and then out of the tournament but I also subsequently found out that she has mucked other players cards on previous ocaissions so this is not a first for her by any means.Maybe I should be grateful becasue I could have easily been busted by a bigger stack at my table as I was holding AQ off suit but felt I could wait for a better spot later on but then again maybe I would have doubled up but alas we will never know.And on a final point concerning dealers the overwhelming majority seem to be competant and good at their jobs and some are outstanding but then there are the few that give the rest a bad name and image and at the 3% they take for staff I expect all the dealers and floor staff to be of the highest calibre as we as players are paying top dollar for them and as such we are entitled to get the best.As for the player I explained why I called him a wanker previously (but I'll explain again below) and althhough normally I do not react to other players comments this is a very intense part of the tournament and I was in the middle of contemplating a reraise from Friedman at the time and he was doing it purely because he thought I had called a clock on him a few hands before.In my opinion this was pure childishness and had he not further commented after I explained to him (politely) that he was entitled to ask for a clock and that I didn't call one on him no more would have ocurred. However he continued so I insulted him.There comes a time where everyone has to stand up and just because I am more tolerant than others it does not mean that I will always take it lying down.Now I'm off to try and do a VERY difficult thing in going from 7/9 to 1/9 but maybe I'll end up 9th but I'm going to give it my best shot anyway.

[Meatwad 0]

Best of luck! Fold a piece of paper and make a little sign that says, "Do Not Touch" and use it as a card holder.

[elkang 0]

Bad dealers at the WSOP are like the bad refs at the SuperBowl. It sucks. Wish it could be more like basketball (which I say is very fair and well done)."Bad" players - that's just unsportsmanlike and that's life.

I hope you were kidding with that line...or trying to win an emmy for comedy.

I stand by my statement and if I had time I would back it up with articles by professional sports writers. I freely recognize that complaints are made about basketball refs, but strongly feel that the stats back up my claim that they do a great professional job.Football refs have no such respect from me.*EDITTED TO ADD - w/o making a new post*Baseball umps do a fine job - they are professionals and have a good system. I have some probelms with the pitching calls though - but it's a hard thing. I have no idea why this is being mentioned and want this tangent to die. This is a thread about bad dealers.

[faketree 0]

if the dealer really lied about what he/she thought happened, then i see a reason for getting upset. but, as the above poster said, the demand for dealers far exceeds the supply so its hard to fault a dealer that may have been thrown through dealer school in two weeks and is just getting started. its like getting pissed at a kid working at burger king for messing up your order. its just not worth it.i would have preferred a simple grabbing of the cards back and explaining to him/her that it is incorrect for them to do that. simple as that. i mean thats how you learn, by making mistakes.it seems too many people expect all dealers to be 20 year veteran professionals at the world series. they just don't seem to understand what a raw deal it probably is dealing at the wsop. dealing cash games is always more profitable and more consistent than tourneys.basically, there is no way that you will get top notch dealers at the wsop. especially not the first year it is this big and not the first year it is at a new venue.i understand the pressure situation he is in in being in a big tournament and i personally like harry very much from what he's posted in this forum in the past and the usual gentlemanly way he conducts himself at the table.however, in this instance, i think a little lightening up is in order. there are just too many factors this year to expect too much out of the dealers.

[alf13 0]

Bad dealers at the WSOP are like the bad refs at the SuperBowl. It sucks. Wish it could be more like basketball (which I say is very fair and well done)."Bad" players - that's just unsportsmanlike and that's life.

I hope you were kidding with that line...or trying to win an emmy for comedy.

I stand by my statement and if I had time I would back it up with articles by professional sports writers. I freely recognize that complaints are made about basketball refs, but strongly feel that the stats back up my claim that they do a great professional job.Football refs have no such respect from me.

Well..needless to say...I disagree...I think Baseball Umps do the best job.

[elkang 0]

Best of luck! Fold a piece of paper and make a little sign that says, "Do Not Touch" and use it as a card holder.

Harry, I hope you can add a bit of humor to this affair at some point. I know hamming it up for the table is a bit unprofessional in some circles - but we really appreciate it.But, I see now, that this is a TV final table too (if I am not wrong, to be broadcast Aug 30 at 9 PM NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM ($2,000) (6/11/2005)).Please do it Harry for us! Just have it up for a few hands if you feel the need to stir things up. If I was in town, I would have a beautiful embossed place card made (with a small FCP logo, heh!). I come from a scene where there is a bit of disdain for hamming it up. But, I recognize that inside jokes and humor adds so much to the experience and is good tv. And at least will make us happy. Poker despite being a serious deal, is a improvisational game that we play for enjoyment as well. This might help you in your goal to the bracelet and might be very good poker in itself. Regardless, we are very privileged to have you as a part of the forum and get the inside scoop from the horse's (Owl's?) mouth.

[cdddc75 0]

Bad dealers at the WSOP are like the bad refs at the SuperBowl. It sucks. Wish it could be more like basketball (which I say is very fair and well done)."Bad" players - that's just unsportsmanlike and that's life.

I hope you were kidding with that line...or trying to win an emmy for comedy.

I stand by my statement and if I had time I would back it up with articles by professional sports writers. I freely recognize that complaints are made about basketball refs, but strongly feel that the stats back up my claim that they do a great professional job.Football refs have no such respect from me.*EDITTED TO ADD - w/o making a new post*Baseball umps do a fine job - they are professionals and have a good system. I have some probelms with the pitching calls though - but it's a hard thing. I have no idea why this is being mentioned and want this tangent to die. This is a thread about bad dealers.

NBA officials are the worst in all of major professional sport. This is undisputed fact.

[TheIceman05 0]

... I think Harry is my new favorite person of all time.Ice

[avsfan 0]

... I think Harry is my new favorite person of all time.Ice

Double Word!!

[speedz99 145]

... I think Harry is my new favorite person of all time.Ice

Double Word!!

Hell yeah.

[EVILGENIUS 0]

it is up to a player to protect his cards and he was using a card protector to do so...When you remove your card protector it means you no longer want them protected. If you use one at all then its very clear what removing it means...explain to me how this is not the case.My take on this was he had decided to fold when he removed the chip but wanted to let the other player sweat it out for awhile still before he actually mucked the hand...the dealer made the right call reaching for the cards and then he leapt on the opportunity to make it seem like even more of a big decision to lay the cards down...all psychological.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I think the dealer should wait until a player throws the cards in, as an obvious muck. Just because I take off my chip protector doesn't mean I'm folding.As for the whole "calling the clock incident" I think it's horrible someone called the clock on Harry. I could see if someone is well known for taking a long time on every decision(like Toto Leonidas) but from what I've seen of Harry, he calculates the odds and does what thinking he needs to do but he does it in a timely manner. Reminds of a time I was watching the WPT in Aruba, and twice in like 5 hands a guy raised preflop with a very subpar hand and then got reraised all in and he seriously took 3-4 minutes to muck the hand. I can see trying to make it look like you have hand and not just mucking your cards right away but this guy was taking it too far.

[KingAustin 0]

it is up to a player to protect his cards and he was using a card protector to do so...When you remove your card protector it means you no longer want them protected.  If you use one at all then its very clear what removing it means...explain to me how this is not the case.My take on this was he had decided to fold when he removed the chip but wanted to let the other player sweat it out for awhile still before he actually mucked the hand...the dealer made the right call reaching for the cards and then he leapt on the opportunity to make it seem like even more of a big decision to lay the cards down...all psychological.

Um, did you read the thread at all? Maybe the post where Harry said he actually planned on going all in when he took his chip off his cards, but the dealer's mistake caused him to re-think his hand and he ended up folding.Tip #1 in a forum, read a thread before responding.

[Kendren 1]

Man, I hope he doesn't let this bother him. So far, so good, 7 left, he's still dangerous with 225k.

[jack24bauer24 0]

If the description of what happened is true, the dealer made a horrible error and deserved to be yelled at. No dealer should ever be reaching for someone's cards unless a blatantly obvious fold has been made by a player. Combine this with the fact that it was in the late stages of a major tournament, what player wouldn't go off on a dealer.Give Harry a break, you'd have done the same thing.

[EVILGENIUS 0]

i read the thread and just because someone says something doesn't make it so...heres a tip...everything someone says isn't necessarily true...When someone pulls a rookie mistake on TV they generally do not like to say "hey i made a mistake" but get angry and attempt to cover their mistake.If any of us were to be involved in a hand and left our cards unprotected and the dealer mucked them by accident even calling for a decision would not work in our favor...it is the player's responsibility to protect his hand. Harry was able to prevent a muck even after removing his card protector(the thing whose entire existence is for PROTECTING cards and avoiding this EXACT situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) So it wasn't a big deal...Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one and mine is that he was in the process of making his adversary sweat out his decision even though he was going to fold eventually. (I am aware that he said he was going to call an all in and then luckily reconsidered) Good poker players do not always tell the truth...This game is a large part psychological and it works for you if your opponents think you have good cards a large part of the time.(makes them think twice about pulling the same thing they are invoved in a hand with you again and they hold good but not great cards)I call things as I see them(and i may very well be wrong) and while its cool that Harry(very good player) graced us with his time. I don't get star struck...Good luck to him at the final table.

[UNCpoker 0]

it is up to a player to protect his cards and he was using a card protector to do so...When you remove your card protector it means you no longer want them protected.  If you use one at all then its very clear what removing it means...explain to me how this is not the case.My take on this was he had decided to fold when he removed the chip but wanted to let the other player sweat it out for awhile still before he actually mucked the hand...the dealer made the right call reaching for the cards and then he leapt on the opportunity to make it seem like even more of a big decision to lay the cards down...all psychological.

There could be a few reasons to remove chips from your cards other than to fold.1) To look at them again.2) To accurately count your chips.3) To see if there is any type of reaction from your opponent.I am sure there are a few others, but these are ones that come to mind.Now this does speak of a good reason to have something unique to protect your cards, and if you remove that item, then you need to keep your hands on them.But imo, a dealer should not reach towards your cards unless you CLEARLY have folded.

[TheIceman05 0]

What everyone is forgetting is this- Harry Demetriou is easily one of the most awesome human beings ever to walk the planet, primarily for the following two reasons:1) His frequent use of the word "whilst." 2) His propensity to shut his opponents down by calling them "wanker"Don't forget that he is allowed to do whatever the hell he pleases because he is so awesome. You think I'm kidding? I'm not.Ice

[EVILGENIUS 0]

1) To look at them again.  2) To accurately count your chips.  3) To see if there is any type of reaction from your opponent.  

anything is possible ...but...1.If he can't remember his cards he would have never gotten to this level possible he was doing it for #32.ummm...you mean he can't add one chip mentally to his stack?come on...you are insulting the man by suggesting this.3.trying for a reaction is the only reason i see for this situation happening at all besides what i was saying earlier.Like I said before he is a very good player and may very well have had his reasons for this but the fact that he did finally decide to fold greatly supports my arguement.And this is not to say he is being totally dishonest...I don't know about you but until my cards are mucked I am officially considering going all-in, calling, check raising,etc... but in the end there can be only one and in this case he folded(which is what he indicated by removing the chip in the first place) if he had gone all in or called then he would have a unbeatable arguement that the dealer was wrong.I like to watch world class players and he is most certainly one but even pros can screw up once in a while. Trust me I do not like to admit I'm wrong either...Do you?

[TheIceman05 0]

1) To look at them again.  2) To accurately count your chips.  3) To see if there is any type of reaction from your opponent.  

anything is possible ...but...1.If he can't remember his cards he would have never gotten to this level possible he was doing it for #32.ummm...you mean he can't add one chip mentally to his stack?come on...you are insulting the man by suggesting this.3.trying for a reaction is the only reason i see for this situation happening at all besides what i was saying earlier.Like I said before he is a very good player and may very well have had his reasons for this but the fact that he did finally decide to fold greatly supports my arguement.And this is not to say he is being totally dishonest...I don't know about you but until my cards are mucked I am officially considering going all-in, calling, check raising,etc... but in the end there can be only one and in this case he folded(which is what he indicated by removing the chip in the first place) if he had gone all in or called then he would have a unbeatable arguement that the dealer was wrong.I like to watch world class players and he is most certainly one but even pros can screw up once in a while. Trust me I do not like to admit I'm wrong either...Do you?

Man, you're WAY off base on this one EvilMoron. I don't know how much poker you've played, but if a dealer EVER EVER EVER EVER reaches for my cards when I haven't tossed them into the muck I give him/her a warning, and if it happens again I call the pit boss over. And that's pretty nice. Under no circumstances should the dealer make any move to take my cards unless I give them to her. Assuming that I mean to fold because I take my card-protector off is absolutely inexcusable. For the amount of money people pay to play in a tournament like this, she should know better. Card protectors are just insurance against a stupid-ass dealer making a stupid-ass mistake. Ice

[UNCpoker 0]

1) To look at them again.  2) To accurately count your chips.  3) To see if there is any type of reaction from your opponent.  

anything is possible ...but...1.If he can't remember his cards he would have never gotten to this level possible he was doing it for #32.ummm...you mean he can't add one chip mentally to his stack?come on...you are insulting the man by suggesting this.3.trying for a reaction is the only reason i see for this situation happening at all besides what i was saying earlier.Like I said before he is a very good player and may very well have had his reasons for this but the fact that he did finally decide to fold greatly supports my arguement.And this is not to say he is being totally dishonest...I don't know about you but until my cards are mucked I am officially considering going all-in, calling, check raising,etc... but in the end there can be only one and in this case he folded(which is what he indicated by removing the chip in the first place) if he had gone all in or called then he would have a unbeatable arguement that the dealer was wrong.I like to watch world class players and he is most certainly one but even pros can screw up once in a while. Trust me I do not like to admit I'm wrong either...Do you?

1) I have seen many a pro take a second look at their cards. While I agree for the most part you should remember what you have, but once in a blue moon you may forget the suit or something. 2) I am sure anybody can add that extra chip or two with no problem, but again I have seen many pros stack up all their chips to see what they have. People have different habits and ways to do things.3) This one does make the most sense, as I have done things like this just to see the OP reaction.Again to me the main thing from all of this is that a dealer should never touch your cards unless you have clearly folded. I have played in a few casinos around the US, and I have never had this, but have had dealer on several occasion ask me to push my cards in, even after I said fold.Now, the big question would be whether HD or the dealer is telling the truth about whether or not the cards were pushed towards the dealer. I would tend to think that the cards were not pushed towards the dealer, because if they were, then HD would have never said a thing.I know one damn thing though, I am getting a card protector to use from now on, not taking a chance.Engraved in it will be "Touch my Cards or Chips and Die".

[elkang 0]

What everyone is forgetting is this- Harry Demetriou is easily one of the most awesome human beings ever to walk the planet, primarily for the following two reasons:1) His frequent use of the word "whilst."  2) His propensity to shut his opponents down by calling them "wanker"Don't forget that he is allowed to do whatever the hell he pleases because he is so awesome.  You think I'm kidding?  I'm not.Ice

He should start his own fan site called www.NoContactPoker.com - the logo would be Can't touch this!I am being thoroughly entertained by this all lately. I'm listening to great live jazz music in between DJing and what not. Having wireless access and reading this stuff is just funny.

[EVILGENIUS 0]

Next time you play ask the pit boss to answer the question. "Who is responsible for protecting my hand?"Answer:You areThen ask "What would happen if your hand was accidentally mucked"(if there was no card protector on it.)Answer: They will not retrieve it for you(with a card protector on it you could argue that they should review the film and they would refund what you had invested in the pot up to that point if the film shows you are correct)They would of course apoligize but your cards would stay mucked.See what he says.Obviously I do not play at wsop levels and they may have different rules for ultra high limit players( wouldn't surprise me) but if you aren't paying attention and lose your hand because of it...Its your own fault

[UNCpoker 0]

What everyone is forgetting is this- Harry Demetriou is easily one of the most awesome human beings ever to walk the planet, primarily for the following two reasons:1) His frequent use of the word "whilst."  2) His propensity to shut his opponents down by calling them "wanker"Don't forget that he is allowed to do whatever the hell he pleases because he is so awesome.  You think I'm kidding?  I'm not.Ice

He should start his own fan site called www.NoContactPoker.com - the logo would be Can't touch this!I am being thoroughly entertained by this all lately. I'm listening to great live jazz music in between DJing and what not. Having wireless access and reading this stuff is just funny.

What you smoking? :wink:

[EVILGENIUS 0]

unc...My main point on this is the whole card protector issue. He had one and then removed it, which is how you signal that you are no longer protecting them.

I know one damn thing though, I am getting a card protector to use from now on, not taking a chance.

Its a good idea to always use one...cuts down on these pointless arguements. Just make sure not to remove it without protecting the cards...I am just expressing a opinion that runs against some of the blatant hero worship that i see on this site. All I'm saying is even experts may make a mistake every now and again.No one knows what hd was doing except hd and until I actually see his cards myself I never believe what a player says he had. and the main reason I'm still posting is I do not want to wax my car :wink: