Off Topic, Kinda.....

[digitalmonkey 929]

The well-being of someones family might be better served if they didn't work 80 hours a week.

[serge 904]

But do you believe the government should have those same ideals?

(this is directed at Serge's last post)

 

Its a tough question....I do believe it to a certain extent...

 

Just to give you an example....

 

Armenia was part of the Communist Russia for most of our history...When communism fell, the country changed..

 

When you go talk to some people, mostly in the lower class they will tell you that they were better off when the country was under communist regime.

 

Social democracy is needed , the question though is to what extent..

[serge 904]

The well-being of someones family might be better served if they didn't work 80 hours a week.

 

well that is a different argument all together...

 

Thats what makes capitalism so great...You want to work, go ahead...

[Dubey 1,035]

As a hardworking business man, did you find the Canadian system to restrict your ability in a meaningful way to provide for your family and provide you with a high quality of life?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

You do realize Serge that those numbers support the Canadian model since by all measures Canadians have been health outcomes than Americans do without spending nearly as much. The so called free market in health care in the US is actually a massively inefficient one compared to every other country in the World.

[serge 904]

You do realize Serge that those numbers support the Canadian model since by all measures Canadians have been health outcomes than Americans do without spending nearly as much. The so called free market in health care in the US is actually a massively inefficient one compared to every other country in the World.

 

I just put those number out there for Dave's comment that the US doesnt spend money on anything other than defence.

[serge 904]

As a hardworking business man, did you find the Canadian system to restrict your ability in a meaningful way to provide for your family and provide you with a high quality of life?

 

Not really...

 

I dont want to get into a Canada vs USA argument here...I love Canada...I think its an amazing country...

 

I also think the US is an amazing place to live..

[FCP Bob 1,312]

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

 

World Freedom Index

 

Canada at number 6 and the US at 12

[Dubey 1,035]

That's.. not at all what I said.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

If this sort of thing interests you at all this is the full report on the Human Freedom Index that is produced by a few different right wing Libertarian groups such as the Cato Institute and Fraser Institute

 

http://www.freetheworld.com/2015/freedomIndex/Human-Freedom-Index-2015.pdf

 

Top 10 Freest Countries

1. Hong Kong

2. Switzerland

3. Finland

4. Denmark

5. New Zealand

6. Canada

7. Australia

8. Ireland

9. United Kingdom

10. Sweden

[mrdannyg 274]

Maybe I'm just a naïve Canadian, but I really don't understand the backlash to Socialism.

 

This is a claim that I've done zero research to back up, but I would estimate that a large percentage of the countries that are widely considered to be the "best places in the world to live" with the highest overall quality of life, would be considered socialist to some degree.

 

Total socialism probably isn't ideal, and most Americans seem to think that their capitalist system is the main factor as to why they are the "best country in the world." Of course, as you and Bob cited (and Jeff Daniels memorably details in "Wag the Dog"), the US is only the "best" in their own imagination, but no one is going to convince Americans of that.

 

I cant quantify percentage, but maybe huge isnt the terminology. But its larger.

 

We also dont have to agree on your last statement, as it certainly doesnt apply to my personal situation and my family.

 

Can you tell us why you prefer the U.S. to Canada? Totally selfish reasons are perfectly acceptable (and you've already given some), I'm only looking for your perspective, not a bigger argument about who is "better", so I promise not to shit on you no matter what you say : 0

[iBeaver 409]

Bernie Sanders isn't going to bring in a Marxist style Socialism but more like the Democratic Socialism. Big difference.

[Untilted 158]

Not really...

 

I dont want to get into a Canada vs USA argument here...I love Canada...I think its an amazing country...

 

I also think the US is an amazing place to live..

I stayed out of this debate for now but I just want to say one thing because I agree with Serge's post above. We have some serious problems in this country. Trump is an ASS. NRA is abysmal even though I agree to the right to bear arms (which shouldn't include assault weapons IMO) to name a few examples. But I think there is a lot of US bashing going on here. some warranted, some not. Like Serge, I also find the US a wonderful place to live. Maybe not the best place based on some survey but I wouldn't move to any of the european countries mentioned as ideal paces to live. I wouldn't move to Canada either unless I found an amazing Canadien woman and had a equal to or greater job opportunity there. I love NY. I love the ability to go to MSG to see the Rangers. I love going to see the Mets and Yankees play. I love venturing into Manhattan for any reason and I love living in the suburbs knowing that the city is only a 35 minute train rude away. I have never felt personally threatened by guns and never seen a private person carrying a firearm. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal so tend to support candidates from both sides. i believe in Capitalism and I don't believe in Socialism. I like Bernie Sanders but I wouldn't support him. I despise Hillary, Trump and Cruz. I like Jeb and Kasich and could see myself supporting either one. Im on the fence with Rubio becausde of his social leanings. Based on what I have read in this thread, I just dont feel that the person I described above is respected and/or considered a good person by some here. That has upset me a little. Just a rant. I think there has been a lot of broad strokes going on here. A lot of people in the US are offended by what Trump stands for included me and many other Americans feel the same way. He has ZERO chance of winning the presidency. A good portion of the republicans I know would vote for Hillary before Trump and that includes me.

[iBeaver 409]

I have zero issue with anything you wrote but wanted to point out that for me I probably would love America more if I lived in one of its greatest cities (and one of the greatest cities on the world). You get to experience things I can't experience where I live.

 

I have no public transportation that actually serves a purpose. I have no viable city center. My area was just a few years ago a depressed area with business' being boarded up and crime rising. There was nothing sunny and fun about it. The only reason we are here is due to two important factors that are bigger than our issues, her parents (though I could easily move away from them) and his school. He's in one of the top schools in the country and its why we mainly stay. But I'd be much more happier and maybe a bit more pro America if I was in the DC area where we frequently discuss moving to. But I've also spent months at a time in UK/Denmark and could easily move there and be content.

 

I'm legit surprised you say you've seen no private citizen carrying. I don't know if I posted it here but a few weeks back I had a private citizen brandish his weapon at Jin & I. Called the cops. No clue what happened. Certainly not even close to the first time I've seen someone carrying.

 

I guess my long drawn out DannyG style post is that each individual has vastly different experiences depending on their area and will form different levels of patriotic love.

 

 

Side note as my wife texted me while I was writing this, his school emailed us to tell us a teacher received numerous text messages today threatening violence towards the school today. Luckily the schools police force and local police tracked the guy down and he was arrest before he ever made it onto school grounds. Yay? Ugh. Makes me nauseous.

[Dubey 1,035]

Thanks for sharing John. I'll have to go re read some of my posts recently but it was never my intention to "bash" the USA. I think it is a great country. I also think there are some terrible people there. There are terrible people in Canada too. There is underlying hate, xenophobia, and racism present in a fairly large subset of the American People and Trump is feeding off that and helping to work it into a bit of a fervor. The exact same thing can be said about Canadians. I see casual racism every day. If we had our own version of trump stirring up similar feelings, I'd be equally sickened by an equally large subset of Canadians I'm sure.

 

You'll never convince me that true American capitalism is better for society as a whole than "Social Democracy" or whatever you want to call the Canadian system. I think in the vast majority of cases, whether it be political leaning, or social ideology, or literally anything else you can imagine in the world, being on the extreme of one side is usually a bad thing. Communism is bad, it's too far in the other direction. Somewhere in the middle is always going to be better.

 

And again, when I say that Canadians are generally happier than Americans, I am speaking in a very broad scope. You, or Serge, being, in terms of quality of life and satisfaction with your current situation, probably in the top 5% (if not higher) of Americans, doesn't really accurately reflect American society as a whole.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I feel

I stayed out of this debate for now but I just want to say one thing because I agree with Serge's post above. We have some serious problems in this country. Trump is an ASS. NRA is abysmal even though I agree to the right to bear arms (which shouldn't include assault weapons IMO) to name a few examples. But I think there is a lot of US bashing going on here. some warranted, some not. Like Serge, I also find the US a wonderful place to live. Maybe not the best place based on some survey but I wouldn't move to any of the european countries mentioned as ideal paces to live. I wouldn't move to Canada either unless I found an amazing Canadien woman and had a equal to or greater job opportunity there. I love NY. I love the ability to go to MSG to see the Rangers. I love going to see the Mets and Yankees play. I love venturing into Manhattan for any reason and I love living in the suburbs knowing that the city is only a 35 minute train rude away. I have never felt personally threatened by guns and never seen a private person carrying a firearm. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal so tend to support candidates from both sides. i believe in Capitalism and I don't believe in Socialism. I like Bernie Sanders but I wouldn't support him. I despise Hillary, Trump and Cruz. I like Jeb and Kasich and could see myself supporting either one. Im on the fence with Rubio becausde of his social leanings. Based on what I have read in this thread, I just dont feel that the person I described above is respected and/or considered a good person by some here. That has upset me a little. Just a rant. I think there has been a lot of broad strokes going on here. A lot of people in the US are offended by what Trump stands for included me and many other Americans feel the same way. He has ZERO chance of winning the presidency. A good portion of the republicans I know would vote for Hillary before Trump and that includes me.

 

I feel for somebody like you because the direction the Republican Party has moved is so extreme that it limits your choices.

 

If I was American I would be an Eisenhower, Rockefeller first George Bush Republican but that Party no longer exists. The reality is that the US system of government from a structural standpoint is broken and I don't know how it's going to be fixed. We're lucky here in Canada since Parliamentary Democracies seem to work the best.

 

Oh, and you are a New Yorker first and living in one of the greatest cities in the World. The experiences you have there and the things available to you as a successful middle class person probably can't be matched anywhere else in the World although bits and pieces of it can be.

 

I'm sure you would much rather live in a city like Toronto or Sydney Australia than Philadelphia Mississippi.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

The problem is that people like Jeb or Romney or Kasich have to pander and support things that they know are just stupid and wrong and hide their true selves in order to have any chance at being nominated.

 

Jon Huntsman would have made a great President but somebody like him has no shot in today's political climate.

[Babying 613]

We (my family) love to visit the USA. "Knock on wood" we have never had an issue with weapons etc. Our favorite to visit is Detroit area (which we may do again on the Jan 9th weekend). When we do visit I think we do alot especially the wife. With the exchange, she will still prefer to shop down south than here.

 

One thing that does bother me is the slums/ghetto/wrong side of the tracks in the USA. It makes the slums in Toronto (Jane/Finch, Parkdale, Regent Park to some extent, etc) look like Bridle Path.

[serge 904]

 

 

Total socialism probably isn't ideal, and most Americans seem to think that their capitalist system is the main factor as to why they are the "best country in the world." Of course, as you and Bob cited (and Jeff Daniels memorably details in "Wag the Dog"), the US is only the "best" in their own imagination, but no one is going to convince Americans of that.

 

 

 

Can you tell us why you prefer the U.S. to Canada? Totally selfish reasons are perfectly acceptable (and you've already given some), I'm only looking for your perspective, not a bigger argument about who is "better", so I promise not to shit on you no matter what you say : 0

 

More personal and I'll explain later. However I believe that California is by far my favourite place in the world. Followed closely by Nevada.

 

Lot of those indexes are useless and mean nothing. I probably wouldn't live in 75 percent of the US and a huge percentage of Canada.

 

 

[gruven 530]

I was in Pitt over the weekend and ran into a bit of an issue getting late night coffee. Bunch of drunken ******* teenagers honking, and yelling in traffic then into the parking lot. Kid walks by and gives me a stare down. I snap and go to get out and am reminded that they could have guns. So I guess guns are awesome.

[Zach6668 513]

I stayed out of this debate for now but I just want to say one thing because I agree with Serge's post above. We have some serious problems in this country. Trump is an ASS. NRA is abysmal even though I agree to the right to bear arms (which shouldn't include assault weapons IMO) to name a few examples. But I think there is a lot of US bashing going on here. some warranted, some not. Like Serge, I also find the US a wonderful place to live. Maybe not the best place based on some survey but I wouldn't move to any of the european countries mentioned as ideal paces to live. I wouldn't move to Canada either unless I found an amazing Canadien woman and had a equal to or greater job opportunity there. I love NY. I love the ability to go to MSG to see the Rangers. I love going to see the Mets and Yankees play. I love venturing into Manhattan for any reason and I love living in the suburbs knowing that the city is only a 35 minute train rude away. I have never felt personally threatened by guns and never seen a private person carrying a firearm. I am fiscally conservative and socially liberal so tend to support candidates from both sides. i believe in Capitalism and I don't believe in Socialism. I like Bernie Sanders but I wouldn't support him. I despise Hillary, Trump and Cruz. I like Jeb and Kasich and could see myself supporting either one. Im on the fence with Rubio becausde of his social leanings. Based on what I have read in this thread, I just dont feel that the person I described above is respected and/or considered a good person by some here. That has upset me a little. Just a rant. I think there has been a lot of broad strokes going on here. A lot of people in the US are offended by what Trump stands for included me and many other Americans feel the same way. He has ZERO chance of winning the presidency. A good portion of the republicans I know would vote for Hillary before Trump and that includes me.

 

To be fair, NYC is probably the least "American" place in the US, in this context. I think.

[Untilted 158]

Yeah, I agree NYC is not the best example but neither is Detroit from the other extreme

[Untilted 158]

.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I was in Pitt over the weekend and ran into a bit of an issue getting late night coffee. Bunch of drunken ******* teenagers honking, and yelling in traffic then into the parking lot. Kid walks by and gives me a stare down. I snap and go to get out and am reminded that they could have guns. So I guess guns are awesome.

 

In fairness there are a lot of places in Toronto where you also would hesitate about a stare down from a kid factoring in that he might have a gun. Pretty big gang war going on here the last week in the West end.

 

Getting back to John's comment about not seeing people carrying guns where he lives it's because New York City has really tough concealed carry laws. It's almost as difficult to get a concealed carry permit in New York City as it is in Toronto.

[Untilted 158]

In fairness there are a lot of places in Toronto where you also would hesitate about a stare down from a kid factoring in that he might have a gun. Pretty big gang war going on here the last week in the West end.

 

Getting back to John's comment about not seeing people carrying guns where he lives it's because New York City has really tough concealed carry laws. It's almost as difficult to get a concealed carry permit in New York City as it is in Toronto.

This is true but I have been to many cities too many times to mention including Baltimore, Boston, Philadelphia, LA, Chicago and never felt threatened. I also used sound judgement to stay away from the troubled areas of those cities. I put together a scavenger hunt race in Baltimore a month after Freddy Gray's death and was welcomed with open arms. The racers were so thankful that I came to there city when so many others stayed away. The 2 times in my life that I felt uneasy where in Paris and Munich and both times it was because I was American. Sort of like Nationalistic racism