MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Steve, I found that story to be disturbing. I know people like that exist, in large numbers, and not just in the USA, but I guess I typically don't associate with people like that on a day to day basis, I don't even know how I would react to something like that. Here's how I reacted: For those following along at home, last Thursday night I came home to read Steve's delightful post about Jin being friendly with the kid in the class who could not talk. I posted that I loved that story, and it made me have faith in humanity after an awful night, and wont rant as I intended. (Dale asked, I chose not to) But after catching up on these posts about hate, here is my tale, shortened drastically because I dont have the time, and because I have to try to let it go. Readers Digest version: Last week after playing ball, walking out with the guys, and a couple of them start discussing Muslims, coming to Canada, bla bla bla. One guy is a Mr.Know it all, when in fact, he knows so very little, but he was taught at some point in his life that if he talks the most, talks loudly and with conviction, people will believe him even if he has no idea what he is referring to. 10 Minutes before politics, the discussion was Jagr, and this guy said "Jagr is the only thing Czechoslovakians know about hockey. When I asked him if he knew there were many other players, he said, no im pretty sure theres been like only 2/3 others in the NHL, and he proceeded to tell the group that Jagr now lives/plays in Europe. Im telling you, expert on everything. So back to the story, he starts talking about how this and how that, and then I mention that maybe he should double check his facts, that the French terrorists were actually not Syrian born. (source, FCP) Well, he then says "Ya, well, either way, Paris got what it had coming to them." This made me snap. I dont really even know why, other than I just started to picture the people who had died, and thought of my family. Frankly, this individual and I have a history too, since in the past I have heard him makes incredibly disparaging remarks about gays and minorities. Not locker room stuff, but full blown "the world would be a better place if we could just get rid of all of the _____ " At this point in my life, I'm tired of listening to people say stupid things around me, ignorant bullshit, without me saying a word. So now, the right person says it, and I call them out on it. Im too fcking old to listen to garbage or lies or things that make me upset, without letting someone know. I generally just stop spending my time with them, but this is one person Im forced to see because of mutual friends. I gave him a couple of chances to clarify, asked him if that means our kids now deserve to die because we have Muslims in Canada. He didn't back down. I told him I thought he was a horrible excuse for a human being. About 30 seconds later, friends had to hold him back as he wanted to fight. It got close, but not much more. It was a ridiculous scene, and Im not proud of it by any means, but again, way too old to just ignore these people. Long story short, almost got into a fight over something so silly, but Im just tired of this crap. now my rant is over Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I feel for you Arp There's no easy way to deal with a loud mouthed stupid person who is also a bully. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm glad you said something Arp, because most people wouldn't just to avoid the social awkwardness, including myself in most situations. I've been trying to make a point recently to call people out on off hand, casually racist remarks when I hear them, but it's hard. It seems to be becoming more prevalent recently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yeah, I agree NYC is not the best example but neither is Detroit from the other extreme Which is why I'd be probably more "go USA" if I lived somewhere else like DC. Or Seattle. Or a nice quiet town in North Carolina. It's all subjective and based where you live. But Americas alleged awesomeness isn't getting to me here. Some of Americas faults caused some of the issues here. I've visited most of America. I know there's some beautiful places. Maybe even some of those places are filled with kind & non judgmental folk. I hope to move to that place someday. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 One thing I think we can all agree on is that this is the most punchable face in North America 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 haha, he looks like he is about to be punched in the face but he has been asked to look like he's enjoying it. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Here's how I reacted: For those following along at home, last Thursday night I came home to read Steve's delightful post about Jin being friendly with the kid in the class who could not talk. I posted that I loved that story, and it made me have faith in humanity after an awful night, and wont rant as I intended. (Dale asked, I chose not to) But after catching up on these posts about hate, here is my tale, shortened drastically because I dont have the time, and because I have to try to let it go. Readers Digest version: Last week after playing ball, walking out with the guys, and a couple of them start discussing Muslims, coming to Canada, bla bla bla. One guy is a Mr.Know it all, when in fact, he knows so very little, but he was taught at some point in his life that if he talks the most, talks loudly and with conviction, people will believe him even if he has no idea what he is referring to. 10 Minutes before politics, the discussion was Jagr, and this guy said "Jagr is the only thing Czechoslovakians know about hockey. When I asked him if he knew there were many other players, he said, no im pretty sure theres been like only 2/3 others in the NHL, and he proceeded to tell the group that Jagr now lives/plays in Europe. Im telling you, expert on everything. So back to the story, he starts talking about how this and how that, and then I mention that maybe he should double check his facts, that the French terrorists were actually not Syrian born. (source, FCP) Well, he then says "Ya, well, either way, Paris got what it had coming to them." This made me snap. I dont really even know why, other than I just started to picture the people who had died, and thought of my family. Frankly, this individual and I have a history too, since in the past I have heard him makes incredibly disparaging remarks about gays and minorities. Not locker room stuff, but full blown "the world would be a better place if we could just get rid of all of the _____ " At this point in my life, I'm tired of listening to people say stupid things around me, ignorant bullshit, without me saying a word. So now, the right person says it, and I call them out on it. Im too fcking old to listen to garbage or lies or things that make me upset, without letting someone know. I generally just stop spending my time with them, but this is one person Im forced to see because of mutual friends. I gave him a couple of chances to clarify, asked him if that means our kids now deserve to die because we have Muslims in Canada. He didn't back down. I told him I thought he was a horrible excuse for a human being. About 30 seconds later, friends had to hold him back as he wanted to fight. It got close, but not much more. It was a ridiculous scene, and Im not proud of it by any means, but again, way too old to just ignore these people. Long story short, almost got into a fight over something so silly, but Im just tired of this crap. now my rant is over Nice rant! He sounds like a caveman. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 I feel for you Arp There's no easy way to deal with a loud mouthed stupid person who is also a bully. Honestly, I would welcome any suggestions on how to deal with this. Like I said, I usually just cut out people like this from my life these days, but this one would mean cutting other valuable friends out, and I dont want to do that. So Im stuck trying to figure out how Im going to stomach seeing this individual as often as once a week, and listen to him rant without flying off the handle. I felt like I had a pretty good control over my anger over the last decade or so, but this guy makes me want to consider enrolling in Daniels Choice Center so I can say "thank you for your openness and honesty, have a nice day" without breaking a sweat over words, cause I cant do it. lol Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 When he starts talking just start naming random Czechoslovakian hockey players to drown him out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Untilted 158 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Honestly, I would welcome any suggestions on how to deal with this. Like I said, I usually just cut out people like this from my life these days, but this one would mean cutting other valuable friends out, and I dont want to do that. So Im stuck trying to figure out how Im going to stomach seeing this individual as often as once a week, and listen to him rant without flying off the handle. I felt like I had a pretty good control over my anger over the last decade or so, but this guy makes me want to consider enrolling in Daniels Choice Center so I can say "thank you for your openness and honesty, have a nice day" without breaking a sweat over words, cause I cant do it. lol There is nothing you can say to change this guy. He is so full of hate. That's so hard to accept. Getting into a physical fight might be what he wants and no good can come out of it. Maybe I would stay away at saying anything personal even though he deserves it. But I would challenge him with every ignorant statement he makes 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 In this one case, I would go with a passive aggressive approach where he knows you are borderline humiliating him without outright getting in his face or calling him names. Like, if he says something about Paris, or Muslims. Laugh, and say, "come on man, you can't honestly believe that. I know you are smarter than that, because of <insert rational argument about the topic at hand>". just continue to be extremely dismissive of his opinions without being confrontational, ideally he gets tired of being embarrassed and stops saying stupid shit around you. I normally hate passive aggressive behaviour and tactics, but in a situation where he will get violent if you attack him directly, I think it is fitting, 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 We had a guy like that in our monthly poker game. It got so bad the game was just cancelled. That's how we dealt with it sadly. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 lol, you guys are awesome. I should have sat on the FCP Psych couch last week. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Thats pretty crazy stuff Arp..I have known you for a long time and I never known you as an aggressive guy..This guy must of really pissed you off, and looks like well deserved.. Its hard to say how I handle these situations, but I have evolved over the years... In your case that guy probably wouldnt have upset me as I try now to ignore idiots and tune out what they say, even nod and laugh at their stupidity because I hate to get into stupid confrontations with people that are clueless.. I m not saying you werent justified as I can see how its very annoying and I commend you for putting the guy in his place. Now I do get into heated situation sometimes when it comes to my kids, and I do lose my temper....I had a really bad incident that happened at Adrian's last baseball game in Pickering , I am not very proud of but it happened... Stuff like this happens to me a lot at the poker table, when people spew off bullshit about politics and religion and to a lesser extent how to play cards..Some wise guy will say, how the hell did you fold that flush draw on the river , you are too tight you dont know how to play...Meanwhile I know its the right fold based on my reads on opponents, pot odds and implied odds...The guy who is a regular loser in the game, will then needle me to say I am a bad player and I just laugh and agree.... Back in the day though I used to fight with those people and even say shit like " Well thanks to idiots like you , I am up $35753 this year playing this game"....I do remember one time actually saying that quote to a guy.. Not to go off on a tangent but another one of my favorite lines from back in the day, that pissed people off: A really bad poker player who constantly lossed in the game said "If it wasnt for these casinos and poker I could of bought a car"...I came back and said " If it wasnt for the rake I could of BOUGHT a nicer car" Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Seriously though, Arp; it depends on what you hope to achieve by your words or actions. You know there's nothing you can do or say to change his beliefs. Your best bet is probably to politely explain your issue and ask if he can try to refrain from discussing certain topics when you're around. It may not work, but it might be worth a shot. Link to post Share on other sites
Ottawa_Biatch 288 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Arp, I texted you a picture of my gfs moms fat cat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Arp, I texted you a picture of my gfs moms fat pussy. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Total socialism probably isn't ideal, and most Americans seem to think that their capitalist system is the main factor as to why they are the "best country in the world." Of course, as you and Bob cited (and Jeff Daniels memorably details in "Wag the Dog"), the US is only the "best" in their own imagination, but no one is going to convince Americans of that. Can you tell us why you prefer the U.S. to Canada? Totally selfish reasons are perfectly acceptable (and you've already given some), I'm only looking for your perspective, not a bigger argument about who is "better", so I promise not to shit on you no matter what you say : 0 I wasnt going to answer this as typically when I get into a candid opinion of my personal life, people will shred my opinions to pieces..I dont take hours to construct a post and I dont fact check with Wikipedia every sentence. Lot of what I say is my personal experience and my families experience. This is going to be a very long post , so pull up a chair and get some popcorn, but I urge you please try and dont ridicule my life and my beliefs and experiences.. I met my wife back in 1998 in a chatroom on AOL..It was an Armenian based chat room and we ended up hitting it off and the rest is history on that front.. I was 26 years old at the time with not much that tied me down and i decided to move to California to build a life out here...I have always been fascinated with the US and its history..I am a huge US history buff and always dreamed to live in the greatest country in the world... So I lived here in 1999 for about 9 months, things didnt work out with jobs and opportunity came up in Toronto, and we decided to settle there..We always had our eye back on the West coast and I knew we would eventually end up living here...One year turned into 5 then kids, then life happened and next thing you know we are still in Toronto for 15 years..Then our life got turned upside down back in April of 2014 when my dad's life changed over night..He went from seeing 50 patients a day in his office , to all of a sudden not being able to work due to illness...My wife and I were forced to jump in and help keep the office going, it hurt our businesses to the point that once we finally had to close the office and we looked at each other and said its time..I had been looking to get out of the mortgage business as i was burnt out anyways...It was becoming really dirty and cut throat in Toronto, where the business is now filled with low life scums, who will do anything to not only undercut you but will forge documents and basically scam their way to get business...When I was losing $millions of dollars in mortgages because I couldnt "produce" job letters and NOAs, and their friendly Persian or Russian mortgage broker would do it for a fee..It was time to get out IMO...It may sound racist but a lot of my competition was Persian or Russian, doesnt mean they are all dirty, but a lot of them were. The other thing was Toronto was becoming way too expensive for the lifestyle that we wanted to lead..Maybe Zach will tell us that we dont need a 2000 square foot house , with a nice yard in a nice neighbourhood..But we felt thats what we wanted...In Toronto and even in Pickering it wasnt going to happen on our budget and means...The houses that we would want were unattainable..Again I know you all will say well you could of bought this house here, but we wanted a change. Also my wife made the ultimate sacrifice in dropping everything and moving to a foreign country where she knew nobody but me, it was now my turn to return the favor. We wanted to move before the kids got to an age where they would be starting "real school", and at an age where they can build friends and a life easier. At first Nevada was where we thought , however after careful consideration Fresno California made a lot of sense...My wife has lived here for over 20 years growing up, her family is established with a solid business..We have lots of family within a 10 mile radius..We have a backing, a foundation..A huge Armenian community and an instant circle of friends.. California in my opinion(yes I am biased) is an amazing place to live..When we are comparing Canada to US, its almost like comparing apples and oranges...Would I leave Toronto under any circumstance to move to Alabama, Idaho, Wisconsin, New Mexico??Probably there would be no way, unless I was compensated with a really good paying job..Even then, money wouldnt be the number one thing. California is a very liberal and progressive state IMO..Lot of the stuff Canadians complain about the US, is not that prevalent here as much as other States ...Some of you may think I am a nut job right wing guy that supports Trump...I may come off like that, but in reality I am a moderate conservative I believe..I believe in a lot of Republican values but I dont consider myself to the extreme right like Trump, who gets lumped with racists... Just to interject one thing before I go on...Its pretty interesting to see stuff from the other side..Canadians believe that Americans are cocky, selfish and narrow minded when it comes to their country...Some of that is definitely true, however from this side I see the same narrow minded views from my Canadian friends with regards to the Americans. As much as Canadians are not dog sled riding people with Parkas in their Igloos in July, most Americans are not gun toting, tobacco chewing , truck driving , confederate flag waving rednecks either... What are some things I like better here than in Toronto? Some of them are trivial , some of them are on a macro scale.. This could be my perception, but I have seen it a lot...A university degree in the US, seems to me more important than one in Canada...Employers dont care as much in Canada( maybe its a big city thing)... If you are willing to go to College here, you will in most cases get a good job and support your family. -- The main difference you will see in US vs Canada is that everyone is patriotic...Everyone is American first , then Armenian, Mexican, Greek etc....Non secular holidays like Thanksgiving are celebrated almost by everyone.. As much we all our patriotic Canadians, it is nowhere near the magnitude as it is in the United States..It might not be something you agree with, but I like it...We all live in America and we have to be American first. --There are more options here , with respect to almost everything commercially...Simple things like at the grocery store in Toronto there might be 8 types of yogurts, here there will be 28... --Some things are much cheaper here...Gas, milk, things like chicken breasts, some vegetables....Again it might be a Toronto to Fresno thing, but its very noticeable. --My house, insurance, taxes ..Everything is cheaper -- I have much better internet, cell phone and cable service..Simple things like my on demand, DVR is much better than what I have been used to..Again not a huge thing, but its something I use a lot. --I dont have to worry about traffic here...Thats one thing that has improved my quality of life, I dont sit in traffic...Almost EVER. -- I can play live poker by driving 12 minutes to get to two separate cardrooms..These are strict poker rooms, that are run by normal rules and not the Nazi rules we have in Ontario..You want to surf your phone, while playing..Feel free..You want to play Clash of Clans on your IPAD, no problem...I would like one good reason to not look at my phone in Ontario casinos while I AM NOT IN A HAND...( yes I cant play on Pokerstars, thats a minus..But Bovada has a check for $1000 in transit) -- Again this next point you guys will bash but I think Adrian is getting a much better education here. The school is great, and much better technology than in Canada..Grades are updated online, we have instant access to teacher by email any time...He gets a healthy lunch provided every day by the State..Also we dont have to worry about the socialist government going on strike every 6 months like we did in Ontario...Also grades here are actual grades, if you dont pass, you will fail.. -- I also believe that our kids and us are able to live a more healthy lifestyle...Kids play outdoor sports 12 months of the year..Mateo played soccer up till mid November and he will be playing baseball( TBALL, SHOOT ME iTS BORING) starting in January...I tend to eat healthier here as there seem to be a few more options available towards the healthy lifestyle. -- Which bring us to weather...Its a huge thing for most people ..My friend Sevag's main reason for moving to Nevada was he couldnt handle the weather anymore..Its pretty cool that in December I can play golf and I am out in sandals today...( this year though Toronto is still mild so the difference isnt that prevalent).. --- We are in a location that is close to everywhere..We are 2 hours away from the ocean, we are 2 hours away from the mountains...Its possible to go swimming in the beach and go skiing the same weekend, if thats something you choose...We are close to Yosemite National Park which is one of the most beatiful places in the world..I am close enough to Vegas, Mexico where weekend trips are possible... I have a flight I can take to Vegas on some days for $38 one way...About to same as an Uber ride from Pickering to Downtown Toronto. I love Canada, and I love Toronto..I spent 35 of my years there...Its a great place to live for a lot of people..I will definetely miss a lot of the city..However lately it was becoming somewhere I didnt see myself living anymore. with the unsustainable housing market, traffic and other issues that were more personal...Its not like we escaped war torn Syria to escape to a better place..We chose as a family that for us this was the best option.... Is Fresno better than Toronto to live, for most people probably not..Is California a better place to raise a family than Canada..Maybe for some, but not for all..But for MY family and OUR situation , we felt it was the best for us. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Ottawa_Biatch 288 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Nice post serge. I want to move out of Ottawa now and move to Cali 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 He'll IM ready to move to Cali. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Nice post Serge, thanks for sharing. You did Internet dating before it was cool! I don't disagree with anything you said, and I would 100% live in the US (California Arizona or Nevada) if the opportunity presented itself someday, with the weather being the number 1 factor. With all due respect though, and I mean no insult when I say this, your personal situation is irrelevant with regards to the socialism vs. Capitalism debate. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Nice post Serge, thanks for sharing. You did Internet dating before it was cool! I don't disagree with anything you said, and I would 100% live in the US (California Arizona or Nevada) if the opportunity presented itself someday, with the weather being the number 1 factor. With all due respect though, and I mean no insult when I say this, your personal situation is irrelevant with regards to the socialism vs. Capitalism debate. You are right..and my move had almost nothing to with Politics or any of that stuff.. Another misconception I had , maybe others do as well...It is very difficult for a Canadian to pick up and move to the United States.. Sure you can get in, but you are an alien without a green card or a SSN... I am doing it the legitimate way by being married to a US citizen, and we have 15 years history..I dont know how others do it, or think they can..Its still not a " here you go" process..Lots of paperwork to be done.. You may know this from personal experience, do Canadian NHL players like your brother only have a work visa or are they actually allowed to get status in the US.. Once they are retired does that visa expire? Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 You are right..and my move had almost nothing to with Politics or any of that stuff.. Another misconception I had , maybe others do as well...It is very difficult for a Canadian to pick up and move to the United States.. Sure you can get in, but you are an alien without a green card or a SSN... I am doing it the legitimate way by being married to a US citizen, and we have 15 years history..I dont know how others do it, or think they can..Its still not a " here you go" process..Lots of paperwork to be done.. You may know this from personal experience, do Canadian NHL players like your brother only have a work visa or are they actually allowed to get status in the US.. Once they are retired does that visa expire? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_visa P Visa for athletes, artists and entertainers. Daniel was the first poker player to get one of these visas. He's posted publicly that he now has a Green Card and is a permanent US resident. I think there is a process for those with a P Visa after a certain period of time being able to get their Green Card Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_visa P Visa for athletes, artists and entertainers. Daniel was the first poker player to get one of these visas. He's posted publicly that he now has a Green Card and is a permanent US resident. I think there is a process for those with a P Visa after a certain period of time being able to get their Green Card Lol that a professional video game player got a visa. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Lol that a professional video game player got a visa. well this is an arena full of people watching people play video games Link to post Share on other sites
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