CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Feral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ? Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I would shove river and expect calls from a lot of Ax's thinking they chop. Link to post Share on other sites
BellaireDrew 2 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I would shove river and expect calls from a lot of Ax's thinking they chop.agreed Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 i may bitch out and call here tbh just so i can note this guy. i would hate to not have the note of WTF this guy is doing here. its so close imo. like a donk would probably bet bigger on the river so it is probably a bet fold. so a shove is probably fine. but hell it is a weird line from him. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Feral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ? I think raising the river is pretty awkward due to stack sizes. I think if we believed we were ahead, the turn was prob the place to bulk the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 flat and note works for me here. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If he folds to a shove, I think we have a good enough note. He is a fish and this is in rush. No way the note makes up for the loss of value. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 I guess my dilemma here is that so many Rush players are so nitty that it seems like it'd be hard for our shove to get called by worse. I know that contradicts the K3 hand I posted the other day, but I just don't see many villains attempting to call off here with just an ace. The fact that he overlimp/min-re-raised has got to raise some flags. It'd be incredibly strange for him to have any hand...but I think he should technically mostly have big premiums in the AA/AK/KK/JJ range. Obviously, we need to discount that somewhat because of our hand and because of his bet-sizing...but I still think hands like those are going to constitute most of his calling range if we shove the river. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Villain has AK, right? Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I guess my dilemma here is that so many Rush players are so nitty that it seems like it'd be hard for our shove to get called by worse. I know that contradicts the K3 hand I posted the other day, but I just don't see many villains attempting to call off here with just an ace. The fact that he overlimp/min-re-raised has got to raise some flags. It'd be incredibly strange for him to have any hand...but I think he should technically mostly have big premiums in the AA/AK/KK/JJ range. Obviously, we need to discount that somewhat because of our hand and because of his bet-sizing...but I still think hands like those are going to constitute most of his calling range if we shove the river.good rush players are nitty. Bad players are just bad. As for the boldedResults:Opponent thought for only a moment before calling with Krablar ().i know it is a different opponent but he is using the same sort of min bets and probably the same sort of thought process (or lack of thought process)If he had a polerized range then I would agree 100%. However this sort of clicking buttons l/rr min bet sort of player isn't. He could have any sort of Ax. Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Feral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ? Fold Pre, Raise turn more, im bumping it up to $14. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Fold Pre, Raise turn more, im bumping it up to $14.If he were shorter, we might be able to fold pre, but I just don't think we can fold here pre for $2.75 into $11 with $40 behind and having position.Anyway, I do agree with y'all that turn might need to be a smidge bigger. I somewhat wussed out on the river and just called. He had Ad9d, and I took the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If he were shorter, we might be able to fold pre, but I just don't think we can fold here pre for $2.75 into $11 with $40 behind and having position.Anyway, I do agree with y'all that turn might need to be a smidge bigger. I somewhat wussed out on the river and just called. He had Ad9d, and I took the pot.I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy.Your right Jbird. AJ puts us in some tough spots. Since tough spots are tough we shouldn't play it. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Your right Jbird. AJ puts us in some tough spots. Since tough spots are tough we shouldn't play it.But what if we play better than our opponents in tough spots?Is something like that even possible? Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy.You shouldn't fold hands because you have 'too much' in a cash game. If you find yourself doing that chances are your afraid to risk your profit without being 100% confident you have your opponent beat. Usually that's because the money means too much for you, so maybe you should drop down in limits or not play. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 But what if we play better than our opponents in tough spots?Is something like that even possible?Yes, but legally only Phil Hellmuth is allowed to do it.... Or Tom Dwan if you are playing on the interwebz. Link to post Share on other sites
Jbird 0 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You shouldn't fold hands because you have 'too much' in a cash game. If you find yourself doing that chances are your afraid to risk your profit without being 100% confident you have your opponent beat. Usually that's because the money means too much for you, so maybe you should drop down in limits or not play.Its not a fold b/c I am scared of losing the cash. The reasons for not calling were stated previously, the fact we are deep complicates things further. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Its not a fold b/c I am scared of losing the cash. The reasons for not calling were stated previously, the fact we are deep complicates things further.I can't think of another reason somebody would consider being deeper than normal a reason to fold. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 I can't think of another reason somebody would consider being deeper than normal a reason to fold.When you're deep and out of position, there are hands that you might fold that you'd 3-bet or call if you were shallower.That said, I just can't get behind folding this IP for that size bet pre. Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I can't think of another reason somebody would consider being deeper than normal a reason to fold.He's saying his hand has reverse implied odds, which is a legitimate concern. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But what if we play better than our opponents in tough spots?Is something like that even possible?If it is not on the chart, don't play it. Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp? Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Why is AQ below 88 but above 77? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Why is AQ below 88 but above 77?I'm willing to coach you, brah, just pm me Link to post Share on other sites
Danege 1 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Why is AQ below 88 but above 77?AQs makes better flushes than 77o, but not better than 88o. Link to post Share on other sites
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