Random Football Observations

[CaneBrain 95]

Joe Montana is still an ******* for saying that in public.

I think it was really unnecessary. But, I love when athletes say honest things instead of scripted soundbites so I won't complain.Fwiw, I agree with BigD about why players resent Tebow, but I still do not think it is fair. Tebow earned credibility by being one of the dominant college players ever and he doesn't ask to have an insane fan base or gobs of attention. He works hard and says all the right things. It's just a tough confluence of events, imo.And I still think on the right team, Tebow could be very useful. You could design an awesome short yardage/goal line package for him to dominate out of....much like how he was used with Chris Leak in college his frosh year. He could play 50-60 snaps a year and pick up 25 first downs and 10 TDs running/passing.

[CaneBrain 95]

to stop the Tebow obsession, sad story about Mark Brunell and his woeful financial path:http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/20111...-18-year-careerSad how many pro athletes are complete retards with money.

[SuperJon 175]

Sad how many pro athletes are complete retards with money.

Agree. Which is why I always hated when they complain about not getting enough. I mean I guess I kind of understand why they think they should be getting more, and in some ways, maybe they're right.I'd really prefer that they just got paid a flat fee, and any extra money they receive would be based on performance. Look at Chris Johnson. Caused all the ruckus about wanting to get paid more money. Finally gets a deal, and he's played like ass this season. Happens far too often.

[CaneBrain 95]

Look at Chris Johnson. Caused all the ruckus about wanting to get paid more money. Finally gets a deal, and he's played like ass this season. Happens far too often.

I don't know, I think he just might be slumping/facing 9 men in the box every snap.I think it is really unfair how many people are automatically making the connection btw his new contract and his play. In the day of 24 hour sports coverage, you get effing killed for underperforming your contract. I can't imagine he is not motivated anymore. Football players are the only athletes I think actually deserve more. The sport literally takes years off their lives. Everyone else is overpaid especially baseball players.

[brvheart 1,752]

It's totally ridiculous to view players as victims. They are all, obviously, VASTLY overpaid.Coal mining takes years off your life also.

[CaneBrain 95]

It's totally ridiculous to view players as victims. They are all, obviously, VASTLY overpaid.Coal mining takes years off your life also.

The free market says you are worth what the market determines, Brv!Coal miners are also underpaid, imo.I actually don't buy the VASTLY overpaid argument. Our society values rarity. There are thousands of doctors in Miami. There are only 53 pro football players in Miami (well allegedly pro players let's just not go here, ok?). Doctors may have more intrinsic value to society but salaries are generally decided by scarcity. What doctors make the most money? Those with unique specialties that most doctors can't do.

[brvheart 1,752]

The free market says you are worth what the market determines, Brv!Coal miners are also underpaid, imo.I actually don't buy the VASTLY overpaid argument. Our society values rarity. There are thousands of doctors in Miami. There are only 53 pro football players in Miami (well allegedly pro players let's just not go here, ok?). Doctors may have more intrinsic value to society but salaries are generally decided by scarcity. What doctors make the most money? Those with unique specialties that most doctors can't do.

I was only speaking in relative terms, since I thought you were. Of course they are being paid exactly what they should be. They are neither underpaid or overpaid, since they are receiving exactly what the market is paying. If we're talking economics, then your original comment makes no sense."deserve more" isn't exactly an economic term. It's more of an #OccupySouthBeach term.

[CaneBrain 95]

I was only speaking in relative terms, since I thought you were. Of course they are being paid exactly what they should be. They are neither underpaid or overpaid, since they are receiving exactly what the market is paying. If we're talking economics, then your original comment makes no sense."deserve more" isn't exactly an economic term. It's more of an #OccupySouthBeach term.

If I was homeless, I would occupy South Beach for sure.I guess I was just saying that of all the athletes if anyone perhaps is underpaid it is football players because of three things:1) risk of injury, shortening of life. more risk in a job usually means higher pay.2) they have the worst collective bargaining agreement in sports consistently3) they play the sport that is by far the most popular overall

[SuperJon 175]

I don't know, I think he just might be slumping/facing 9 men in the box every snap.

That may be, but I was also speaking in general. You see it happen so often in pro sports. Dude signs a major deal, and the following season either 1. doesn't perform well or 2. gets injured

[brvheart 1,752]

If I was homeless, I would occupy South Beach for sure.I guess I was just saying that of all the athletes if anyone perhaps is underpaid it is football players because of three things:1) risk of injury, shortening of life. more risk in a job usually means higher pay.2) they have the worst collective bargaining agreement in sports consistently3) they play the sport that is by far the most popular overall

Sure. Relative to all the other sports, football should pay the most based only on risk and athletic ability. I agree.However, relative to everyone else in the country, football players are incredibly overpaid for doing what they do. This is separate from economics when I say this, because obviously the NFL is a business and the players are worth exactly what they are making.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

It's totally ridiculous to view players as victims. They are all, obviously, VASTLY overpaid.

i disagree. you are worth what the market values you at, or we might as well just get into morally determining what professions deserve to be compensated the highest to attract the best people; i.e. teachers and doctors and nurses and police officers and LAWYERS.

[GOCUBSGO 77]

*disclaimer, this is all just my opinion (not a Tebow fan)I feel bad for Tebow. The guy is obviously a lousy QB at this point, but what did people expect. Almost every analyst/scout pointed out his numerous flaws for months leading up to the draft. Just as BigD pointed out with Newton beating out Clausen, it's not like getting a shot at the starting gig was particularly challenging in the Broncos organization (lol Orton/Quinn).The guy is a great role model, teammate, and works his ass off trying to improve. I bet his teammates have tons of respect for him even though he is struggling. I don't buy into this whole "they don't respect him because he has endorsements and isn't even a good player bit." That's just petty and childish. Nothing but jealousy. But how is any of it Tebow's fault? He is extremely marketable because he has a HUGE fan base and he is a public relations wet dream. I don't think I've ever heard him say something dumb or regrettable. Every interview I've seen an interview, he's either praising his teammates or taking full blame for his shortcomings. Basically just saying and doing the right things 100% of the time. It just sucks that a guy that has no business being an NFL QB, was placed in this kind of impossible situation. I get that for some people (probably a lot of NFL players), winning is the only measuring stick in terms respect, but regardless of how Tebow's NFL career turns out, I know he has my respect and the respect of a lot of other fans and players. I hope he proves everyone wrong (though I don't think it will happen). Just sad that anonymous players feel the need to bash a guy who has done nothing but embrace every challenge presented to him.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

The guy is a great role model, teammate, and works his ass off trying to improve. I bet his teammates have tons of respect for him even though he is struggling. I don't buy into this whole "they don't respect him because he has endorsements and isn't even a good player bit." That's just petty and childish. Nothing but jealousy

I don't know if you know any athletes, I haven't known any professional athletes, but I've known an number of big time amateur ones and maturity really wasn't their strong suit. I get the impression that the vast bulk of athlete's are just big children, and their emotional-intellectual development get stunted.

. But how is any of it Tebow's fault? He is extremely marketable because he has a HUGE fan base and he is a public relations wet dream.

Fault has nothing to do with it. It doesn't have to be Tebow's fault, it just is. Tebow has a huge fan base, but he's done NOTHING on the professional level to deserve or merit that fanbase. I can see why players would resent that, would resent that he's given things that he hasn't earned with his on field play. Respect is earned in the NFL through achievement, and Tebow hasn't earned or achieved anything. Every player in the NFL has overcome challenges put in front of them, everyone in the NFL has worked their asses off to get where they are. Why does Tebow deserve more praise for working hard and trying his best than any other player that works hard?

I don't think I've ever heard him say something dumb or regrettable. Every interview I've seen an interview, he's either praising his teammates or taking full blame for his shortcomings. Basically just saying and doing the right things 100% of the time.

You really think respect is earned from other NFL player by how well you speak to the media? That's how you earn fans, not respect from your peers. All that is wind. IT doesn't matter how nice he is, how well spoken he is, how christian he is, how good of team mate he is, how hard he works. He's can't play, and no player who can play is going to respect a guy, as a football player, who has a starting job he doesn't deserve.

Just sad that anonymous players feel the need to bash a guy who has done nothing but embrace every challenge presented to him.

yeah, but what they said is not so much a bash as 100% the truth.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

It's totally ridiculous to view players as victims. They are all, obviously, VASTLY overpaid.Coal mining takes years off your life also.

Since when did you become a communist?

[Dread Aidan 8]

to stop the Tebow obsession, sad story about Mark Brunell and his woeful financial path:http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/20111...-18-year-career

It's weird because he's white.What?I can't muster up any real feelings on how much athletes are paid. I'm ok with whatever they get.

[brvheart 1,752]

i disagree. you are worth what the market values you at, or we might as well just get into morally determining what professions deserve to be compensated the highest to attract the best people; i.e. teachers and doctors and nurses and police officers and LAWYERS.

Since when did you become a communist?

Everyone seems to have missed the post I was responding to. Economically speaking, I'm great with the athletes getting paid exactly what the market is paying.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Everyone seems to have missed the post I was responding to. Economically speaking, I'm great with the athletes getting paid exactly what the market is paying.

are you now, or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

[Dread Aidan 8]

are you now, or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

Brvheart is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star!

[brvheart 1,752]

are you now, or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

I took a picture of a communist recently.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

http://deadspin.com/5855575/how-contempt-f...nter-revolution

[GOCUBSGO 77]

I don't know if you know any athletes, I haven't known any professional athletes, but I've known an number of big time amateur ones and maturity really wasn't their strong suit. I get the impression that the vast bulk of athlete's are just big children, and their emotional-intellectual development get stunted.agreed Fault has nothing to do with it. It doesn't have to be Tebow's fault, it just is. Tebow has a huge fan base, but he's done NOTHING on the professional level to deserve or merit that fanbase. I can see why players would resent that, would resent that he's given things that he hasn't earned with his on field play. Respect is earned in the NFL through achievement, and Tebow hasn't earned or achieved anything. Every player in the NFL has overcome challenges put in front of them, everyone in the NFL has worked their asses off to get where they are. Why does Tebow deserve more praise for working hard and trying his best than any other player that works hard?I'm not arguing with you on any of this really, just trying to emphasize how sad and unfair all of this is. Tebow hasn't had to do anything professionally to deserve that fan base, he did plenty while he was in college to gain those fans, and they simply are following his NFL career now. I can see why some players might resent all the media attention, endorsements, and constant air time, but to say he hasn't earned anything isn't fair imo. Just because he hasn't had any measurable success in the NFL to date doesn't mean he didn't earn his share of endorsements through hard work and commitment during college. Brady Quinn has had endorsements also, and I assure you it wasn't because of his NFL achievements. I'm sure there are plenty of other athletes who have done nothing in pro sports, but still are marketable. I think people fail to realize that someone's value in terms of marketing can be just as much about popularity as it can be about on field performances. Energy drinks aren't sponsoring Tebow because he is the best NFL player, they are sponsoring him because fans like him as a person and a player.Look at Tiger Woods and Gatorade. Before the scandal, Tiger Woods was arguably the greatest golfer ever, might still be, time will tell, but Gatorade dropped the most dominant player in golf in a heartbeat because.....suddenly his marketability changed with people disapproving of his actions. Like I said before, I get the resentment and pretty much agree with the analysis, but there are lots of flaws with the way some NFL players are viewing Tebow.You really think respect is earned from other NFL player by how well you speak to the media? That's how you earn fans, not respect from your peers. All that is wind. IT doesn't matter how nice he is, how well spoken he is, how christian he is, how good of team mate he is, how hard he works. He's can't play, and no player who can play is going to respect a guy, as a football player, who has a starting job he doesn't deserve.Why does he not deserve that starting job? Does Brady Quinn or Orton deserve it more? Does the practice squad QB deserve it? Did he not put in the time and work just like everyone else? It's not like they announced he was the starting QB the second he was drafted. He has no control over any of that. His poor on field performance isn't even the real reason people are attacking him. People see the fan base, hear all the Tebow talk everywhere they go, and see his God first routine, and think to themselves, "this guy can't be for real." I can handle people calling Tebow out for his on field play, even though I don't understand how people didn't see this coming. It's part of the job, but when people start ripping him as a person or making fun of his religion, that crosses the line. There were numerous times where Lions players celebrated with praying poses intended to mock Tebow. You mean to tell me that because he isn't a good NFL QB, opponents have such little respect for him that they are attacking him as person? Tebow says he thinks it was all in fun and not meant to be offensive, but I can't believe he appreciated their actions, despite what he says. He would never admit that anyways. yeah, but what they said is not so much a bash as 100% the truth.I agree and on field performances are fair game, part of the job. Just can't understand this notion that he got handed something he didn't deserve. He put in the time and effort just like everyone else. The opportunity presented itself. If they wanna be jealous or hate because the guy loves Jesus or has endorsements that they couldn't get then they really are nothing but big children.sorry about the rambling. just typing my thoughts as they come

[GOCUBSGO 77]

http://deadspin.com/5855575/how-contempt-f...nter-revolution

I appreciated the end of that article, because that's another valid argument against all the Tebow hate. Even his on field performances are not all his fault. And nobody should understand that like the Lions.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Why does he not deserve that starting job? Does Brady Quinn or Orton deserve it more?

Yes, Orton deserves it more. I don't know about Quinn, but as bad as Orton can be at times, he's much better than Tebow.

I can handle people calling Tebow out for his on field play, even though I don't understand how people didn't see this coming. It's part of the job, but when people start ripping him as a person or making fun of his religion, that crosses the line. There were numerous times where Lions players celebrated with praying poses intended to mock Tebow. You mean to tell me that because he isn't a good NFL QB, opponents have such little respect for him that they are attacking him as person?

No one is attacking Tebow as a person,t but yes, his play on the field is why they are mocking him, because he is comically bad. All of the Lion quotes were about how bad of a QB he is. And yes, they were clowning him with Tebowing, but you realize that they didn't invent that, right? That "Tebowing" has become a huge internet Meme, and a couple players thought it would be funny to Tebow Tebow after they sacked him. It's inmature, yes, but it's not some personal attack or something. It's just childish clowning. Players clown each other all the time. Mock each other. The shit football players say to each other on the field, it crosses so many different lines, this is just an extension of that. It's not mature, it's not nice, but it's not some travesty or outside the normal range of behavior of a young athlete. Again, I don't think you're viewing this from the atheletes eyes. You're sort of projecting why some of the fans insult him. I don't know what you do as a job, but how much respect would you have if someone at your work got promoted to a high profile management position who was grossly incompetent at their job? They are the nicest guy in the world, but they are comically bad at the job they are asked to do. Would you and your co-workers have respect for a guy like that, or would you make jokes about how incompetent he was and clown him?

[SBriand 4]

Two players Tebowed during the game. Tulloch after his sack. It was not a personal attack to some guys religion. It is what football players do. If someone sacks Rodgers and then does his belt dance is that a personal attack or does it only fall under a personal attack only when "religion" might be involved? I think that is the issue here. Because religion is involved people need to make it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Football players mock and trash talk all game long but since Tebow has decided to bring his religious crap onto the field of play it means that he now deserves special treatment? Give me a break.The second time a Lions player Tebowed was when Scheffler scored a TD. If you watched any other Lions game you would know that when Tony scores a TD he will do a endzone dance that mimics what the opposing team does or if they don;t have a set dance he does something that represents the opposing team. He and Nate have been doing it all season. So Tebow was not singled out at all. He did the Tebow and then the mile high salute. In TB he was a swashbuckling pirate. In KC he was a Indian dancing around the fire. etc etc

[Dread Aidan 8]

http://deadspin.com/5855575/how-contempt-f...nter-revolution

Awesome.

If someone sacks Rodgers and then does his belt dance is that a personal attack or does it only fall under a personal attack only when "religion" might be involved?

That's the discount double check.