Cnn Vs Fox News

[hblask 1]

I guess what I'm not seeing is the punishment. It seems like it's mostly theoretical. Did a black dude steal your job? What's the punishment? I'm pretty sure most of your taxes aren't going to welfare.

I don't understand your point here. Am I not supposed to worry about injustice and bad policy just because it doesn't affect me personally? Or are you denying that many, many people are being punished for things they, their parents, their grandparents, or anyone in their family tree had anything to do with?

[hblask 1]

This has now ranged far from the original topic of this thread, but since that topic sucked, I don't mind :)I think another thing that should be pointed out is that there is another race that suffered severe systematic legal repression through the years, and still faces almost as much explicit and implict racism -- Asians. I have a friend whose ancestors owned hundreds of acres in Napa Valley around 1900, only to have it just taken by a racist government. No compensation, no anything, just a "leave now". That land would be worth tens of millions of dollars now.My friend, suffering from the effects of this, only owned two businesses and made a mere $180,000 per year.So no, the effects of previous discrimination don't last 40 years unless you let them.

[vbnautilus 48]

This has now ranged far from the original topic of this thread, but since that topic sucked, I don't mind :)I think another thing that should be pointed out is that there is another race that suffered severe systematic legal repression through the years, and still faces almost as much explicit and implict racism -- Asians. I have a friend whose ancestors owned hundreds of acres in Napa Valley around 1900, only to have it just taken by a racist government. No compensation, no anything, just a "leave now". That land would be worth tens of millions of dollars now.My friend, suffering from the effects of this, only owned two businesses and made a mere $180,000 per year.So no, the effects of previous discrimination don't last 40 years unless you let them.

Wow, that is a horrible analogy.And obviously the existence of a single successful person says nothing about the effects of racism on the group in general.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Wow, that is a horrible analogy.And obviously the existence of a single successful person says nothing about the effects of racism on the group in general.

Of course it says something about the group. Perhaps looking at why/how an individual was able to succeed rather than focusing all attention on the failures might lead to understandng, rewarding, and replicating success. I'm tired of people looking at success as an almost random occurrence but assuming failure is systematic.We do this in business all the time. My client has Customer Satisfaction Surveys. We spend most of our time concentrating our efforts analyzing interactions that result in poor satisfaction. Often giving special attention to the dissatisfied customer after the interaction. When I try and remind people that our strategy needs to include analysis of satisfied customers to keep them satisfied and replicate the success, I am often met with a blank stare.

[hblask 1]

Wow, that is a horrible analogy.And obviously the existence of a single successful person says nothing about the effects of racism on the group in general.

Huh? Are you saying Asians, in general, are unsuccessful? Or that they have not historically suffered discrimination? Because if you believe either of those, I think you are not really seeing the real world.

[vbnautilus 48]

Huh? Are you saying Asians, in general, are unsuccessful? Or that they have not historically suffered discrimination? Because if you believe either of those, I think you are not really seeing the real world.

I haven't been following this discussion very closely but I thought it was about the effects of racism on black people in america. Certainly asians have experienced discrimination, but the cultural context surrounding both groups is entirely different and incomparable. I don't think too many asians were brought here as slaves. And that context can certainly make it less likely that someone is successful while still allowing for the possibility that various individuals achieve success.

[vbnautilus 48]

Of course it says something about the group. Perhaps looking at why/how an individual was able to succeed rather than focusing all attention on the failures might lead to understandng, rewarding, and replicating success. I'm tired of people looking at success as an almost random occurrence but assuming failure is systematic.

It's not an assumption. It's what the data show. Median income for black people is significantly lower than for whites. There is a systematic difference. My point was that the existence of successful individuals (the tails of the distribution) does not show that there is no group effect, nor does it show that racism is not one of the factors in creating this group difference.Nor does the success of other races who have experienced discrimination show that racism is not a factor.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

I don't know any black people who were brought here as slaves, or their fathers or their fathers father .............So very tired of that lame old excuse. Time to get over it.I live in an very integrated middle class neighborhood, in fact I am a minority here. Of my black neighbors I know, they are all hard working, many well educated with very few fatherless homes. Guess what they are doing well and so are their kids, amazing.

[85suited 0]

How has voting democratic in every election helped the inner city?

[slink 1]

How has voting democratic in every election helped the inner city?

Wait, I know this...."What is, it hasn't"

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

It's not an assumption. It's what the data show. Median income for black people is significantly lower than for whites. There is a systematic difference. My point was that the existence of successful individuals (the tails of the distribution) does not show that there is no group effect, nor does it show that racism is not one of the factors in creating this group difference.Nor does the success of other races who have experienced discrimination show that racism is not a factor.

What?!? How do the "data show" a "systematic difference" or cause? A lower median doesn't indicate a systematic difference nor cause. Now you're just not even making any sense when you try and use a simple median to indicate systematic failure.My point was that by focusing on what went right the successes rather than what went wrong with the failures we can hope to replicate the success rather than explain the failure.

[hblask 1]

I haven't been following this discussion very closely but I thought it was about the effects of racism on black people in america. Certainly asians have experienced discrimination, but the cultural context surrounding both groups is entirely different and incomparable. I don't think too many asians were brought here as slaves. And that context can certainly make it less likely that someone is successful while still allowing for the possibility that various individuals achieve success.

The discussion was about whether we should have laws that favor blacks and other minorities to compensate for past discrimination of previous generations. My example was to show that the notion that this past discrimination is somehow a permanent barrier to success is silly. We have a black president. Asians have suffered some of the worst discrimination in this nation's history. How do we justify telling innocent people "sorry, we have to punish you by law because at some point in the distant past, someone with your skin color did something bad?"

[85suited 0]

Wait, I know this...."What is, it hasn't"

Why Martin Luther King Was Republican by Frances Rice http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16500

Democrats have been running our inner-cities for the past 30 to 40 years, and blacks are still complaining about the same problems. More than $7 trillion dollars have been spent on poverty programs since Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty with little, if any, impact on poverty. Diabolically, every election cycle, Democrats blame Republicans for the deplorable conditions in the inner-cities, then incite blacks to cast a protest vote against Republicans.

Ms. Rice is chairman of the National Black Republican Association (NBRA)

[vbnautilus 48]

How do the "data show" a "systematic difference" or cause? A lower median doesn't indicate a systematic difference nor cause.

huh???I think maybe you and I disagree on what constitutes a systematic difference? Although I can't really imagine what you would mean by it except that the groups are systematically different?? I didn't say these data show cause. How else would you show a systematic difference other than showing non-identical distributions of income?edit: maybe you are taking "systematic" to mean "because of the system" whereas I just mean that it is taxonomic, i.e. differing in general by group

[vbnautilus 48]

My example was to show that the notion that this past discrimination is somehow a permanent barrier to success is silly.

That is a straw man. Virtually no one thinks it is a "permanent barrier" to success. However, it can certainly make success less likely for a given group. That's what anecdotes about particular individuals do not speak to.

[Dagata 0]

And at what point vb, do we say that the lack of success is not from former racsim, but rather from a different issue, oh say, government intervention.Maybe when we can see that if some blacks rise to high levels in society, maybe say, make it to president. That the idea that racism is the problem holding people back, maybe at that point it no longer applies?Just a thought. Maybe we should try something else?

[vbnautilus 48]

Maybe when we can see that if some blacks rise to high levels in society, maybe say, make it to president. That the idea that racism is the problem holding people back, maybe at that point it no longer applies?

First, there is no "the problem"; there are clearly a myriad of factors. One factor is most certainly the historical context of slavery and racism. Second, the success of a single individual does not indicate that the group in general suffers no disadvantage from racism. Look at it this way -- if the group were at a real disadvantage from racism, you would still expect a few exceptional individuals to overcome. This argument makes no sense for an additional reason: if Obama's success were evidence that racism does not hold black people back, then his success would also be evidence that any other problem doesn't hold black people back (e.g. "government intervention").

[LongLiveYorke 38]

This argument makes no sense for an additional reason: if Obama's success were evidence that racism does not hold black people back, then his success would also be evidence that any other problem doesn't hold black people back (e.g. "government intervention").

This comment is way too funny and intelligent for this discussion. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks.

[hblask 1]

This argument makes no sense for an additional reason: if Obama's success were evidence that racism does not hold black people back, then his success would also be evidence that any other problem doesn't hold black people back (e.g. "government intervention").

I think this is true. Very little can hold back a determined person willing to give all for a goal.The difference is, some obstacles are more easily removed than others.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kathleen-mcki...fact-checks-snlCNN actually fact checks SNL skit that lampoons Obama. LMAO, no no CNN is not 100% in the tank for Obama.

[akoff 0]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kathleen-mcki...fact-checks-snlCNN actually fact checks SNL skit that lampoons Obama. LMAO, no no CNN is not 100% in the tank for Obama.

he has spent more money, in less time, on nothing then any other President in history...and he is just warming up. Got to give the man his props.

[brvheart 1,752]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/12...words-fox-news/As for Dunn's complaint about Fox News' coverage of the Obama campaign, a study by the Pew Research Center showed that 40 percent of Fox News stories on Obama in the last six weeks of the campaign were negative. Similarly, 40 percent of Fox News' stories on Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, were negative. On CNN, by contrast, there was a 22-point disparity in the percentage of negative stories on Obama (39 percent) and McCain (61 percent). The disparity was even greater at MSNBC, according to Pew, where just 14 percent of Obama stories were negative, compared to a whopping 73 percent of McCain stories -- a spread of 59 points.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/12...words-fox-news/As for Dunn's complaint about Fox News' coverage of the Obama campaign, a study by the Pew Research Center showed that 40 percent of Fox News stories on Obama in the last six weeks of the campaign were negative. Similarly, 40 percent of Fox News' stories on Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, were negative. On CNN, by contrast, there was a 22-point disparity in the percentage of negative stories on Obama (39 percent) and McCain (61 percent). The disparity was even greater at MSNBC, according to Pew, where just 14 percent of Obama stories were negative, compared to a whopping 73 percent of McCain stories -- a spread of 59 points.

So, is unbiased to say that they are exactly equal, or is it unbiased to tell the truth and be honest that one candidate was actually pretty crappy?

[JoeyJoJo 18]

So, is unbiased to say that they are exactly equal, or is it unbiased to tell the truth and be honest that one candidate was actually pretty crappy?

They're not unbiased, they're "balanced."

[85suited 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/12...words-fox-news/As for Dunn's complaint about Fox News' coverage of the Obama campaign, a study by the Pew Research Center showed that 40 percent of Fox News stories on Obama in the last six weeks of the campaign were negative. Similarly, 40 percent of Fox News' stories on Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, were negative. On CNN, by contrast, there was a 22-point disparity in the percentage of negative stories on Obama (39 percent) and McCain (61 percent). The disparity was even greater at MSNBC, according to Pew, where just 14 percent of Obama stories were negative, compared to a whopping 73 percent of McCain stories -- a spread of 59 points.

Can you say "white house enemies list"